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Vintage Wood Machining Books

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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 25 Jan 2021, 23:57

Post amended to add:

Boring, Mortising, and Tenoning by Sydney Lister 1949
Conversion by Sydney Lister 1951

This completes my collection of Sydney Lister books, it took a while to come across a copy of "Conversion" which seems to be a bit rarer than the rest of them.

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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 12 Jun 2021, 12:54

Post amended to add:

Woodworking Machinery for Small Shops by A. Murray Ball, 1923

I've had a later 1937 edition of this book by W.J. Blackmur for some time and I've been keeping an eye out for an original 1923 copy for just as long and I just so happened to come across one. It's a very nice book in near mint condition and has the fold-out pages that are typical with earlier books on the subject, Blackmur's edition did not have these and of course, being a complete revision of the earlier book had much later machinery illustrated than what's seen in the original.

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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 07 Jul 2021, 18:37

Post amended to add:

J Sagar and Co Small Tools and Accessories for Woodworking Machinery Catalogue
Saws: Their Care and Treatment by Harry W. Durham, 1921
Saw-Mills, Their Arrangement and Management by M. Powis Bale, 1883
British Saw Milling Practice by Victor Serry, 1963
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 07 Jul 2021, 20:24

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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby toolsntat » 08 Jul 2021, 00:16

Interesting design on the Whitehill block....
Was fiddling with one of those yesterday but it might be earlier as I don't think it has the outer angle on the clamping part.
Cheers Andy
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 08 Jul 2021, 00:32

toolsntat wrote:Interesting design on the Whitehill block....
Was fiddling with one of those yesterday but it might be earlier as I don't think it has the outer angle on the clamping part.
Cheers Andy


There are a few design variations, you wouldn't happen to have a picture? 8-)
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby toolsntat » 09 Jul 2021, 03:33

Here you go.
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 09 Jul 2021, 07:35

toolsntat wrote:Here you go.


I've got one that looks like that, although in much rougher condition than that! As you say it's probably an earlier version of the one in the catalogue, which has the relief in the cutter clamp as well as three holes around the clamp rather than two.

I'd love to know exactly when these Whitehill blocks came into being, it's hard to find any information about them.
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Vann » 20 Jul 2021, 09:27

Trevanion wrote:Image

Aha. One of these showed up over here a few years back (2017), and for some reason I kept the pikkies.

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I see some minor differences. Anyway, enjoy.

Cheers, Vann.
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 23 Jul 2021, 22:04

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Oliver Woodworking Machinery Catalogue No 22, 1923
W.M. Ridgway & Sons Woodworking Tools for Machine Use Catalogue, 1960
Patents for Inventions, Abridgements of Specifications, Class 145 Woodcutting (Other Than Sawing) 1921-25
Patents for Inventions, Abridgements of Specifications, Class 145 Woodworking (Including Sawing) 1921-25
Patents for Inventions, Abridgements of Specifications, Class 145 Woodcutting(Other Than Sawing) 1926-30
Patents for Inventions, Abridgements of Specifications, Class 145 Woodworking (Including Sawing) 1926-30
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 24 Jul 2021, 12:17

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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 24 Jul 2021, 12:26

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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 24 Jul 2021, 12:32

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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby AndyT » 24 Jul 2021, 12:57

There's a well-known principle among collectors that if you post about your specialist collection "among friends" and somebody else says something appreciative, you'll feel quite normal. ;) It works for me, and I think this fascinating thread is proof of it in action. No eBay listing or used book seller is safe from the reach of the Antlered One!

I'll pass over the patent summaries but pause on that appalling (by modern standards) ad from Sanderson Brothers & Newbould. Ok, it's a reminder of how ordinary racism was embedded in mainstream thinking, but it brought me up short. I've seen even worse stuff from Sheffield makers somewhere but can't find it at the moment.

In an effort to take the taste away, I can offer the information - from Simon Barley's British Saws and Saw Makers - that from the 1930s onwards Sanderson's biggest markets were in India and the Caribbean, so presumably they must have learned to moderate their ads by then.
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 24 Jul 2021, 16:23

AndyT wrote:I'll pass over the patent summaries but pause on that appalling (by modern standards) ad from Sanderson Brothers & Newbould. Ok, it's a reminder of how ordinary racism was embedded in mainstream thinking, but it brought me up short. I've seen even worse stuff from Sheffield makers somewhere but can't find it at the moment.

In an effort to take the taste away, I can offer the information - from Simon Barley's British Saws and Saw Makers - that from the 1930s onwards Sanderson's biggest markets were in India and the Caribbean, so presumably they must have learned to moderate their ads by then.


I did think twice about putting that particular picture up, for obvious reasons, but I thought it is a hundred-year-old book and while it isn't pleasant it is still history nonetheless.
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby AndyT » 24 Jul 2021, 17:02

I was also rather struck by this image:

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I know that old promo material sometimes applied a teeny bit of artistic licence and made premises seem a trifle larger than they were, but that's an impressive works.

