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V & A coffee table Finished!

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Windows » 02 Feb 2022, 15:11

I’m looking forward to seeing it!
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Andyp » 18 Feb 2022, 09:52

I brought home the timber from British Hardwoods last weekend.This is the first time I have bought PAR timber like this, other than softwood from the sheds. I am impressed. The finish is impeccable. The sides true and square. It was well wrapped with all edges and corners well protected.

Laid out my prototype legs just to see where any joins would be. I think 4” wide was a good choice and it easy to see where, if any, the dowels will go.

05439B47-C547-4D54-81BE-9F898278865A.jpeg
(346.16 KiB)


A9BC1838-8767-4D9D-83D6-FD5B8760FE03.jpeg
(218.96 KiB)
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Andyp » 22 Feb 2022, 09:36

A very nice man has leant me a biscuit jointer. Which I will use to aid the glue up of the table top but for the legs I can see a small problem.

03A81E76-BE5D-423C-AA11-C405DBAB2014.jpeg
(237.65 KiB)


Dowels the only option to add strength on those joints, I think.

I wonder why there is not a horizontal dowel boring machine along the lines of the biscuit and domino machines.
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby 9fingers » 22 Feb 2022, 10:00

There is nothing to stop you cutting the slots such that the biscuits protrude from the ends and trim them when dry. You could possible fit a no 20 in that way?
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Andyp » 22 Feb 2022, 12:45

I see, like this.

E8D54A89-702C-40E0-B306-32B03FDB011A.jpeg
(226.18 KiB)


I’ve not had chance yet to have a good look at the machine and cutter. How much bigger, lengthwise, is the hole than the biscuit? Position and precision are clearly going to be important.

As a slight aside I wonder when tools like that stopped being supplied in metal boxes.
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Craig Salisbury » 22 Feb 2022, 13:04

Andyp wrote:
I wonder why there is not a horizontal dowel boring machine along the lines of the biscuit and domino machines.


Do you mean like this?

https://www.toolstation.com/triton-tdj6 ... ter/p55427
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Andyp » 22 Feb 2022, 13:20

That’s a new one on me Craig.
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby 9fingers » 22 Feb 2022, 13:23

Andyp wrote:I see, like this.

E8D54A89-702C-40E0-B306-32B03FDB011A.jpeg


I’ve not had chance yet to have a good look at the machine and cutter. How much bigger, lengthwise, is the hole than the biscuit? Position and precision are clearly going to be important.

As a slight aside I wonder when tools like that stopped being supplied in metal boxes.


The blade is 100mm diameter I think, so you can work out the length of the chord for a given depth.
Depth must be a bit deeper than 1/2 a biscuit width to allow the joint to close.
Whilst there are preset depths for 0,10 and 20 biscuits, there are also other depth stops on the turret you can adjust to do what you want.
Deffo do test pieces befor you commit to the oak!

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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Andyp » 22 Feb 2022, 16:55

I've only had time to read the manual and watch a few vids. I hope that I can find some suitable, same thickness as the oak, scrap to practice on soon.
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Andyp » 16 Mar 2022, 16:32

A couple of hours in the workshop to do some test carving and biscuit cutting.

V&A Carving test.jpg
(167.53 KiB)


Comments welcome. needs more cleaning up methinks. I am going to get a detail sander to aid with the sanding. Doing the real thing in oak is gonna be nerve wracking.

I then thought I should have a dummy run with the biscuit jointer. Found some scrap oak of the right thickness
First up was to make an adapter for the dust extraction.
BiscuitDust Adapt.jpg
(339.16 KiB)


Biscuits cut.jpg
(322.35 KiB)

I found that the no 20 biscuits were a tight fit. needed a hammer to tap them home even without glue. The 0 biscuits were a loose fit.

Because they were I tight fit I decided to put glue in the slots
bisucuits glued.jpg
(261.85 KiB)


Clamped up.
Biscuit test Clamped.jpg
(324.18 KiB)


I found the jointer much easier to use than I expected. You cant quite see but the the wood was pushed up against a couple of bench stops. Would you folks recommend clamping the board down as well?
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Woodbloke » 16 Mar 2022, 16:53

9fingers wrote:Deffo do test pieces befor you commit to the oak!

Bob


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Wot Bob said. A dummy run on some gash pine or otherwise always, but always pays dividends - Rob

(Currently making a prototype tantalus and the whole thing is a total full size lash up in whatever gash pine I've found loafing around the 'shop. No working drawings though, so designing on the 'oof)
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Pete Maddex » 18 Mar 2022, 15:39

@Andyp Clamp your biscuits in a vise before using them, they swell up with the moisture in the air, do each end then you have something to hold on to.

