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Bandsaw

Here's the place to talk about all your table saws, bandsaws, routers and dust extractors. In fact anything that makes noise and uses electrickery.

Re: Bandsaw

Postby Cabinetman » 05 Jul 2022, 18:45

Dr.Al wrote:
Cabinetman wrote:Sorry Dr Al, impossible for me to measure the footprint of my Startrite as it’s 3000 miles away lol. But don’t forget that they aren’t straight up and down, the table sticks out quite a bit further. Ian


Thanks for the thought anyway Ian. Yes, I'd spotted that the table sticks out. I'm hoping that the top of the table is below the bottom of my bench as that might allow it to sit slightly under the bench when not in use. That would make a big difference to the space taken up by the saw.


Sorry very much doubt that’s going to be the case, unless you have an extremely high bench! The table on the bandsaw is just between belly button and heart level?
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Dr.Al » 05 Jul 2022, 18:57

Cabinetman wrote:
Dr.Al wrote:
Cabinetman wrote:Sorry Dr Al, impossible for me to measure the footprint of my Startrite as it’s 3000 miles away lol. But don’t forget that they aren’t straight up and down, the table sticks out quite a bit further. Ian


Thanks for the thought anyway Ian. Yes, I'd spotted that the table sticks out. I'm hoping that the top of the table is below the bottom of my bench as that might allow it to sit slightly under the bench when not in use. That would make a big difference to the space taken up by the saw.


Sorry very much doubt that’s going to be the case, unless you have an extremely high bench! The table on the bandsaw is just between belly button and heart level?


That depends how tall you are though! The underside of my bench top is about 940 mm from the ground; the only point of reference I have at the moment is the spec sheet for the Record BS400, which says the table is 900 mm from the ground, so that one should fit under my bench. I'm optimistically hoping the same might be true for the 352.
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby AJB Temple » 05 Jul 2022, 19:29

The table will be much higher than your bench Dr. Al unless you have a very high bench.
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Pete Maddex » 05 Jul 2022, 19:58

Dr.Al wrote:
Pete Maddex wrote:I have a 352 and it’s virtually indestructible massively strong and also simple, no frills just solid engineering.
The only thing I have changed is roller bearing blade guides instead of the blocks, that cost under a tenner.
Highly recommend saw.

Pete


That's a great recommendation Pete, thank you. I don't suppose you'd be willing to measure it for me would you?


I measured it, but then I thought you might be more interested in the size of the bandsaw.

Height 1800mm
Width including table 670mm
Depth including table 680mm
Table height 1010mm
Table thickness 40mm.
I wheeled mine out on a sacktruck then onto a van, they do have small wheels and a handle to move them about with but I would only risk that on a flat smooth surface.

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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Dr.Al » 05 Jul 2022, 20:22

Pete Maddex wrote:
Dr.Al wrote:
Pete Maddex wrote:I have a 352 and it’s virtually indestructible massively strong and also simple, no frills just solid engineering.
The only thing I have changed is roller bearing blade guides instead of the blocks, that cost under a tenner.
Highly recommend saw.

Pete


That's a great recommendation Pete, thank you. I don't suppose you'd be willing to measure it for me would you?


I measured it, but then I thought you might be more interested in the size of the bandsaw.

Height 1800mm
Width including table 670mm
Depth including table 680mm
Table height 1010mm
Table thickness 40mm.
I wheeled mine out on a sacktruck then onto a van, they do have small wheels and a handle to move them about with but I would only risk that on a flat smooth surface.

Pete


Thanks Pete, that's really useful. It won't go under the bench (although it's at about the same height as my bench, so the positive thing is that my bench might work as a good out-feed table!). I'll do a bit more measuring tomorrow night & see whether I think there's any chance at all. My gut feel is that it might just fit: the BS400 listed one dimension as 850mm and that was worrying me a lot.

It's good to hear that they can be moved with something as simple as a sack truck. I'd been imagining much more of a challenge than that!
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Pete Maddex » 05 Jul 2022, 20:33

Hi Al

I did use one of these and a ratchet strap just to make sure.
https://www.barriersdirect.co.uk/workpl ... 1UQAvD_BwE

But a normal one works as well, mine sits on a mobile base made from 18mm birch ply, bigger then the base with castors on so it moves round easily.

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Re: Bandsaw

Postby BucksDad » 06 Jul 2022, 07:17

Dr. Al - you haven't mentioned it but if you didn't notice, the Startrite is 3phase so you will also need to get a VFD so a bit more added cost.

