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Staircase upgrade - ...

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 13 Dec 2021, 18:53

Bit more progress. Landing wreath finished and fitted to the landing straight.

Image

And at the other end, the 90 quarter-turn glued and fitted and the rough cut made with a fine Fein blade for the channel to take the spindles. Had to be done this way. No way of fixing the quarter-turn properly so I could use a router and a trammel.
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To complement this, at the bottom of the spindles I need a quarter-turn made up of the bottom housing.

Gash bit of wood, router and trammel to hog out the inside and start the outer edge
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And the inside edge
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Split to the required height on the bandsaw
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and out it pops ready for hand-moulding

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and a paper template to make some fillet strips. No idea where the spindles will end up yet so I'll make a complete piece and cut to taste.

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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Malc2098 » 13 Dec 2021, 18:55

Still nice!
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Mike G » 13 Dec 2021, 21:08

My goodness, this has been a labour of love. Well, we all know you've hated doing it, but you get my drift. :lol:
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 04 Jan 2022, 14:07

So, back in the saddle and time to assemble most of it. One can fiddle around forever.

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The turns are more challenging. The first quarter turn is easy as it's flat - top and bottom. (Ignore that bit of walnut...it doesn't go there)
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The next quarter turn with a small wreath fortunately sat nicely on the landing and top step. The bottom rebated groove is only a 'proof of concept' to see if I can simply mortice out the bottoms for the spindles, insert the three spindles and then slide the whole assembly into position. By simply morticing the sockets will make things easier as no fiddly curved infill pieces to make.

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But the tops of the three corner spindles is a bit of a nightmare - especially the one on the right as the top is a compound angle and I'm struggling to find a good way of getting this measured....any suggestions very welcome especially as we move on down to the main wreath.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Robert » 04 Jan 2022, 14:25

RogerS wrote:But the tops of the three corner spindles is a bit of a nightmare - especially the one on the right as the top is a compound angle and I'm struggling to find a good way of getting this measured....any suggestions very welcome especially as we move on down to the main wreath.


suggestion...A short spindle or batten with 4 long thin metal angles (say 8mmx8mm x 200mm) held onto the corners of the batten at the top end by elastic bands. Slide the angles until they touch and you will have your cutting angle. Might need to taper the ends so you get point contact.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby AJB Temple » 04 Jan 2022, 14:43

Well. I admire you sticking at this for what seems like years and years Roger. It has definitely convinced me that the best way to make a complex stair handrail is a) get someone else to do it, of b) get it done in metal that is malleable or c) move house, possibly to a bungalow. 8-)
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 04 Jan 2022, 15:00

Robert wrote:
RogerS wrote:But the tops of the three corner spindles is a bit of a nightmare - especially the one on the right as the top is a compound angle and I'm struggling to find a good way of getting this measured....any suggestions very welcome especially as we move on down to the main wreath.


suggestion...A short spindle or batten with 4 long thin metal angles (say 8mmx8mm x 200mm) held onto the corners of the batten at the top end by elastic bands. Slide the angles until they touch and you will have your cutting angle. Might need to taper the ends so you get point contact.


Cracking idea, Robert :text-bravo: :text-goodpost: I think that idea definitely has legs.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Malc2098 » 04 Jan 2022, 16:36

Wow! Looks so much different from when I saw it!
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 04 Jan 2022, 16:41

Behold!

I bring you the prototype Roberts 'Acme' compound angle finder. It works a treat !
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 04 Jan 2022, 16:44

Malc2098 wrote:Wow! Looks so much different from when I saw it!


Certainly is, Malc.

BEFORE
Image

NOW
Image

:D
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby 9fingers » 04 Jan 2022, 16:47

Possibly not the right thing to be saying but from the first time I saw that staircase, long before you said anything about changing it, I really liked it.

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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 04 Jan 2022, 16:53

9fingers wrote:Possibly not the right thing to be saying but from the first time I saw that staircase, long before you said anything about changing it, I really liked it.

Bob


You and me, both but you know how it goes...."Darling.....I've been thinking about that clunky old staircase......" :lol:
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Andyp » 04 Jan 2022, 17:10

9fingers wrote:Possibly not the right thing to be saying but from the first time I saw that staircase, long before you said anything about changing it, I really liked it.

