It is currently 29 Mar 2024, 14:00

Bolt emergency - any ideas?

This is the place to go with all your issues, questions or handy hints on all things related to motors, electrickery, engineering, metalwork etc...

Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby AJB Temple » 28 Apr 2022, 21:12

My son has brought his car back home from uni on a visit for a couple of weeks. Old BMW 33oi sport inline 6 in v. good nick. He is replacing the wishbones among other things as the ball joints are worn and the car is used for track driving.

We've done one side, but can't get the wishbone off the right side. The nut is heavily rusted on. We've used penetrating oil and got about 4mm freed vertically, but now the bolt is simply turning the articulated rod that goes through the wishbone. So now we are in deep mire as we are committed but stalled. The design is that rotation is prevented by a hex socket at the top, in the centre of the shaft that the nut secures. This is heavily rusted and we can't get a hex key (6mm) in far enough to hold at all. It is completely impossible to get a straight knock down from above, as the crankcase is partially in the way. Awkward access and angles.

It is also difficult to get a map gas blow torch on it, as the engine mounting gaiter (hard rubber) is nearby, as is a bit of pipework.

Spanner access is super difficult anyway - I get a sixth of a turn at each time, and that has to be done with a lump hammer and block of wood. Now frustrated anyway by the centre rotation.

I don't have a nut splitter and have never used one, but can try to source one tomorrow.

Very poor access for getting anything in there to cut through the shaft (easy enough to cut the alloy wishbone off but that won't help ).

I can try loading up the joint with a jack to increase friction. Not convinced it will work.

Am I missing anything?

Thanks, Adrian
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5436
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby DaveL » 28 Apr 2022, 21:44

A quick check, did you use a proper penetrating oil or WD40?
Plusgas A if you can get it is much better than WD40, when I used to rebuild old British bikes I bought it in gallon cans.
Regards,
Dave
My tool kit is almost complete, only a few more to get.
User avatar
DaveL
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1918
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:07
Location: Sudbury, Suffolk
Name: Dave

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby AJB Temple » 28 Apr 2022, 21:53

Yes. Proper plus gas penetrating oil not WD40. We are doing a full soak overnight as well.
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5436
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby sunnybob » 29 Apr 2022, 05:22

Brute force is always good.
Nut splitter, or dremel with diamond cut off wheel if space is really tight.
Do you need to save the threaded part? if not, hacksaw or again, dremel.
my wood projects are here https://pbase.com/sunnybob
User avatar
sunnybob
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2093
Joined: 17 Aug 2020, 10:59
Location: Cyprus
Name:

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby novocaine » 29 Apr 2022, 07:24

If its turned the stuck is corrosion. Impact gun wind it in and out not just out. Mole grips to hold stuff still. G cramp to pull the hex in to the hole. If all else fails, sharp cold chisel.
Carbon fibre is just corduroy for cars.
novocaine
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2560
Joined: 26 Nov 2020, 10:37
Name: Dave

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby AJB Temple » 29 Apr 2022, 08:46

I don't need to save any parts. I think cutting it off may be the only answer. The shaft to which the bolt is attached rotates in the socket. Hence the allen key socket on top to hold it in place. Not enough space to get access for a cold chisel I think, but will have a go. The difficulty is getting enough room to swing a lump hammer. I had to use a long piece of wood on the spanner, plus hammer, to get the nut moving at all. The car is on 4 axle stands plus safety blocks, so is not far off the ground. I wish he had never started this!
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5436
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby chataigner » 29 Apr 2022, 08:48

Nasty problem, all my ideas have already been posted by others above.
You could try sacrificing a virgin ?
Cheers !
Chataigner in Périgord-Limousin National park
http://www.rue-darnet.fr
User avatar
chataigner
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1063
Joined: 23 Jul 2014, 08:02
Location: Périgord-Limousin National Park, SW France
Name: David

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby novocaine » 29 Apr 2022, 08:56

I know how I'd do it, but I'm not sure you have the tooling for it.
I'd stick the tip of the MIG against the end of the bolt, and run a * hot tack till it glow bright red. or I'd weld anouther nut to it, same premise but with something else to weld on. :)
Carbon fibre is just corduroy for cars.
novocaine
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2560
Joined: 26 Nov 2020, 10:37
Name: Dave

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby AJB Temple » 29 Apr 2022, 09:11

It's a 21mm nut. I would imagine the shaft it screws onto is hardened steel, but don't really know. We've got one side off (scrap now) so could have a try on that.
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5436
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby novocaine » 29 Apr 2022, 09:19

AJB Temple wrote:It's a 21mm nut. I would imagine the shaft it screws onto is hardened steel, but don't really know. We've got one side off (scrap now) so could have a try on that.


case hardened possibly, but unlikely to be anything else.

cut the bolt, not the shaft, a die grinder would be best for that, but a dremel will do it with enough time.
Carbon fibre is just corduroy for cars.
novocaine
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2560
Joined: 26 Nov 2020, 10:37
Name: Dave

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby AJB Temple » 29 Apr 2022, 13:55

In the end, success was achieved with a fresh blade from a junior hacksaw. Took 40 minutes to cut through. It wasn't hardened. Cutting the shaft just below the jammed nut was best because the nut had come up just enough to get a blade in. Thanks for the help chaps.

IMG_2869.jpeg
Wishbone removed
(993.69 KiB)


IMG_2871.jpeg
Naughty nut
(725.14 KiB)


Now we're struggling with a bolt on a hard brake line (intended to add new braids) which some numpty has rounded off.
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5436
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby AJB Temple » 29 Apr 2022, 14:00

PS. Thanks Dave. We did think about welding (though I don't have a MIG) but were iffy about the rubber engine mounts just a few mm away. What it needed was a rod welding into the hexagonal socket. Very tricky in the cramped space. When we got the nut off, the hex socket was badly damaged so of no use for its intended purpose.
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5436
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby 9fingers » 29 Apr 2022, 14:00

Mig weld a nut onto the head of the errant bolts. A combination of the heat of the welding and a new hexagon should ensure submission.

Bob
Information on induction motors here
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dBTVXx ... sp=sharing
Email:motors@minchin.org.uk
User avatar
9fingers
Petrified Pine
 
Posts: 10043
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 20:22
Location: Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New Forest
Name: Bob

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby novocaine » 29 Apr 2022, 14:11

if, when you say brake line bolt, you mean the union, then be very very very careful, if you twist the brake line (they are a double flared seat, it's very very easy to do) then you are going to be in a whole heap more * than just a stuck bolt (new hard lines are hard enough to run on a classic car, they are all but impossible on a modernish car).
Carbon fibre is just corduroy for cars.
novocaine
Old Oak
 
Posts: 2560
Joined: 26 Nov 2020, 10:37
Name: Dave

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby AJB Temple » 29 Apr 2022, 14:34

Thanks Dave. I agree and I had already said to my son that this is one that needs to be undone at a proper garage. The other side freed up easily but in this case it didn't and I don't want him stranded with no brakes.
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5436
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby toolsntat » 01 May 2022, 04:19

Just in case this helps in the future, when possible I drill the nut on one of the flat sides or end on (twice is even a option if it's stubborn)
This weakens the nut and heats it up at the same time.
Any attempt at rotating the nut after this generally causes it to break.
Cheers Andy
toolsntat
Sapling
 
Posts: 305
Joined: 04 Apr 2021, 14:32
Location: Leicestershire
Name:

Re: Bolt emergency - any ideas?

Postby AJB Temple » 01 May 2022, 07:53

Thanks Andy.
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5436
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:


Return to Engineering - Electrical/Metalworking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Steve Maskery and 10 guests