Also isn't the height governed mainly by the height of the stand? With your skills I've no doubt you could shorten the height of the stand so the table could fit under your bench, just have to think about ergonomics for use
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Dr.Al » 06 Jul 2022, 07:23

BucksDad wrote:Dr. Al - you haven't mentioned it but if you didn't notice, the Startrite is 3phase so you will also need to get a VFD so a bit more added cost


Thanks James. I had noticed; I'm not too concerned about that to be honest. I suspect that (if it's anything like metalworking lathes) 3 phases machines will be cheaper than single phase ones and the difference is likely to be more than the cost of an inverter.
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby 9fingers » 06 Jul 2022, 07:55

Dr Al
Someone who lurks here but seems reluctant to join fully and post has sent me the following
“Can you tell Dr Al that the new 352 is 1140mm from floor to table with 50mm castors on and that the top can be unbolted from the base so that it can be put on a new base or as he can weld just cut it down. In this respect the base to table height is 550.

I have no idea whether this can be done with the old 352 easily.

I transported it back from Scott and Sargents in the back of a Yaris Verso and with the cast iron table romoved and the doors taken off (lift off) it can be manhandled fairly easily


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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Dr.Al » 06 Jul 2022, 08:03

9fingers wrote:Dr Al
Someone who lurks here but seems reluctant to join fully and post has sent me the following
“Can you tell Dr Al that the new 352 is 1140mm from floor to table with 50mm castors on and that the top can be unbolted from the base so that it can be put on a new base or as he can weld just cut it down. In this respect the base to table height is 550.

I have no idea whether this can be done with the old 352 easily.

I transported it back from Scott and Sargents in the back of a Yaris Verso and with the cast iron table romoved and the doors taken off (lift off) it can be manhandled fairly easily


Bob


Thank you for passing that on Bob: very, very interesting indeed. Please can you pass on my thanks to the anonymous lurker and my hope that they join our community as soon as they're ready - I have no doubt they would be made welcome and would have a lot to offer.

I'm rather impressed that it can be moved around as easily as that. Definitely good news!
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Rezi » 06 Jul 2022, 09:03

It's hard to give recommendations as most of us will have experience with only one or two bandsaws.
I've only owned one and it is a Record Power 500 which, when I bought it, went in my 6' x 10' shed! It came with wheel kit and I found it fairly easy to move around on that. Being a big bandsaw it has plenty of power, large capacity and weighs about 170kg and can take a 25mm blade although I've never gone above 19mm for the tensioning reasons stated by others above.
The only negatives I can say about it are that the power switch and cable are positioned on the back which doesn't work when it is positioned against a wall. I had to remove the switch housing and mount it on the wall.
Dust extraction is a pointless effort as most of it remains inside the machine.
Changing the blade can be awkward as the doors need to be opened wide for access.
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Woodbloke » 06 Jul 2022, 10:51

Rezi wrote:Dust extraction is a pointless effort as most of it remains inside the machine.
Changing the blade can be awkward as the doors need to be opened wide for access.

I seem to recollect that a certain Steve M of this parish made a very tidy mod for bandsaws to enable virtually all the dust to be collected. The door issue is a common one as most machines need to be opened completely to change the blade - Rob
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Malc2098 » 07 Jul 2022, 09:55

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Re: Bandsaw

Postby AJB Temple » 07 Jul 2022, 12:51

Interesting to look at the pricing structures for say a new 14" bandsaw. Yandles site ranges from about £600 for Charnwood, to circa £2k for Laguna, with Record in the middle somewhere. Basically a bandsaw is pretty simple: just two crowned wheels to hold a blade, and a motor. Cast iron tables. Mostly they have basic guides, unless to pay extra for ceramic. I wonder where the value difference is?
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Steve Maskery » 07 Jul 2022, 14:48

Rezi wrote:Dust extraction is a pointless effort as most of it remains inside the machine.

You are obviously not watching the right videos, Rezi! :)
Rezi wrote:I seem to recollect that a certain Steve M of this parish made a very tidy mod for bandsaws to enable virtually all the dust to be collected.

Indeed, thank you Rob.
https://youtu.be/sAEr8oZfJYA
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Dr.Al » 07 Jul 2022, 14:55

Steve Maskery wrote:
Rezi wrote:Dust extraction is a pointless effort as most of it remains inside the machine.

You are obviously not watching the right videos, Rezi! :)
Rezi wrote:I seem to recollect that a certain Steve M of this parish made a very tidy mod for bandsaws to enable virtually all the dust to be collected.

Indeed, thank you Rob.
https://youtu.be/sAEr8oZfJYA


Thanks Steve: added to my watch later list (it feels like it might be one to watch AFTER buying a bandsaw rather than before!).

I watched your "WE4 Bandsaw Essentials" video last night. I'd almost always prefer to read something to learn rather than watching a video, but I thought it was worth a punt and I'm glad I did: it's very well explained and I learned a lot that will definitely be very useful (once I get the bandsaw of course!)
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Steve Maskery » 07 Jul 2022, 14:58

Dr.Al wrote:
I watched your "WE4 Bandsaw Essentials" video last night. I'd almost always prefer to read something to learn rather than watching a video, but I thought it was worth a punt and I'm glad I did: it's very well explained and I learned a lot that will definitely be very useful (once I get the bandsaw of course!)