Bob


I agree, except for that awful double newel post on the corner.

Great job though Roger.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Sheffield Tony » 04 Jan 2022, 18:24

RogerS wrote:NOW
Image

:D


I admit I know nothing about staircase design. And I know this is probably a terrible time to ask. But without any newel posts :shock:, what provides strength to that hand rail ? It looks a bit alarmingly lightweight to me. If I lean on the top handrail do I and up with a scene looking like a bar room brawl in a cowboy movie ?
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Malc2098 » 04 Jan 2022, 18:26

I'm with herself on this! :D
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 04 Jan 2022, 18:31

Sheffield Tony wrote:
RogerS wrote:NOW
Image

:D


I admit I know nothing about staircase design. And I know this is probably a terrible time to ask. But without any newel posts :shock:, what provides strength to that hand rail ? It looks a bit alarmingly lightweight to me. If I lean on the top handrail do I and up with a scene looking like a bar room brawl in a cowboy movie ?


A fair point but we'll never lean on it or get drunk or throw drunken parties :D If in the future someone else does decide to tempt fate and swing from it well, the Darwin Award organisation is always looking for new members.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Sheffield Tony » 04 Jan 2022, 19:05

I don't think how you plan to use it is relevant; its purpose is to prevent nasty accidents. You could extend the same argument to justify leaving it completely open ! And a part of the justification of building regs is to ensure safety, within reasonable working assumptions, for future users. I can't see where the structural strength in that handrail comes from. Just perhaps worth thinking on.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 04 Jan 2022, 19:31

Sheffield Tony wrote:I don't think how you plan to use it is relevant; its purpose is to prevent nasty accidents. You could extend the same argument to justify leaving it completely open ! And a part of the justification of building regs is to ensure safety, within reasonable working assumptions, for future users. I can't see where he structural strength in that handrail comes from. Just perhaps worth thinking on.


Tough.

I'll have a word with the Georgians. They've clearly got it all wrong and so this is the last that I will say on this aspect.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Andyp » 04 Jan 2022, 19:46

tenor.gif
(2.17 MiB)
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Jonathan » 04 Jan 2022, 21:59

Rodger, love the improvements you have made on the balustrading, for me it's a 100% improvement.
In my past life I worked on a few Georgian FBH's and the way they strengthened the balustrading without newels was to incorporate secret metal balustrades with tee bars top and bottom that where secured into string and handrail.

For me the delight of these old staircases was there movement and noises they made which gave them character.




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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 04 Jan 2022, 23:39

Andyp wrote:
tenor.gif


:text-lol:
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 04 Jan 2022, 23:40

Jonathan wrote:Rodger, love the improvements you have made on the balustrading, for me it's a 100% improvement......


:text-bravo: :text-goodpost:
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 05 Jan 2022, 11:10

Bit of a conundrum around the bottom wreath. :eusa-think:

It's because of the drop in level between the two flights and the fact that the wreath, unsurprisingly, lies outside the strings of the two flights.

Image

Image

Very hard to judge the actual line and so I've hung four lines where spindles will go. The lengths are such that the line of 'urns' at the bottom of the spindles follows a curve round. I think that that is the right approach but there are complications as I see it. You can just make out the marks I made on a couple of lines and show where the urn will be.

Image

A is close the the side of the stringer and I could have a small (carved? turned to match the profile of the handrail? walnut ? ...the strings will be painted Perhaps a larger version of the urn on the spindle ?) that would support the bottom of the spindle.

B serendipitously actually touches that 'newel' post and so could be domino'd and glued in place

It is C and D that are the tricky ones. The best that I can think of is to extend the bottom square of the spindle so that the bottoms terminate at the same level as each other and on supports fixed to the side of the string ? or staggered to follow the angle of the string ? again two small turned (?) supports ...the same as that at A ?

Thoughts welcome.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Jar944 » 07 Jan 2022, 15:59

Following.

Curious to see how you make that turn work out. I have a similar project I plan to tackle here in the next couple years.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Mike G » 07 Jan 2022, 16:48

Even if you can sort out something for those spindles to sit on, it's going to be a funny old view walking up the stairs to see the ballusters gently leave the string, and to have a bare string and newel-top on view. It's not impossible you might end up with a gap somewhere of greater than 99mm, too.
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