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French Polish Problem.

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French Polish Problem.

Postby Peri » 13 Apr 2021, 21:18

So, I had a commission for a chess board.

I tried several finishes, but wasn't happy with any of them, so had a go at my first proper FP'd piece.

Totally happy with the result, no problem there.

I left the job for 4 or 5 days, things still looking great so I decided to give it a coat of clear bri-wax (tbh I'm not sure why, I wouldn't do it again....still).

Left the piece for another couple of days. Today I noticed a hairline fracture in the finish, looks like the maple square has shrunk by a gnats. It's hard to see, but you can feel it.

So I'd normally flat the whole top with some 1000 emery and put another coat of FP on - only now its got the wax on it.

I assume I need to remove the wax - whats the best way to remove it? Do I have to resort to sanding everything back to bare wood?

I've got cellulose thinners, IPA, meths, turps and white spirit - any of those help?

Thanks.
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Re: French Polish Problem.

Postby Trevanion » 13 Apr 2021, 22:17

That's an interesting conundrum, and a lovely-looking chessboard, Peri.

I'd personally try re-waxing over the spot first and buffing it out again and see if the wax will fill the hairline crack adequately.

Typically, you'd use pure turpentine (not the Turps substitute stuff, that's just re-labeled white spirit) for removing wax, but I'm not exactly sure how the shellac would behave to having turpentine on it.
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Re: French Polish Problem.

Postby AJB Temple » 13 Apr 2021, 23:34

I agree. Pure turpentine will shift the wax and should not harm the shellac at all. Do a test first with a cotton bud. But I would re-wax and polish first as T suggested.
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Re: French Polish Problem.

Postby Peri » 13 Apr 2021, 23:52

That was my first thought to - maybe I could buff it out, but it didn't work.

It feels (although it's hard to be certain) as if the edges if the crack have risen slightly.

I wonder if sanding the area with some 1500 or 2000 emery and rewaxing will fix it...... I have a feeling I'm going to have to re-do it :(
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Re: French Polish Problem.

Postby Trevanion » 14 Apr 2021, 00:00

Thing is, it's wood at the end of the day and it does indeed move, especially something that has been made in the winter months coming into the summer. If you re-do the workpiece now, chances are it might happen again fairly soon afterward on another section of the board, perhaps it would be best to leave the board equalise with a bit more time, then consider re-doing it if it's stayed the same or gotten worse.

Out of curiosity, what did you glue it with?
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Re: French Polish Problem.

Postby Peri » 14 Apr 2021, 07:13

Glued with Titebond 2.

I only have turpentine substitute - but I do have a bottle of acetone I forgot about if that helps.

I've had the board in the house for about 6 weeks before I started to finish it. I know ideally it should have been left longer, but when it's for a customer you cant really say 'Come back in 12 months and it'll be ready' :D :D
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Re: French Polish Problem.

Postby RogerS » 14 Apr 2021, 09:18

Peri wrote:....
It feels (although it's hard to be certain) as if the edges if the crack have risen slightly.

...


Could the glue have failed in that area ? I hope not as it's a beautiful piece of craftsmanship.
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Re: French Polish Problem.

Postby RogerS » 14 Apr 2021, 09:20

Peri wrote:.....
I only have turpentine substitute - but I do have a bottle of acetone I forgot about if that helps.
.


NO !!!!

Acetone can soften and/or remove shellac.
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Re: French Polish Problem.

Postby Peri » 14 Apr 2021, 10:40

Thanks Roger.

I plan on doing a lot more French polishing, so I've just ordered some pure naphtha. I believe this is recommended for spiriting off. Any thoughts on the suitability of that as a wax remover?
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Re: French Polish Problem.

Postby RogerS » 14 Apr 2021, 11:07

Peri wrote:Thanks Roger.

I plan on doing a lot more French polishing, so I've just ordered some pure naphtha. I believe this is recommended for spiriting off. Any thoughts on the suitability of that as a wax remover?


I'm afraid not, Peri.
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Re: French Polish Problem.

Postby droogs » 14 Apr 2021, 11:13

As much as I love to use traditional methods and materials, I do have a couple of "rules" I tend to follow.
1. If the veneer/marquetry is going on man-made substrate/ground and has a lot of perpendicular grain orientation then it is usually OK to use natural finishes as well as chemical (resins/poly etc)

2. If the veneer/marquetry is going on a solid wood substrate/ground and has a lot of perpendicular grain orientation then it is usually NOT OK to use natural finishes so only chemical (resins/poly etc). Here I would use Waterclear resin to completely seal the piece all around

There is a rider on this and that is - What is the heating system in the location that the piece is going into and how much of a humidity change does the location get over the course of the year? which will dictate whether I use air or kiln dried solid wood for the ground or use MRMDF for the ground

With regard to you problem, I would clean about 4" dia around with pure turps and then redo that area and slowly build up the crack with shellac first and once I was certain it was levelish would then continue to do the full area. Once happy re-wax

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Re: French Polish Problem.

Postby Peri » 14 Apr 2021, 13:12

Thanks Droogs.

It's not a veneer, it's 1 3/4" thick solid wood, which I suppose is the root cause of the problem.

Proper turps seems to be the one chemical I don't actually have - figures :)
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Re: French Polish Problem.

Postby Trevanion » 14 Apr 2021, 13:25

Peri wrote:Glued with Titebond 2.


I wonder if the problem is glue creep rather than the joint opening up, which can happen with PVAs like Titebond. Glue creep is when a little bit of the glue comes out of the joint after the fact and create a tiny hump along the joint, usually a side effect of too much glue when assembling.
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Re: French Polish Problem.

Postby Peri » 14 Apr 2021, 13:46

I did rather slather the glue on - what you're describing may will be the problem.
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Re: French Polish Problem.

Postby Peri » 14 Apr 2021, 14:43

Well that was easy.

I feel like I've made a bit of a mountain out of that particular mole hill.

Not confident with getting a repair to blend in, I used white spirit and 4-0 wool to de-wax, flatted with 2000 emery, recoated with FP and it feels perfect. A (very) sharp eye might detect a slightly thicker dark edge to the tile, but not noticeable at all. Under a light the surface looks flawless - and all took less than an hour :)


Thanks folks.
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