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End Grain cutting board - ***PROBLEM***

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End Grain cutting board - ***PROBLEM***

Postby RogerM » 29 Oct 2021, 17:34

Over the last few days I've been doing some actual woodwork, rather than just trolling other people's posts in the Woodmangler's Retreat! Frustratingly, heavy jobs have been off for a few weeks as I've had a flare up of arthritis in both wrists, but now that it has subsided and the anti-inflammatories are working I'm back in the workshop.

A little while ago I made a couple of end-grain cutting boards, threads for which are here and here, using plans from MTMWood. The plans worked well, and I unreservedly recommend them, and I was pleased with the end results.

However, with so many glue-ups, recutting and regluing required, they are quite labour intensive and heavy on wastage, so they don't make quickly made presents, and neither are they cheap to make - particularly if you are using some of the more exotic hardwoods. If you follow the instructions in the plans, you end up with a cutting board about 45mm thick, and some fully glued up left-overs. I was pondering these left-overs and thinking they could be recut to make an extra board but it would only be 12mm thick, which isn't enough.

:idea: But, I have 2 sets of offcuts, so together they would make two boards 12mm thick, so what if I glued them back to back on either side of a piece of 18mm birch ply? I would then have a board 42mm thick, and I could cover the join around the edge with some oak. We have had trouble with a couple of commercially made end grain boards splitting along the joins (although not the ones I made) so maybe this would be more resilient as well? As my sister needs a 60th birthday present I thought it was worth a try.

I don't intend to go through a blow by blow account of how the pattern is made, but you can see the MTMWood videos of how each one was made here :-



..... and here.



These are the offcuts I have available.

DSCF8741-1.jpg
offcuts
(319.54 KiB)


The brown ones are beech and cherry, and there are two different patterns - one is the negative of the other. The ones in the foreground are wenge, sycamore and oak. The offcut with all 3 timber species is the shortest, so the thickness of the new board will be determined by that one. I need 6 strips, so It is wide enough to cut strips 13mm thick.

DSCF8747-1.jpg
offcuts 2
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I've cut a piece of 18mm birch ply about 430mm x 430mm, and start to lay out the pattern. The approximate size of the finished board is set out in pencil.

DSCF8748-1.jpg
layout 1
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Here they are, loosely arranged.

DSCF8752-1.jpg
loosely arranged
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I then do the same with other set, here being cut into 13mm strips on the bandsaw.

DSCF8746-1.jpg
cutting on bandsaw
(280.14 KiB)


I then glued each set onto the plywood using TB3. I forgot to take a photo of this process, but put simply, I screwed a batten 10mm thick to the board, so that it's surface was below the 13mm board strips. The batten was covered with parcel tape so that it wouldn't be stuck to the board from any squeeze-out. I glued the strips in place, and put another tape covered strip at the other end before clamping it together. Then I screwed down the second batten so that I could take the clamps off and put it in a vacuum bag to make sure it was firmly held down to the plywood base. Once it had dried I ran it through the drum sander to flatten the upper surface. I then turned it over and repeated for the second set of strips.

Whilst the glue was drying I cut some strips of oak 45mm wide (3mm wider than the finished board thickness) from a 25mm thick plank of oak, and glued them edge to edge. I cut the edge off 2 opposing sides of the cutting board to create a straight edge, and glued the oak strips to them. Then I cut them flush with the surface of the cutting board with a trim cutter on the router table.

DSCF8754-1.jpg
router table
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Then I cut the remaining 2 sides of the board

DSCF8757-1.jpg
cut to size
(294.42 KiB)


and added a further 2 oak strips and cut them flush on the router table. Next, I smoothed each side on the drum sander before rounding over all the edges with a 13mm round over bit on the router table.

DSCF8758-1.jpg
side 1
(404.71 KiB)


Finally, I smoothed each surface by going down through the grits (60/120/180/240/320) on the ROS.

Then my favourite bit - watching the colours pop as the finish is applied.

DSCF8762-1.jpg
start the finish
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The finish is 2 generous coats of Chestnut "Food safe finish", followed buy a light sanding with 320 grit, and a final generous coat of food safe finish and beeswax, in a 4:1 mix. Once dry, it was buffed to a satin finish and job done.

DSCF8780-1.jpg
side 1 finished
(440.73 KiB)


DSCF8782-1.jpg
side 2 finished
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DSCF8783-1.jpg
side 2 finished 2
(385.59 KiB)


I'm happy with the end result. I'm hoping that this laminated approach will be more split resistant than a solid board, and of course it only uses about 50% of the expensive hardwood that a conventional approach would do. In this case it used up some left overs from previous projects. In future I may use this as my standard type of construction, and would be suitable for a "batch build" approach.
Last edited by RogerM on 26 Feb 2022, 12:03, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby AJB Temple » 29 Oct 2021, 17:55

Looks outstanding. Very impressive.
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby Dr.Al » 29 Oct 2021, 18:29

Beautiful - you should be proud of those.
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby AndyT » 29 Oct 2021, 18:33

Gorgeous!
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby Peri » 29 Oct 2021, 18:49

Love 'em :)
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby DaveL » 29 Oct 2021, 19:12

Very nice and a great use of the off cuts from the other boards.
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby Andyp » 29 Oct 2021, 19:20

They do look stunning.

