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Project Seven Doors

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Project Seven Doors

Postby RogerS » 21 Apr 2022, 09:57

Nothing really exciting TBH. Last seven internal doors needed in the house. This is the design..proportions based loosely on one in Bowood House.
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(Yes, I know it needed to have been made a bit bigger :oops: )

Each door slightly different dimensions to any others. Openings measured. Re-measured. Carefully drawn on SketchUp. Double-checked. Seventy+ pieces - keeping track of them is going to be fun! Mocked up one door with real wood to triple-check because all the rails and stiles will be cut to length at the same time.

Previous doors have been one-offs but this time, especially with the limitations of a combination machines, it's batch-job time. All the scribes will be done at the same time, for example.

So to start, just loads and loads of planing and thicknessing of this lot.

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Followed by interminable moulding.

Not sure I can say much more TBH. Shout if anyone's got any questions. I'll be resurfacing in a few days time :D
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby Andyp » 21 Apr 2022, 12:14

Good luck Roger, I hope it all goes well. Seven doors in one go is a helluva job and about 6 more than I would dream of doing.
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby TrimTheKing » 21 Apr 2022, 12:35

Andyp wrote:Is this what the hemlock is for?


Yep, for if he gets it wrong... :eusa-whistle:
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby RogerS » 21 Apr 2022, 13:13

LOL.... yup, hemlock for the stiles (complete with shakes :evil: ). If they appear worse than I think then I'll simply bodge it aka screw through to keep it all together. Tempus fugit and all that.
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby Cabinetman » 21 Apr 2022, 19:35

Seven doors is quite an ambitious project Roger, looking at those knots they look a bit dark, and maybe the sort that are crumbly, you may have to drill and plug them?
What wood are you using for the panels? Do hope you remembered to weigh in what width your planer thicknesser can handle or else that’s an awful lot of hand planing to do. Ian
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby RogerS » 21 Apr 2022, 21:06

Cabinetman wrote:Seven doors is quite an ambitious project Roger, looking at those knots they look a bit dark, and maybe the sort that are crumbly, you may have to drill and plug them?
What wood are you using for the panels? Do hope you remembered to weigh in what width your planer thicknesser can handle or else that’s an awful lot of hand planing to do. Ian


Not a problem, Ian. Ply...or maybe MDF.
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby Doug » 21 Apr 2022, 21:51

RogerS wrote:
Ply...or maybe MDF.


I’d definitely consider MDF, I made 11 of these with MDF veneered panels really pleased with the board & a doddle to use.

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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby RogerS » 22 Apr 2022, 05:28

I'll have a look at that Doug ...but not veneered...Also I already have the ply cut down to workable sizes.
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby Cabinetman » 22 Apr 2022, 13:43

No doubt you were going to do it anyway, good time to fill the grain a bit on the ply Roger, much easier now than when in the frames. Ian
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby RogerS » 22 Apr 2022, 15:02

Cabinetman wrote:No doubt you were going to do it anyway, good time to fill the grain a bit on the ply Roger, much easier now than when in the frames. Ian



Good point. Any recommendations as to product type, Ian ?
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby Cabinetman » 22 Apr 2022, 15:22

No not really, sorry – I just use any wall type filler, but I’m sure somebody on here will have a good/better idea.
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby RogerS » 22 Apr 2022, 18:00

Cabinetman wrote:No not really, sorry – I just use any wall type filler, but I’m sure somebody on here will have a good/better idea.


:text-goodpost: I'd never have thought of using that type of filler. Got lots of that.
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby RogerS » 01 May 2022, 09:31

Update

If anyone is interested, this is the starting point of getting a custom spindle moulder cutter made. The design is very similar to that found on modern doors but I asked for the curve to me more ovolo than the modern (and boring) arc. My drawings were sent to Whitehill who produced this.
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I review, approve and sign in blood. Two cutters - scribe and profile. And this is what it produces..M&T purists should look away now.

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Yup, that's a Domino (too small on this prototype)

None of the doors have the same dimensions and I spent a long, long time measuring up, checking and re-measuring which were then copied into a simple spreadsheet. Why ? Well, if you notice the moulding profile loses 13mm in the length (or requires 13mm adding) and so when measuring the width of the rails and the length of the centre stile pieces, one has to factor this in. The simple spreadsheet was the easiest way to do this. That then gave me the lengths that I needed for the rails and centre stiles.

I then made a checklist and assigned my timber to see what to cut where and labelled the ends of each piece. Double-checked. Triple-checked. Crossed off on the checklist.

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But with all these pieces I knew I would still make a cock-up and so I thicknessed up some spare timber.

Checking measurements yet again, bit the bullet and ended up with seven sets of rails
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and seven sets of centre stiles
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At this point, I realised that I'd made a slight cock-up as the original spreadsheet had the actual size of the frame but I'd not factored in cutting a bit off top and bottom to give the door (a) clearance and (b) trimming at an angle if (when) the frame was out of square. I'd gone through the spreadsheet adjusting the length of the outer stiles but not factored that through to the length required for the centre stiles. So....

...painstakingly marked out the 13mm offsets required, laid the centre stiles down, marked off where the bottom stile was too long (usually only 5mm or so) and trimmed it.

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When I made the first couple of doors, one thing I learnt very quickly was that, due to the profile of the cutter and using domino's, dimensioning and machining had to be spot on. First thing was to thickness all the timber in one pass. Not go back and forth adjusting the thicknesser for other tasks as I'd done before. Also precision in domino machining paramount.

