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Mike's ext'n & renovation (sunroom stone floor & plinth)

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Alf » 06 May 2021, 19:54

Looks good, Mike.

Mike G wrote:That last image shows black marks left by the interaction of tannins in the wood and the cast iron sole of a plane. Whereas my golden rule with furniture making is to finish with a blade if you possibly can, with green oak you can see why that isn't always a great idea.


In my best Jehovah's Witness manner, can I ask whether you've considered letting wooden planes into your life...?
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Mike G » 06 May 2021, 20:07

I have, Alf (care of Andy T of this parish), but the two I've got are both too big for this task at 22"+. One I've converted to a scrub plane anyway as it had a really big mouth. I have made a shelf for wooden planes above my bench, and there is room of 4 or 5 more, so I am expecting to increase my collection. If I had a little coffin smoother it would probably have done this job nicely.....but it's not impossible that even a wooden plane would leave some blue-black marks, simply from the blade reacting with the wet oak.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Mike G » 06 May 2021, 20:11

AJB Temple wrote:and you criticised my totem pole..... :D


I hope not. I was rather more interested in what it was holding up.

Nice design. Dare to be different.


Thanks. Yes, it's not standard or common, but I have seen the odd old building with something akin to this detail. One in particular used this to support a scarf, so it would have some practical benefit in the right circumstance.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Andyp » 07 May 2021, 06:42

Mike G wrote:I have, Alf (care of Andy T of this parish), but the two I've got are both too big for this task at 22"+. One I've converted to a scrub plane anyway as it had a really big mouth. I have made a shelf for wooden planes above my bench, and there is room of 4 or 5 more, so I am expecting to increase my collection. If I had a little coffin smoother it would probably have done this job nicely.....but it's not impossible that even a wooden plane would leave some blue-black marks, simply from the blade reacting with the wet oak.


With the fashion in the kitchen for ceramic knives I am surprised that there does not seem to be a ceramic plane blade on the market, yet.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Mike G » 07 May 2021, 06:52

Oh god, can you imagine the sharpening threads were that ever to come to pass!
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Alf » 07 May 2021, 07:57

If your edge is sufficiently sharp the slicing action at atomic level will see the wood part before the steel blade actually touches it. At least that's what I think I read somewhere.

Anyway, clearly if even the iron touching the wood is a problem, you're aiming for a level of finish way beyond what I, in my ignorance, associate with either green woodworking or garages, Mike. Can't help thinking it's going to be the devil of a job when you get to the french polishing though... ;)
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby NickM » 07 May 2021, 08:13

It will look fantastic Mike. I love the way you use your architectural skills to come up with a beautiful design and then turn it into reality with your own hands. It's really very impressive.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Mike G » 07 May 2021, 08:23

Alf wrote:.....Anyway, clearly if even the iron touching the wood is a problem, you're aiming for a level of finish way beyond what I, in my ignorance, associate with either green woodworking or garages, Mike. Can't help thinking it's going to be the devil of a job when you get to the french polishing though... ;)


:lol: :lol:

I was just speculating on the cutting iron/ wood interface over-reaction issue, Alf, but based on what I see as a result of chiselling, I think there might be something in it.

I thought that I might eschew the traditional french polishing idea in protest at the blockade of St Heliers, and this time just go for a sun-and-rain -based greying effect, with the bonus of a brown smudge on the ground below. It's a slower but more long lasting finish, I find, but one that I am getting close to mastering. ;) :lol:
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Mike G » 07 May 2021, 08:24

NickM wrote:It will look fantastic Mike. I love the way you use your architectural skills to come up with a beautiful design and then turn it into reality with your own hands. It's really very impressive.


Thanks Nick. Much appreciated.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Cabinetman » 07 May 2021, 08:47

I always find it very satisfying to work on large timber like that, I think it’s the way the mass of the timber absorbs the energy as you work it particularly with a chisel and mallet. Looking very good.
If you’re worried about the black marks showing Mike I have a couple of bottles of pure Tannin to spare, it will send it all a lovely dark blue black colour. Ian
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Alasdair » 07 May 2021, 13:37

This looks fantastic Mike, its not a type of construction I have come across mush in the West of Scotland.

:text-bravo:
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Mike G » 07 May 2021, 16:42

Alasdair wrote:This looks fantastic Mike, its not a type of construction I have come across mush in the West of Scotland.

:text-bravo:


I did a building in the Orkneys a few years back, and it blew over TWICE in the middle of construction. It ended up being built behind temporary earth berms to shelter it. That's why you don't see this sort of structure much in Scotland! :)
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby AJB Temple » 07 May 2021, 16:58

You could have done with an architect there Mike. 8-)
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby AJB Temple » 07 May 2021, 16:59

I've seen the aftermath of wind taking a roof off a DIY barn conversion. Was over 20 years ago but was dramatic and expensive. Nature has amazing power at times.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Mike G » 07 May 2021, 19:06

Given it's going to rain all day tomorrow, I swapped my Friday and Saturday around.....so outside all day today, and drawing all day tomorrow. So, I have some progress to report. I grabbed one of the 200 x 200s off the pile, and started cleaning it up. However, after doing 2 faces I came across this:

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So that got set on one side, and will be replaced. I very carefully stipulated that there was to be no sap whatsoever in any of the oak. The chap who supllied it was perfectly OK with replacing it.

