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Ash bed WIP - Finished!

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby Woodbloke » 17 Nov 2021, 17:15

AndyT wrote:
So I decided to make my first trip to Yandles. And it was just as I expected; a really wide range of boards, planed on one side, clearly priced, and as much time as you want to sift through the stacks for the right boards for your project. Hence the two new bits with the blue ends which will be the long rails on either side.

And although the shopping experience was lovely, I do have two little misgivings. One is that they only had ash in inch or two inch boards. Most of what I have already is ex 1¼". So these two may be a bit thin. I'm telling myself that I can fix that by making them 4½" deep rather than 3½". Also, I'll glue the old rails onto the backs, to support the ends of the slats, so the whole construction will be stronger than before.
The other thing is that this is probably the kilned ash that Rob warned me about... :eusa-naughty:


You'll find it's quite nice stuff to plane, and most of the boards are very white and very clean...you might even get a bit with some olive it it. It's also quite reasonably priced, which is always a bonus. It's really nasty though, if you need to do some hand cut joinery (aka 'shovetails') which involve chisel work across the end grain. Chopping/sawing through cast iron might be a little easier.

Conversely, I've just finished hand planing some fantabulous air dried, rippled English Ash which has the consistency (as we discussed) of a very hard cheese, which sounds odd, but it's the best way I can describe it - Rob
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby AndyT » 18 Nov 2021, 17:33

Another day, another update! Can I keep up this breakneck pace? Probably not, but it's nice to have a project on the go again, and one which may well take quite a while.

One thing I forgot to say was that I don't have a full size drawing of this bed; we'll see whether that comes back to bite me later on. However, many of the dimensions, as I have mentioned, are set by the old bed, so I can re-use some of the parts. What's harder is knowing exactly how big to make everything. I'm aware that a few mm can be the difference between something looking harmonious and it just looking clumsy. So I did spend some time experimenting with dimensions of the legs, the cross rails and the chamfered capping piece that goes across the top.

Here we have the results of that time: a bit of fence post, planed down to 2 5/8" square, with a scrap of ash at 3½" wide and a bit of oak, ¾" thick with a 60° bevel.

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What do you think? I decided on two things, both reversible. One is that the top rail needs to be thicker, probably 7/8", the other is that it's really critical that it sits forward of the top of the leg. In other words, the chamfer mustn't meet the vertical surface of the leg; it has to be set forward of it. So my capping rail has to be thicker and wider than the offcut of oak seen here.

My first job this morning was to tackle the two boards which will make the side rails. These are not far off the required size.

Thickness is ex 1" and I should be able to keep that up to about 7/8" - an advantage of hand planing, I believe - what's the minimum cut you could make with a planer or a thicknesser?

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The challenge is the length. These are just over 8' long, about the same as my bench, which has very little spare space at the ends. I'm not complaining - I built it that way - and I take full responsibility for the working conditions. :)

There's just room for the plane iron to clear the left hand end without hitting anything:

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but the right hand end does need me to grasp the front knob and plane on the pull stroke:

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You'll notice that the far end is resting on a spare bit of wood cramped under the bench, but encouragingly, these boards barely deflect when being planed.

Next I selected the best bits of each one and trimmed them down to the proper length, plus a bit. Not sure why I didn't do that first!

Then it was time for some more comical, corner to corner table sawing. Here's the infeed side:

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and here's the outfeed:

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I am very safety conscious when using the table saw, so as well as needing time to move it, I need to wedge it level and make sure that there is room all round. I'm not saying this to recommend my way of working - with hindsight, I'd have been better off buying a bigger bandsaw - but it's really just my way of showing how machine woodworking isn't a quick way of working if you do it in a small, crowded space.

The only other thing I got done was to debark all the useful looking offcuts. I did this because the outer layers are where you'll find any flight holes and I wanted to minimise the risk of any pests emerging and finding a new home, or of SunnyBob burning the house down as a precaution on one of his trips back to the UK. :)

I ripped most of the bark off on the table saw, but for the thick bits I found that the quickest, easiest way was to use a drawknife.