Have you any current pictures of the ones you made two years ago? Just curious to see how they wear.
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby Malc2098 » 29 Oct 2021, 21:29

Wow!
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby Woodbloke » 30 Oct 2021, 07:30

Very impressive Roger; I likes it! - Rob
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby NickM » 30 Oct 2021, 07:59

Very effective!
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby clogs » 30 Oct 2021, 08:54

better not let the wife see this page.......hahaha.......

STUNNING......well done that man....
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby Robert » 30 Oct 2021, 09:57

Very Nice.

Takes me back to the ones i made. All 6 are in daily use and all are wearing well. Plenty of knife scratches as you'd expect. being end grain though no bits are falling off.

The one I kept gets rinsed under the tap and dried now and then with no ill effects.
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby RogerM » 30 Oct 2021, 10:00

Thanks for all the kind comments guys. Using up offcuts certainly made this a quick build as there was minimal machining in preparation, and all I had to do was the final cut and glue up.

Andyp wrote:They do look stunning.

Have you any current pictures of the ones you made two years ago? Just curious to see how they wear.


Andy - I saw the first one I made back in May, and that had been lightly used and was in very good condition. The second one, made for my son, found it's way out to San Francisco after Xmas 2019, and when we saw it in March last year the surface was bare as he had been wiping it with neat detergent after use rather than just rinsing it under the tap as instructed! Having reminded him that it was a wax and oil finish, and that neat detergent is specifically designed to remove it, I cleaned it up with a light sanding by hand and re-oiled it with some locally bought mineral oil, and it came up like new. We will be out there again for the first time since Covid in November so I'll report back.
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby Woodster » 30 Oct 2021, 11:06

They do indeed look very nice.

Just out of interest what blade is that on your bandsaw?
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby RogerM » 30 Oct 2021, 12:51

Woodster wrote:They do indeed look very nice.

Just out of interest what blade is that on your bandsaw?


Thanks Woodster. The bandsaw blade is a Tuffsaws Super Tuff fastcut 5/8". I generally use an M42 as my everyday cutting blade, but I use the Super Tuff when I want a good finish and minimal waste straight off the saw.
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby Andy Kev. » 30 Oct 2021, 12:58

Those boards are of such a quality that I imagine they would win prizes in competitions and I shudder to think what they would cost if they were being offered in some swanky west-end shop.

Well done, indeed!
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby Cabinetman » 31 Oct 2021, 10:19

Really stunning work! I would be slightly anxious that the ply will stop the wood moving? Sincerely hope it doesn’t as that would be a real shame. Ian
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Re: End Grain cutting board - a different approach.

Postby RogerM » 31 Oct 2021, 11:43

Cabinetman wrote:Really stunning work! I would be slightly anxious that the ply will stop the wood moving? Sincerely hope it doesn’t as that would be a real shame. Ian


Thanks Ian. the shrinkage question crossed my mind too, and I rationalised it this way. There is minimal shrinkage along the grain, and there are different rates of shrinkage between quarter-sawn timber and plain sawn. Different species also shrink by different amounts. These boards have both plain and quarter sawn pieces, and their orientation is more or less random too, and they are all very small. I'm therefore hoping that the amount of shrinkage within any given piece, and along the join between any two pieces will be so small that it will be absorbed by the elasticity of the wood and the glue.

These diagrams from the MTMWood instructions show where the joins occur in the 3D cube effect board.

cutting pattern 1.jpg
cutting pattern 1
(65.71 KiB)


cutting pattern 2.jpg
Cutting pattern 2
(185.14 KiB)


I was generous with the glue between the end grain and the plywood, so I'm hoping that this should in fact be more resilient to splitting than a conventional board. That's my hypothesis anyway. This board will be staying local so I'll be able to keep an eye on it. I've told my kid sister that this comes with a lifetime guarantee, but the bad news is that is my lifetime, not hers! :lol:
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Re: End Grain cutting board - ***PROBLEM***

Postby RogerM » 26 Feb 2022, 11:52

RogerM wrote:
Cabinetman wrote:Really stunning work! I would be slightly anxious that the ply will stop the wood moving? Sincerely hope it doesn’t as that would be a real shame. Ian


Thanks Ian. the shrinkage question crossed my mind too, and I rationalised it this way. There is minimal shrinkage along the grain, and there are different rates of shrinkage between quarter-sawn timber and plain sawn. Different species also shrink by different amounts. These boards have both plain and quarter sawn pieces, and their orientation is more or less random too, and they are all very small. I'm therefore hoping that the amount of shrinkage within any given piece, and along the join between any two pieces will be so small that it will be absorbed by the elasticity of the wood and the glue.