Thanks for that, Al. I like having happy customers! :)
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby RogerS » 07 Jul 2022, 15:33

AJB Temple wrote:Interesting to look at the pricing structures for say a new 14" bandsaw. Yandles site ranges from about £600 for Charnwood, to circa £2k for Laguna, with Record in the middle somewhere. Basically a bandsaw is pretty simple: just two crowned wheels to hold a blade, and a motor. Cast iron tables. Mostly they have basic guides, unless to pay extra for ceramic. I wonder where the value difference is?


That's not strictly true. For example,

    the bandsaw wheels ....rubber or urethane?

    Motor ? Power the same between machines ?

    Ease of setting up. Is the factory set-up correct ?

    How easy it is to change blades and make subsequent line-up adjustments? There can be a world of difference between machines.

    But most important of all, how solid is the frame and does it flex when you try to apply tension for wider blades
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby AJB Temple » 07 Jul 2022, 16:03

I accept all that of course Roger. But the price differences are immense. The Laguna looks pretty decent, especially the 18" one at around £2,700. Same kind of money as the MiniMax. I wish I had gone for an 18" 3hp saw, but I didn't have the headroom in my workshop without altering the ceiling.

Very little risk I think with a decent brand used one.

I agree with Steve M about extraction. Mine has a cyclone extractor attached to it and there is practically no dust in the machine or even on the table. Works very well. Could be improved even more with a down hose above the work.
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby RogerS » 09 Jul 2022, 07:58

Looking at a thread on FOG prompts a few more factors to consider.

    Weight of the wheels.....inertia is your friend for a smooth cut

    Size of table

    Max cutting height and width

    After-sales service and spares availability.
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Dr.Al » 11 Jul 2022, 14:18

Hmmm... back to the drawing board I think.

I just spoke to Lee from ALT Saws and Spares. The Startrite 352 listed on his website sold ages ago (but he didn't update the website :( ). However, having chatted to him, he thinks that a 352 wouldn't suit me very well as the motor is a bit underpowered for resawing wide boards (which is the main thing I want it for).

I had noticed that the 352 has a 1 hp (750 W) motor vs the 1.5 kW of the Record BS400 and wondered whether it would be an issue. It sounds like it probably will. On the bright side, perhaps I don't need to be so annoyed that all the Startrite 352s on the market seem to be 150+ miles away :lol:

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Re: Bandsaw

Postby 9fingers » 11 Jul 2022, 14:31

Fitting a larger motor to the right machine would be easy enough for a man of your skills dr Al.
Choose something with a beefy frame to be able to tension a 1/2 - 5/8” blade and an overall size comfortable in your workshop. Sounds like you don’t need a huge throat just a decent depth of cut.

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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Dr.Al » 11 Jul 2022, 14:45

9fingers wrote:Fitting a larger motor to the right machine would be easy enough for a man of your skills dr Al.
Choose something with a beefy frame to be able to tension a 1/2 - 5/8” blade and an overall size comfortable in your workshop. Sounds like you don’t need a huge throat just a decent depth of cut.

Bob


Hmm, yes I guess that's true. Are there likely to be other issues (e.g. motor being two powerful for the machine in some way I haven't thought of yet) though?

It does, of course, make it a bit more complicated than just buying one and using it (although finding one to buy is proving to be enough of a challenge anyway!).

As an aside, in what way would I be likely to regret a more modern machine like a Record BS400? I get that with something like an engineering lathe, the quality of manufacturer inherent in a lot of older machines makes a big difference, but I don't know enough about bandsaws to know what the likely disadvantages of something like the BS400 would be. The reason I'm asking about that specific model is that there's a second hand BS400 on ebay in Hereford and I've heard of another potential second hand one in Brum, so there may be some good options for this machine if it's likely to be any good. If I'm going to quickly regret buying modern, then I'd obviously like to know that before making the mistake, but I'm still not clear on what the problems are likely to be (and whether they would be resolvable).
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Re: Bandsaw

Postby 9fingers » 11 Jul 2022, 16:21

I've no experience of Record power stuff to offer I'm afraid.
I have a brick outhouse designed early Startrite three wheeler 18-S-1 modified for both wood and steel with a revised belt drive and an inverter driving a 6 pole 1.1hp motor
Only downside is that it could do with a greater depth of cut as it only offers about 7".

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Re: Bandsaw

Postby Lurker » 11 Jul 2022, 17:16

I don't understand what you mean by re sawing wide boards.

The throat needs considering and if it's that wide, a track saw is a better tool anyway.
Board thickness up to about 150mm is down to the tpi and feed rate.

A saw that has the footprint that you desire and most of us have is going to struggle with a blade more than 1/2" . IMHO , It's nothing to do with the motor size as the machine ought to be fairly low torque, unless you are shoving the wood through too fast against a blunt blade.
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