There's enough in this lump to make a few hammer handles, or legs for a low bench, so it's worth keeping.

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The drawknife is a French one, bought on eBay, new old stock.

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I don't know who made it, but I think it might have come from one of the many companies that used to be concentrated along the river Tarn, not an area famous for its striped wildlife, but where is?

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And in a further demonstration that Sheffield was never the only source of good tools, I finished off with a modern day scrub plane that I believe to be made by Pinié in the Czech Republic, one of the very few contemporary volume manufacturers of wooden planes:

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Next time - some more planing and maybe a digression or two!
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby 9fingers » 18 Nov 2021, 17:46

AndyT wrote:Another day, another update! Can I keep up this breakneck pace?
Thickness is ex 1" and I should be able to keep that up to about 7/8" - an advantage of hand planing, I believe - what's the minimum cut you could make with a planer or a thicknesser?


Steady Andy, I'm getting giddy with all this pace.

About all I can contribute is that I can usually take off 0.3mm with my four post thicknesser but prefer to limit to 0.5mm per cut to ensure no tell tale marks from the drive roller so taking off 1/8" I'd do two 1mm passes one on each side followed by two 0.6mm passes to finesse each face. Machine planing can be very precise don't you know and a well set up machine produces no snipe and no discernible ripple.

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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby Sheffield Tony » 18 Nov 2021, 17:49

I'm impressed with your ability to make absolutely the most of the space. I have a similar problem, although you can plane to the end of the piece, the plane throws all the shavings into the cupboard ! :lol:

The longest piece I've prepared yet was 1.7m for a bath panel.
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby Mike G » 18 Nov 2021, 18:54

If I were closer, I'd offer you use of my workshop. Yours is just a tad inconvenient for anything longer than a few feet.

I've got to hand plane some 2.5m boards shortly for my dining table, which is some 700 or 800mm longer than my bench. I'm currently pondering on the various alternatives, none of which include propping it on the open drawer of a chest of drawers. :lol:
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby Andyp » 18 Nov 2021, 20:22

Andy’s next project?

A bigger wirkshop. :)

With the level of care you are putting in so far the bed is gonna be a good ‘un.
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby Tiresias » 18 Nov 2021, 20:28

AndyT wrote:
And in a further demonstration that Sheffield was never the only source of good tools, I finished off with a modern day scrub plane that I believe to be made by Pinié in the Czech Republic, one of the very few contemporary volume manufacturers of wooden planes:

The attachment IMG_7702.JPG is no longer available


Next time - some more planing and maybe a digression or two!


Andy, Andy, Andy...

a purchased roughing plane. What are you thinking about.

Make one yourself

Roughing Plane 14.jpg
(98.01 KiB)


Keep up the good work. Beds always seem to me to offer some marvellous scope for carving, or silly bed posts.

We have one of these.

Venetian bed.jpg
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I wouldn't know how on earth to start making it though. Other than a lathe I suppose.
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby AndyT » 19 Nov 2021, 11:08

Thanks for the encouragement everyone, it really does help. Even the bed design with the narwhal tusks at the corners!

But the only way the workshop can get bigger is if I dig through into the neighbours' houses or if I get rid of all the tools - neither of those is going to happen. I'd have to get rid of my other scrub plane, which is user made (just not by me).
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby Cabinetman » 19 Nov 2021, 14:42

Hi Andy, pesky worms will also be found in the sapwood not just the bark. And just to depress you, I built my bed from kiln dried American Ash a couple of years ago and within a few months they emerged from one stile of the headboard (all heartwood), my workshop is as dry as a house, did they survive kilning? Did they munch their way in after kilning? But supposedly they don’t like dry wood. Don’t know but it’s bloody annoying. Ian
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby AndyT » 19 Nov 2021, 15:24

Thanks for the warning, Ian. I do have some pale filler, just in case!
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby AndyT » 20 Nov 2021, 12:24

Now that the bits of wood fit on the bench, progress has calmed down to something more orderly. Not much to show for it though!

