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Mike's ext'n & renovation (sunroom stone floor & plinth)

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Mike's extension & renovation (kitchen completion)

Postby Mike G » 13 Oct 2021, 20:28

NickM wrote:......What didn’t you like about the narrow pin dovetails? I wonder if they’re better suited to half blind dovetails (eg drawers) where you won’t see the “point” of the pins....


That's pretty much it. On the front, there is nothing to show that there are any dovetails there if you are more than a couple of feet away. That little point of the pin is literally one kerf wide, and so is lost in the vast expanse of oak on the fascia. I'd maybe think about using them on a box, but I consider the use of them this time to be a lesson learnt.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (kitchen completion)

Postby Mike G » 13 Oct 2021, 20:34

the bear wrote:.....Whats confusing me though is I don't understand how you store bicycles in it ;)

Mark


:lol: :lol: I must post an update on the bike shed, which is nearing completion. It has some security features built in which I won't be posting, so there'll be only sparse WIP photos. I'm at that time of year where I have an indoor and an outdoor job running at the same time in case the weather intervenes, so it can take a little longer to finish any one job.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (kitchen completion)

Postby Mike G » 13 Oct 2021, 20:38

Andyp wrote:..... Now the kitchen is finished can you start work on the boat, please. :).....


Simmer, Andy! :) I've got quite a list to get to before I start the boat, and probably a hip operation too. Upcoming highlights include oak ledged and boarded doors (cinch nailed) for upstairs rooms, a workstation for my office, a green oak framed sunroom on the back of the house, a huge dining table and 10 chairs, and various more minor projects. Then, and only then, can I start the boat.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (kitchen completion)

Postby Pete Maddex » 14 Oct 2021, 13:38

Let’s hope the rising sea levels don’t move the boat project up the list!


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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (kitchen completion)

Postby kirkpoore1 » 14 Oct 2021, 18:29

Excellent work as always, Mike. I do have a question though:
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Wouldn't this be considered more a corbel than a bracket? Or are they interchangeable in this instance?

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (kitchen completion)

Postby Mike G » 14 Oct 2021, 18:46

That's a good question, Kirk. I think the best way to look at it is to think of a corbel as a category of bracket, (other than in the case of coursed masonry where one course overhangs the one below.......also a corbel but not bracket). It could well be said that this is a corbel, but it's also a bracket.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (kitchen completion)

Postby Phil » 17 Oct 2021, 07:04

Very nice Mike! 8-)

Agree on the vent box, plastic looks cheap. Our extractor vents up a pipe into the roof void into a 4m x 100mm long pipe with the little plastic box with louvres that open when blowing and close when stopped.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby Mike G » 25 Oct 2021, 14:01

I made and fitted an oak ledge and boarded door to one of the spare bedrooms:

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Image

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As with all my internal doors here, the centrral board is shaped to have a peak in the middle, and go down to half thickness at the edges where it laps with a rebate in the outer boards.

My wife swore that this must have been planned. It wasn't. This is a pure fluke:

Image

Imagine how annoying it would have been if the floor boards and door boards had been half an inch from lining up! It was just an incredible coincidence that they line up to the millimetre.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby AndyT » 25 Oct 2021, 14:28

Is that one of those cases where the door has to be square, so as to not look weird, and so it can swing free of a floor that slopes up on the hinge side?

Asking for a friend, who has some trapezoidal doors in his house... ;)
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby Mike G » 25 Oct 2021, 14:37

Yes, the floor is all over the place. I wouldn't know if the door is square at the bottom, because I just kept cutting and planing until it cleared everything. There isn't a straight edge on the door, so I set out the ledges using the inner board edges as a reference.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby AJB Temple » 25 Oct 2021, 14:59

Faced with a similar issue here on the crooked upstairs structure, I put a threshold across the floor of one bedroom suite because I could not live with the aesthetics of a variable gap under the door. Obviously this potentially creates a slight trip hazard so I chamfered the edges of the threshold.

Interesting that you have fixed the hinges to the ledges - I was under the impression that this was not normal practice, but I can't remember why off hand. I did mine off the ledges:

IMG_2270.jpeg
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby AJB Temple » 25 Oct 2021, 15:00

Annoying picture rotation, sorry, despite me doing all the turn it around malarky before selecting it.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby 9fingers » 25 Oct 2021, 15:14

AJB Temple wrote:Annoying picture rotation, sorry, despite me doing all the turn it around malarky before selecting it.


Adrian, Picture rotation control is easy if your use this method which I've never known to fail.

Display your photo on screen rotating if needed.
Take a screen capture editing the borders if you wish.
Save as a new file.
Upload this new file to the forum and I'll be very surprised if it fails.