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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Andyp » 18 Mar 2022, 17:49

OK Pete, thanks will do. They are stored in sealed plastic jars but I’ll give the next ones a quick squeeze before use.
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby 9fingers » 18 Mar 2022, 18:03

Andy my biscuits should all be bone dry. The size 20 in the herb container are known quality make but the three small containers are from aldi and could easily suffer from poor size control. I’ve used very few of those favouring no 20s but I realise you need smaller ones.
Maybe a bit of sanding to fit.

I’ve never tried compressing them as Pete suggests. Might help dunno

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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Andyp » 18 Mar 2022, 18:59

Just to reassure Bob, all the biscuits had remained in the tubs in the tool box until my test on Wednesday. It was the size 20 that needed a tap to seat them in the slot.

When it comes to do the actual table glue up should I joint the first two boards on their own or joint all the boards in one go?
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby 9fingers » 18 Mar 2022, 20:11

I tend to glue one or two joints at a time max and clamp alternate sides with at least one clamp in line with each biscuit or at least 3 clamps and always an odd number.
Generous glue and not so tight as to squeeze it all out but instead tight enough to keep it flat but that is just generic glue up principles nowt to do with biscuits per se

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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Woodbloke » 19 Mar 2022, 08:13

Andyp wrote:When it comes to do the actual table glue up should I joint the first two boards on their own or joint all the boards in one go?


9fingers wrote:I tend to glue one or two joints at a time max and clamp alternate sides with at least one clamp in line with each biscuit or at least 3 clamps and always an odd number.

Bob

Wot Bob said. Sometimes you'll need to do a glue up in one 'hit' but always best whenever possible to break it down into smaller, more easily managed ops - Rob
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Andyp » 31 Mar 2022, 16:34

I started cutting and sticking bits of oak together yesterday. Not the biscuited top yet just the smaller boards needed for the two V&A ends. Which I decided just to butt joint.

Thinking out loud for a moment. I am still undecided on how to fashion a bottom rail.
Remember this mockup which shows a long dowel?
F9ED9397-9C9E-4488-BC6F-A16AC46D05EF.jpeg
(471.61 KiB)


Supposing I were to acquire a suitable length of walnut dowel of a maximum diameter no greater than the cross piece of the A. How could I make a straight shouldered tenon on the end? I have looked at the various tenon cutters and they all appear to cut sloping shoulders. Like these veritas ones
806D684A-9EB2-4610-BBA0-3F269169D510.jpeg
(57.68 KiB)

At about 80cm in length it would be too long to do on my lathe.
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby 9fingers » 31 Mar 2022, 16:42

Domestic management and I were only talking about you and the table over a pub lunch yesterday, saying that next time you are over our way we would go there for dinner.
A possible solution:-
Turn some collars bored to fit onto your dowel and glue in place to form a tenon on each end.

Any good?

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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Andyp » 31 Mar 2022, 17:08

I’d like to keep the dowel rail as large, diameter, as possible for strength and rigidity. I was hoping for 1” diameter with a 5/8ths or 3/4” through tenon with perhaps a wedge.
If I were to add a collar I’d have to use a thinner dowel so as not to overlap the A’s crosspiece.

I was hoping to find a tenon cutter that cuts straight rather than sloping shoulders.

I’ll let you know about next visit, may not be before term starts in September.
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby AndyT » 31 Mar 2022, 17:09

If you want to do that with a power tool, Chris Schwarz says you can use a large plug cutter:

https://blog.lostartpress.com/2022/03/0 ... eg-tenons/

But I'd mark round, saw down all round with a tenon saw to the required depth (maybe with a depth stop d/s taped to the saw) then pare in from the ends and finish with a rasp.

But is there a risk of people putting too much weight on a long dowel if they rest their feet on it?

Have you considered a pair of struts going up from each end, sloping up towards the underside of the table?

Or a nice metal bar?
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby 9fingers » 31 Mar 2022, 17:21

On second thought, I don't think a round dowel would look right.

I'd favour a curved topped spar slightly thinner than the bar of the A but following its curvature. A rectangular tenon on the end into a blind mortise in the A and pegged from below.

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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Malc2098 » 31 Mar 2022, 17:22

Just to throw a spanner in the works, I could imagine a slightly curved (reflecting the curve on the letters) brace starting in the middle of the 'A' cross bar and going up to the underside of the table.

My brain says that might look tasteful and in proportion with the letter ends.

You could get away with a square (oblong) mortise and tenon at each end of the brace.
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby Malc2098 » 31 Mar 2022, 17:23

Bob beat me to pressing 'send'! :D
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Re: V & A coffee table

Postby 9fingers » 31 Mar 2022, 17:25

Malc2098 wrote:Bob beat me to pressing 'send'! :D


No Malc Your idea is different. Mine is a horizontal bar with curved cross section going end to end.

Yours is just a good though!

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