Years ago, when the top of my bench was a chunk of kitchen worktop, I sometimes used to lay a strip of flooring grade chipboard on the top, held by the bench stop and a batten in the vice. This gave me a nice flat surface and I fitted strips of ply as stops. It is still the quickest easiest way I have to arrange the bench for this sort of planing job. There's nothing to get in the way. The work can be picked up and turned over or round without undoing clamps.

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I did almost all of the planing with just two Stanley planes - the 5½ and the 4½ - two of my most useful and reliable planes.

They soon took me from sawn

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through this stage with a few stray saw marks

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to this which is smooth enough, bar that pesky bit of reverse grain at the tip which will probably get sawn off.

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I expect this is more detail than some people would want - but it filled a pleasant morning and really wasn't very hard work. I don't need to reduce the dimensions of any of these boards, just get them smooth.

I now have a stack of wood half-done

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and some free kindling / biodegradable packing material.

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And especially for Tiresias, I managed to find my other scrub plane. I reckon it's home made, using the method shown by Charles Hayward in his wartime book on making tools, where you saw a block of wood in half so you can cut the mouth of the plane easily, then fix the two sides back together.

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Well worth 99p on eBay and even I don't need a third one!
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby Dr.Al » 20 Nov 2021, 12:33

AndyT wrote:I expect this is more detail than some people would want


Definitely not more detail than I want. I'm loving every bit of this thread, so please don't abridge it!
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby Stuart » 20 Nov 2021, 13:06

Dr.Al wrote:
AndyT wrote:I expect this is more detail than some people would want


Definitely not more detail than I want. I'm loving every bit of this thread, so please don't abridge it!

Me too!

I enjoy the detail of your threads Andy, don't change 'em.
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby NickM » 20 Nov 2021, 18:45

Agreed. The more detail the better! I’ve got some self milled ash drying so I’m keen to see how this goes.
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby Mike G » 20 Nov 2021, 23:24

AndyT wrote:........I expect this is more detail than some people would want..........


Not for a second. That's what woodworking is: taking care of the details.
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby AndyT » 25 Nov 2021, 12:22

Thanks all for the licence to go into detail - I'll do my best!

I did a bit more planing on Tuesday but that was just the same as I've already shown.
And I'm not doing any today, as someone stuck a needle in my arm yesterday and it's a little bit tender. ;)

So, putting arms to the back of our minds, lets have a look at the legs.

You've already seen the original plank. Ex 3", with big splits at either end. I had to saw it in two to get it home.

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thick as a plank
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And here are the the legs I cut out of it, on top of the stack of bits.

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legs resting
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I cut them well over length and ripped them to 3". I then planed them a little just to clean up the saw cuts. Then I left them in our well-ventilated, unheated utility room. I've read plenty of advice about letting newly-cut timber acclimatise slowly before making it up. They have stayed in there unmolested.

I don't have a moisture meter but these are all under 5kg so ok to weigh on the kitchen scales, and that's what I have been doing, whenever I think about it, noting the weight of each one on a bit of masking tape.

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a long weight
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They are all losing a little bit, fairly slowly. They have stayed reasonably straight, but are definitely showing the sort of shrinkage pattern often illustrated in textbooks, where a square billet becomes prismatic:

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not the right angles
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That's a right angle at the top left, but I think you can tell that the others aren't!

Fortunately, the minimum dimension at the moment is still a smidgeon above the 2⅝" that I am aiming at.

How much longer will it be before the shrinkage stops? I don't know, but seeing as I am sitting at a PC I might as well draw a graph of the story so far, five and a half weeks in:

bed leg weights 25-11.jpg
vital statistics
(93.01 KiB)


Does that look about right? Will I need to stick extra bits on as these dwindle away to matchsticks? Stay tuned! :)
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby 9fingers » 25 Nov 2021, 12:58

Maybe consider normalising your data to the starting weight of each piece ie divide each result by its starting weight and the plotting with a y axis maxima of say 1.05?