The other point to note is that, again, due to the offset from the cutter profile, I need to have an extra depth cut into the scribed ends. This time I'm using 12mm x 100mm dominos and so the settings on the D700 was 50mm and 65mm. And so many hours later, everything domino cut.

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Notice that on those components that only have the profile moulded on one edge (outside stiles, top and bottom rails) I will mark up which edge it is using chalk.

Time to mould the profiles and scribes ? Not quite. I find it much easier to cut the slots for the hinges and the holes for the door latch while the stiles are 'au naturel'.

TBC
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby Andyp » 01 May 2022, 10:10

Impressive and bridge building at the same time. Kudos.
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby SamQ aka Ah! Q! » 02 May 2022, 22:02

and bridge building at the same time


Yup. I did offer him a troll for when he had finished it... :eusa-whistle:
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby RogerS » 02 May 2022, 22:32

SamQ aka Ah! Q! wrote:
and bridge building at the same time


Yup. I did offer him a troll for when he had finished it... :eusa-whistle:


You know that I have a neighbouring troll :evil: One who threw a brick at my car today.
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby RogerS » 06 May 2022, 10:59

Hinge rebates cut and trimmed. Not the world's best. Hole for door lock....two passes with the Domino on its longest reach and offset with spacers (green) to get the required width. Timber turned over in between passes.

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And the timber also flipped round because the Domino doesn't have enough depth in a single pass.

And a quick trial fit of the door lock told me that I needed a small inset cut into the end of the lock rail and which you can see in the picture above.

Not until I had finished them all did I remember that I had this in the workshop !

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But TBH I found the Domino much easier to use as the bench gave much needed support for the long stiles. If I'd used the morticer I'd have had to clear a load of space, drag it out, organise supports...nah...too much faffing around and so after I've made the front door I will be selling it. If not before.

I used some of my 'spare' stock to finesse the height and depth adjustment of the spindle moulder cutters. Two new false fences - one for the scribe and one for the profile....do it properly this time - last time I was lazy and tired using the same false fence...not a great success as the opening needed for the profile was a tad too large for that needed for the scribe.

But not a bad fit once finally tweaked

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In theory, once it's all set-up and provided I don't move the height adjuster or the fence then just swapping the cutters over should give me a perfect fit. Height adjustment sorted by taking a photo of this

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First try...not bad...slight tweak needed to drop the scribe a bit tighter onto the profile

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Now the quirks are tight but you can see that the cutters aren't perrfectly made around the ovolo curve. But good enough.

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And after a few hours of utter boredom....

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Thank God for Deep Purple and my Bluetooth ear defenders.
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby NickM » 06 May 2022, 16:26

Looks a good job. I’d lose the plot trying to do that many at once!
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby Andyp » 06 May 2022, 16:32

NickM wrote:Looks a good job. I’d lose the plot trying to do that many at once!


My thoughts exactly.
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby RogerS » 06 May 2022, 16:41

Label, check, label. All the time !

And yet I still managed to cock it up. The last bottom rail....demob happy...and I profiled the wrong edge :(

Image

Not that great an issue to resolve.
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby RogerS » 06 May 2022, 22:04

So took this photo of the door lock showing the need to cut a rebate in the lock rail.

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And note to self. When making witness marks make sure they are long enough and NOT removed by the profiling :oops:
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because, taking all the bits for one door and dry-assembling showed that, like Houston, we have a problem.

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So back to first principles and start at one end and gradully assemble to see where the problem lies. Maybe I've got some pieces the wrong way round :eusa-think:

First thing I found was that the cutters are not quite symmetrical and that the two quirks are slightly out. Which, I admit, is surprising.

Image

The error is doubled because I'm scribing both ends and as it was getting late wasn't able to check the profile cutters.

Fresh pair of eyes (and brain) called for on the morrow.
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby RogerS » 16 May 2022, 09:37

Well, one thing was certain and that was the bottom stile slightly too long which pushed the bottom rail out. How to fix ? Rescribe the end ? Awful lot of messing about resetting the moulder etc ...ah, the joys of a Combi (not). Nope...no structural demands and so just cut and rejoin with Domino's.

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Glue up time.
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Check for squareness. Check for wind.

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Hang it. Discovered that after trimming the lock stile to fit, I'd not made the recess in the end of the lockrail deep enough to clear the door lock. Note to self : deepen the remaining six lock rails as a batch process.

Image

Really bad parallax (?) distortion with a mobile phone camera

Only another six to go :eusa-dance:
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby RogerS » 16 May 2022, 09:42

So started to dry assemble the second door and immediately ran into the same problem as with the other door.

Top rail out of alignment
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Ditto bottom rail by a similar amount.

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Not sure what's happening but, as my builder would say, "We are where we are". Simplest option is to trim the top and bottom rails before assembly. I can investigate where things have gone wrong later. Bit disappointed in myself though TBH.
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby Andyp » 16 May 2022, 20:19

Nobody else will ever know Roger.
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Re: Project Seven Doors

Postby RogerS » 23 May 2022, 09:07

Three down ....

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Four down ....

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Three to go ... :)

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The sharp-eyed among you will maybe have spotted the small gaps between the shoulders of the rails and the stile. And yet, the ovolo is very tight. Which suggests to me that Whitehill didn't quite make the scribe and profile cutters for me matching ? Unless I'm setting them up wrong but if so, I can't see where/how.

I also noticed that all four doors have had the same 'error' that I mentioned earlier on. I've looked and looked and rechecked the measures and re-run the spreadsheet but blowed if I can see where it's come in.
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