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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby AJB Temple » 25 Oct 2021, 15:46

Indeed Bob and thank you. Sadly, as I've said before I regard life as too short to faff around. Hence I don't post WIP threads or many pictures and this will persist until we get drag and drop directly from OSX Photos. Not pressuring Mark or anyone, it's just my personal choice.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby Mike G » 25 Oct 2021, 16:19

AJB Temple wrote:.....Interesting that you have fixed the hinges to the ledges - I was under the impression that this was not normal practice, but I can't remember why off hand....


You see both ways done on old doors, but if the hinges are on the ledges then the latch needs to be mounted on a block to bring it out flush with the frame.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby AJB Temple » 25 Oct 2021, 16:39

Yep. I see that. I thought I had seen this as guidance on the Suffolk Latch Co web site (I think we get our door furniture from the same place as I recall) but I had a gander and couldn't find it.

Oddly enough, on that door I pictured, which leads out of the inner hallway and is not on its side in real life, the door creaks really loudly like a haunted house whenever it is opened or closed. I've oiled the hinges but it makes no difference. My wife keep telling me to fix it, but I feel it adds character.

Interesting that you didn't colour the flood boards in to match the room they lead into.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby Mike G » 25 Oct 2021, 17:35

AJB Temple wrote:.........Interesting that you didn't colour the flood boards in to match the room they lead into.


I sort of did to start with, but they've returned to an oak colour. Trying to make new oak boards look like 700 year old elm boards is a losing battle to start with, and I'm happy to have the new show as different from the old. However, I did aim for something a little closer to the dark elm colour.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby pitch pine » 26 Oct 2021, 10:34

Nice door Mike. Do you always make these without braces or would you add a brace (or two) if the door was over a certain width? I can see that to keep it rigid you have used pairs of nails in the two outer boards and it looks like just a central nail in the middle board to allow for expansion/contraction. Is that something you see on old doors?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby Mike G » 26 Oct 2021, 14:07

Braces are for shed doors, not for in a house. This is the traditional style in old cottages, pubs and houses. I've never seen a braced one, and they almost always have 4 ledges. The ledges are slender little things normally, and not square edged. As for the nails.......well, old doors used more nails than I have, but I have also used glue (in the middle of the middle board, and on the outside edges of the outer boards), and I have set a de-headed nail into the edges of each of the boards, to prevent one dropping in relation to another. Old doors allowed for expansion and contraction just by the flexibility of nails, but we can be a bit more sophisticated than that, I reckon. The inner pair of nails on the outer boards have a deep countersink both on the boards and on the ledges (in the hidden faces), giving lots of room for flexibility, so I am confident that the outer dimensions of the door will stay the same no matter what the humidity levels are.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby fiveeyes » 26 Oct 2021, 14:57

Door looks good, for sure. A couple of questions.
1. is the hardware, clinched nails?
2. did you make the side table?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby Mike G » 26 Oct 2021, 15:25

The cinched nails are Vivierre nails from France. The hardware is from the Suffolk Latch Company of Clare in Suffolk. I had a little whinge to the boss about how flat the hinges are these days, but the latches are nice.

Yes, I made the side table. I got a few things wrong on that pair of tables.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby pitch pine » 26 Oct 2021, 18:28

"Braces are for shed doors, not for in a house."

So does that mean they are seen as unrefined and too rustic for inside a house? I am surprised that you don't need braces when you get up to a certain width of door just with ledges, but i haven't made anything with your methods.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby Mike G » 26 Oct 2021, 19:44

No seriously, they're not necessary with a properly made door. I've got a downstairs loo door which is over 900mm wide built this way. It hasn't moved a millimetre and has been up for 3 or 4 years. It's a very modern thing to put ledged and braced doors into houses, and they're often soft wood of dodgy heritage and dryness, pinned with brads from a nail gun. This is a case where the 1970s renovation aesthetic has somehow crept into people's mind as the authentic way things were done.

One thing which many (if not most) old ledge and boarded doors feature is a horizontal board nailed on to the bottom of the door, sometimes with the aid of a couple of vertical battens. This is a repair because of the bottom of the door rotting off. Some old houses had floors of rolled mud and just with straw or weeds strewn over them, so doors and any furniture would rot off at the bottom. Posher houses had more robust floors, but the doors still rotted off because of all the floor mopping over the centuries. This feature is a step too far for me. I've never copied it.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby AJB Temple » 26 Oct 2021, 20:20

I agree with Mike. I have had some involvement with a historic building near where I live, parts of which date back to circa 1400. Most of the doors in the oldest parts are oak or elm ledged. None are braced. I will take some photos next time I'm there. No idea how old they are, but at least 300 years I would think. Very wide planks. They seem to be hanging together OK. Plenty of examples at the Weald and Downland museum too.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (ledge & boarded door)

Postby MattS » 29 Oct 2021, 14:54

I was at the Weald and Downland museum a couple of weekends ago, first time since I was a kid! I thought of Mike when I was there as I was admiring some of the internal doors, particularly ones with wooden latches... you weren't tempted to go down that route? No idea on what is historically correct for your house put they did feel nice in wood.
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