So, I moved on to the next one, and it cleaned up nicely. Now, I know Rob likes a nice bit of pippy oak, so here is a shot of the show face of my central garage post:

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Working on the top end first. It's not often you set out a bridle (actually it's two tenons) with a 70mm gap. That's beyond most mortise gauges:

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That's where a proper rip saw really comes into its own. A hardpoint half-rip-half-cross-cut would clog up horribly in this wet wood. Four TPI eats it for breakfast. Nonetheless, I sawed 3 or 4mm inside the lines, as controllability of both a circular saw and a rip saw isn't up to the standrard required for the finished faces of joint work. Take a look at the off-cut in the next photo, on the ground below the workpiece. You can see the saw wandered miles off track on the underside, when I had assumed it was just following along the circular saw kerf:

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I did the accurate stuff with a chisel. There are times when I really wish I had a long 2" chisel, or a slick:

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It fits!! First time, too:

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As always with joints, get the shoulders right and you are almost home. The rest is secondary. So I fetched a long tenon saw (the one with the more suitable tooth count is simply too short):

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The rest is standard sawing and chiselling, and the result, after chamfering, are a pair of tenons straddling the gap for the cross piece:

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They fitted first time too. A lot of that is down to having really square stock to work with:

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This is the top end of the post fully assembled, but obviously without any pegs:

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So, to the other end. Now you can imagine how many times I measured before cutting the post to length. (edit.....I should have said that I have cut the posts such that the top of the beam will be about 20mm too high, because I reckon there will be about 20 to 30mm of shrinkage in this build up over the next couple of years). The final operation for the day was to let the steel shoe into the foot of the post (how often does a shoe go into a foot!! :) ):

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The main mortise was done with a drill and chisels. It really isn't easy housing out end grain. It's easy parting the fibres, but a nightmare trying to chop them off at the right depth. I had to get the screaming monster out for the shallow part. That's the bearing surface, and its depth is critical......and trying to get a flat bottom on it with hand tools wasn't worth the struggle:

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Tidied everything away ready for a resumption on Sunday, and swept up as much of the oak sawdust and shavings as possible, because there is no better way of permanently staining concrete than leaving wet oak shavings on it.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby AJB Temple » 07 May 2021, 19:25

That is first class work Mike. It's a standard that most timber framers that I have seen do not meet. And really lovely oak. I am feeling jealousy coming on. It looks so nice I would be tempted to try to preserve that look in the finished post. (We both know how hard that is).

The sappy piece they will not want back so you can probably do them a favour and keep it for a couple of quid. Bound to come in useful in a less critical application.

I am a few weeks behind you. Will be getting the big Triton planer out in my case as I have quite a lot to do.

Lovely clean joints there. I shall have to up my game.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Mike G » 07 May 2021, 19:42

AJB Temple wrote:.......Will be getting the big Triton planer out....


I tried to pinch that when I visited, but you were watching me too closely. :) No, but seriously, that would make a hell of a difference to this job. I spend more time trying to remove the tramlines made by my little electric planer than any other part of preparing the faces. I actually scrub-planed this post (by hand) this time to remove the planer marks.
Last edited by Mike G on 07 May 2021, 19:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (garage oak started)

Postby Mike G » 07 May 2021, 19:44

AJB Temple wrote:......The sappy piece they will not want back so you can probably do them a favour and keep it for a couple of quid......


Unfortunately, it is perfect for a farmyard gatepost, and they're collecting it on Monday when they drop off the 6.2m 8x8 which is the main front beam.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (centre oak post cap)

Postby AJB Temple » 07 May 2021, 20:19

I have a spare.....you should have said. Happy to lend one.

Offer them a few quid for the post? Saves them the hassle. After all you have ruined it by planing two faces.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (centre oak post cap)

Postby Cabinetman » 08 May 2021, 07:52

Lovely work Mike, never normally considered shrinkage along the grain, that’s quite a lot isn’t it. Lovely catspaws on that oak, I saved a whole load from some flooring offcuts and intended to make some coasters with the catspaws on, another job -one day.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (centre oak post cap)

Postby Mike G » 08 May 2021, 08:05

Cabinetman wrote:Lovely work Mike


Thanks Ian.

never normally considered shrinkage along the grain, that’s quite a lot isn’t it.


It's not along the grain Ian, it's because there is another 8" piece laying on top of this little supporting capital. That makes just under 16 inches in thickness of horizontal timbers which will shrink. Because it is outside, I doubt it will ever shrink the 8% I've measured on green oak indoors which would give some 30+mm of shrinkage (8% of 400). I allowed 20mm as a compromise, and if someone could remind me in a couple of years time it will be easy to check how much it has shrunk in actuality.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (centre oak post cap)

Postby Rezi » 08 May 2021, 08:40

Great work Mike. I really enjoy your build posts.
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (centre oak post cap)

Postby Mike G » 08 May 2021, 08:43

Thanks Steve. There's plenty more to come!!
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (centre oak post cap)

Postby Cabinetman » 08 May 2021, 09:08

Oh thanks Mike I understand now, but it did get me thinking so I looked it up and longitudinal shrinkage is between 0.1 and 0.2% so on a 2 m length that’s between 10 and 20 mm, that’s more than I would’ve thought, but relative I suppose, it might make a difference if you were to infill a frame with masonry but obviously other timber will shrink a similar amount. Ian
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Re: Mike's extension & renovation (centre oak post cap)

Postby Mike G » 08 May 2021, 09:11

You may have your decimal point in the wrong place, Ian. 1% of 2000 is 20mm, so 0.1% is 2mm.
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