I was generous with the glue between the end grain and the plywood, so I'm hoping that this should in fact be more resilient to splitting than a conventional board. That's my hypothesis anyway. This board will be staying local so I'll be able to keep an eye on it. I've told my kid sister that this comes with a lifetime guarantee, but the bad news is that is my lifetime, not hers! :lol:


DSCF9548-1reduced.jpg
(370.03 KiB)


DSCF9549-1reduced.jpg
(403.48 KiB)


So much for my theorising! Here's the reality after 4 months of regular use. The cherry/beech side of the board is showing several small splits. It's been in regular daily use since November, but I am assured categorically that it has never seen a dishwasher or been immersed in hot water for any length of time. The wood does feel very dry though, so I am wondering whether there has been excessive use of hot water and detergent. What is it with people who insist on using neat detergent on oiled wood? What to do about it though?

I have 3 ideas.

1. I have some offcuts from making the board, so just generate some sawdust and do the old glue and sawdust filler trick.

2. Given that it's end grain, cut some tapered slivers of matching wood to tap into the cracks and complete with the wood and sawdust trick.

3. Cut out the offending sections with a router down to the plywood core and replace with fresh wood from the scrap.

I think no.2 is my favourite. I'll cut some tapered slivers that I can tap into place and then fill using glue and sawdust and refinish. Sadly, I think the writing is on the wall and that there will be further failures, so I suspect that I will have to build a solid replacement in the traditional way sometime. This was a 60th birthday present for my little sister so it needs to be resolved in a way that will last, and I'm not sure I'd risk this method of construction again. Fortunately this time it only involved using leftovers from a previous build, and all the complex cutting and glueing had already been done.

Strangely enough, the other side, in Wenge, Oak and Maple, which I am told she uses far more often, is showing no signs of damage at all. Maybe these are more stable than Cherry and Beech?
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Re: End Grain cutting board - ***PROBLEM***

Postby Phil » 26 Feb 2022, 12:20

Still a very nice looking cutting board :D

(I certainly would not like to get pis.sed in that kitchen looking at the board :lol: )
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Re: End Grain cutting board - ***PROBLEM***

Postby Robert » 26 Feb 2022, 12:26

The board I kept I coated with polyvine extreme varnish left over from my outdoor table build. It said food safe on the bottle. It has worn very well and no flakes have come off despite numerous knife cuts. It also still gives a good degree of waterproofing. When the board is rinsed under the hot tap the water still sits on not soaks in. It gets a squirt of detergent when there is grease on it and again no problem. So I'd consider a more permanent seal after repairing.
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Re: End Grain cutting board - ***PROBLEM***

Postby AJB Temple » 26 Feb 2022, 12:58

I'm a very keen cook, and a bit obsessed with boards and knives. I've made a portable end grain maple butcher's block 80mm thick with three steel rods, and currently have in my new kitchen an antique French block about 800mm square which is double sided and 6" deep, with maple sides and 6 bolts (three one way three the other).

I saw your previous thread and very much admired your work.

However....if the board is to be used by a serious cook, it will be cleaned multiple times a day. Like many butchers I use a home made sprayed mixture of bleach, lemon juice and a small amount of detergent. The boards are regularly oiled with food grade mineral oil.

I think for a "user" rather than show board, cracking is inevitable. It WILL happen. It is surprising how much they move. My French block, which is commercial and hand made in 1882, definitely moves. The six bolts need a little pinch up now and again using a socket drive (they are half inch steel rods).
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Re: End Grain cutting board - ***PROBLEM***

Postby Woodbloke » 26 Feb 2022, 13:10

AJB Temple wrote:I think for a "user" rather than show board, cracking is inevitable. It WILL happen. It is surprising how much they move.


Agreed. If you try a 'fix' in one place it will, in time, only open up somewhere else. One of the reasons why I never make these things as it would irritate me beyond reasonable belief - Rob
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Re: End Grain cutting board - ***PROBLEM***

Postby Cabinetman » 26 Feb 2022, 13:13

RogerM ."Strangely enough, the other side, in Wenge, Oak and Maple, which I am told she uses far more often, is showing no signs of damage at all. Maybe these are more stable than Cherry and Beech?"
Well Roger there you might have it, you might ask your sister if she washes both sides of the board every time, if she only washes the side she has been using that might be causing the problem, do you have a moisture meter? Might be worth testing both sides and comparing,
I would go with slivers tapped into the cracks with a bit of glue, unless of course the cracked side is bone dry, they may close up when wetted. Ian
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Re: End Grain cutting board - ***PROBLEM***

Postby Cabinetman » 26 Feb 2022, 13:20

I've made a portable end grain maple butcher's block 80mm thick with three steel rods,"
Adrian I think you’re contradicting yourself there ha ha I made an end grain Beech block 60 mm thick once ( about 18” x12”) and it certainly wasn’t portable! I seriously worried about and warned the client about not dropping it on their toes.
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