Would be easier to see what is going on and spot anything unusual going on for leg to leg?

Just a thought

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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby AndyT » 25 Nov 2021, 13:19

9fingers wrote:Maybe consider normalising your data to the starting weight of each piece ie divide each result by its starting weight and the plotting with a y axis maxima of say 1.05?

Would be easier to see what is going on and spot anything unusual going on for leg to leg?

Just a thought

Bob


That's a challenge! I think I can follow that suggestion, but it does remind me how long it is since I used Excel or thought about any of this sort of stuff. Is this what you mean Bob?

bed leg weights normalised 25-11.jpg
Bob's way is clearer
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It does (reassuringly) show that the rate of weight loss is less than it was in the first week. Many thanks, Bob.
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby 9fingers » 25 Nov 2021, 14:07

Excellent Andy.
It's years of practice at work having to present research results in an optimum way to illustrate a particular trend.

It's the shape I'd expect and gradually the curve will likely become asymptotic to a terminal value representing the mean humidity in your storage space.

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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby Woodbloke » 25 Nov 2021, 14:55

AndyT wrote:
How much longer will it be before the shrinkage stops?


Just to go slightly off topic Andy, you could be in the the long haul. These two bookmatched bits of London Plane are secondary conditioning next to SWIMBO's fossil cabinet. They're for a display case and will eventually be used in the glazed door, similar to SWIMBO's elm cabinet:

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(279.04 KiB)


In this particular instance, it's absolutely crucial that the wood is as dry as a dry thing and won't warp or twist as it could result in a badly fitting door and/or a shattered pane of glass. They've been there now for at least three months but one bit is stubbornly refusing (or so it appears) to give up it's moisture:

IMG_6222.jpeg
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That was tested with the Ax moisture meter (https://www.axminstertools.com/brennens ... tor-950995) which is a pretty good piece of kit, but I think I'm going to have to leave both bits there for a while longer.

That said, I don't think you need to get your ash anywhere near 6-7% MC and I would be happy with around 10%.

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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby AndyT » 25 Nov 2021, 15:26

Interesting, thanks. I really appreciate a relevant digression like this.

I can see that you really don't want wood framing thin glass to distort at all.

It may be a bit late to suggest it, but I wonder what it would look like if you plotted total weight alongside measured moisture content, over time. I'm wondering if they would always show the same rate of change. Or maybe there's a difference because of how the weighing method gives information averaged over the whole piece, while the meter gives a sample reading at one location. (Or do you take several readings and average them?)

Perhaps I'll get Richard Jones' book for Christmas this year and find the answer in there!
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby Woodbloke » 25 Nov 2021, 15:43

AndyT wrote:Perhaps I'll get Richard Jones' book for Christmas this year and find the answer in there!

I have it; it's a good and informative read but quite hard going - Rob
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby Cabinetman » 25 Nov 2021, 18:26

Well after a little diversion down the maths rabbit hole, had you thought about adding a bit of decoration? May not be your cup of tea, this is the foot end of my Ash bed. Ian
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby AndyT » 25 Nov 2021, 18:38

Cabinetman wrote:Well after a little diversion down the maths rabbit hole, had you thought about adding a bit of decoration? May not be your cup of tea, this is the foot end of my Ash bed. Ian
6C8ACA86-6954-4E67-946F-A0735693CFC5.jpeg


Well, I think that looks rather stylish, and I hope I could do something similar without messing it all up. However, I shall need to consult with the other user of the bed, and I expect she will be less keen. :(
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Re: Ash bed WIP

Postby Routermonster » 06 Dec 2021, 11:37

Hello Andy
I’ve been following your thread with great interest, as SWMBO and I have recently been talking about me building a double (or maybe king size) bed to replace our existing divan. Thanks for your very informative account!

Now this may seem like a stupid question, but what will be the dimensions of your double bed? I appreciate that a double mattress measures 1900 x 1350 mm (6’ 3” x 4’ 6”). Are you using these dimensions, adding any ‘wiggle room’, or working to the size of an existing mattress?

Many thanks
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