I've never noticed it when visiting Rochdale, but I think that this view from Google Earth shows more or less the same spot, with the red brick tower remaining as a little remnant of what there used to be. And maybe those older looking long sheds between Trufab and Total Smart Solutions.

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A view from lower down confirms it used to be S ROBINS N AND SON, but it's a Howdens now.

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Not quite so impressive somehow...
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 21 Aug 2021, 17:42

AndyT wrote:I know that old promo material sometimes applied a teeny bit of artistic licence and made premises seem a trifle larger than they were, but that's an impressive works.

I've never noticed it when visiting Rochdale, but I think that this view from Google Earth shows more or less the same spot, with the red brick tower remaining as a little remnant of what there used to be. And maybe those older looking long sheds between Trufab and Total Smart Solutions.

robinsons tower.png


A view from lower down confirms it used to be S ROBINS N AND SON, but it's a Howdens now.

howdens.png


Not quite so impressive somehow...


I had a chat with someone a while back who lives near the old Sagar and Dominion factories in Halifax and used to play there when he was a kid, he showed me photos of the Sagar factory now which was just a wall remaining (although the foundry was still operating across the street) and the Dominion factory is now a carpet shop. A real shame considering these woodworking industries were giants in their time and they could afford the most expensive office spaces in London.
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 21 Aug 2021, 19:17

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The Hanchett Saw and Knife Fitting Manual 7th Edition 1950
Wood Planing Knives, Hints on Cutting Bevels and Grinding by Drabble and Sanderson Ltd 1936
Instructions for Grinding Router Cutters No 600/2 by Wadkin Ltd (Not sure of age, 1960-ish?)
Your Guide to Good Sawing with Planet Wide Bandsaws by H.Pickles and Son (Saws) Ltd (Not sure of age)
Woodworking Machines in Four Languages by H.E. Horten 1968 (This book is a language dictionary for finding out specific words in relation to woodworking machinery, I.E. Bandsaw, Bandsaege, Scie A Ruban, Sierra De Cinta...)
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 09 Dec 2021, 21:59

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How to Tend Cutters, Knives, and Saws for Machine Woodworkers and Sawmill Owners By W.J. Blackmur, 1917
Dening & Co Woodworking Machinery Chard Catalogue, 1927
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 13 Jan 2022, 20:44

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Principles of Machine Woodworking Complete One Volume by A.H.Haycock 1961

The holy grail of holy grails, full sets of the original 5 volumes are pretty rare but these “complete” books are very scarce, with this being the only one I’ve ever seen for sale (for an absolute bargain). I’m guessing they had a very short printing run being this uncommon, I wonder just how many copies are out there? Of course, it’s absolutely packed with great information for the machine woodworker and at just a hair under 2 1/2” thick, there’s plenty of it.

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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby AndyT » 13 Jan 2022, 20:56

If I ever come across any obscure old books on wood machining, I check this thread to see if you haven't already got it.

No hits yet - sorry! But you do keep making it harder...
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 13 Jan 2022, 21:07

AndyT wrote:If I ever come across any obscure old books on wood machining, I check this thread to see if you haven't already got it.

No hits yet - sorry! But you do keep making it harder...


It's getting harder for me too! It was quite fun getting to this point, but now finding stuff I don't already have is becoming a challenge. Now that my collection is a bit of a public thing especially with Instagram I get a few people alerting me to things, for which I'm very grateful :D

I'd love to find copies of "Modern Shaper Practice" and "Machine Molder Practice" by W.H. Rohr, or "The Woodworking Shaper" by C.V. Christie, but they are rather rare.
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby AndyT » 13 Jan 2022, 21:13

Ok!

If you need another copy of Modern Mechanical Saw Practice, 1947, by J Raymond Foyster, I've got one here you're welcome to. Or anyone else if not!
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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby Trevanion » 31 Mar 2022, 22:02

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C.D. Monninger Catalogue 1947
Pickles Ransome Woodworking Machinery Catalogue Circa 1930s/40s

Pickles is a bit of an unusual manufacturer, they seemingly made a lot of machinery for a long period of time but examples found in the wild are relatively rare compared to other manufacturers such as Wadkin or Robinson. This catalogue is obviously after Pickles bought A. Ransome Woodworking Machinery (Whose son, Stafford Ransome, wrote two of the books in my collection) in 1930, but I'm unsure of an exact date for it, judging by some of the quite archaic machines listed even by 1930 standards I'm guessing it was quite soon after the buyout.

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A working example of this VERY heavy-duty hollow chisel morticer/borer can be seen in the Stanley Ferry Lock Gate Workshop, it would be interesting to know if there are any more.

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Re: Vintage Wood Machining Books

Postby AndyT » 01 Apr 2022, 08:31

More good stuff.

I've been trying to think of any other place where the same scale of work is done, to need a mortiser on that scale.

The Canal and River Trust still have one other similar workshop in the Midlands, at Bradley, near Bilston.

But I don't know of any more large scale timber work of this sort being done anywhere. And if the machines last 90+ years, demand is definitely going to be on the low side... Is there any contemporary maker offering kit like that? The world must need at least one, but if other countries are like the UK it's possible that they have all closed down.
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