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It’s getting closer

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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby RogerS » 23 May 2021, 08:40

9fingers wrote:Roger. ISTR that you were on a mixed jab trial?
Did you find out which jabs you had in the end?
Bob


I did and no, I don't and won't until the end of the trial some 8 months hence. Some interesting side-effects though. Some they are suggesting have nothing at all to do with Mix'n'Match. :eusa-whistle:
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby 9fingers » 23 May 2021, 08:49

RogerS wrote:
9fingers wrote:Roger. ISTR that you were on a mixed jab trial?
Did you find out which jabs you had in the end?
Bob


I did and no, I don't and won't until the end of the trial some 8 months hence. Some interesting side-effects though. Some they are suggesting have nothing at all to do with Mix'n'Match. :eusa-whistle:


Have you ended up with any proof of second jab being given? Just wondering if we do end up needing to show proof of double jabbing for travel etc whether you will be disadvantaged?
My card FWIW states which vaccine and batch codes along with dates.

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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby Alf » 23 May 2021, 09:28

RogerS wrote:
Alf wrote:
RogerS wrote:Mmmm....todays newspaper reports are redefining 'highly'. Recent results from PHE say that two doses of Pfizer or AZ are 'highly' effective against the Indian variant providing two doses have been given.

Pfizer is 88%. Yup, highly effective. It was 93% effective against the Kent variant.

AZ ? 60%. Now, I don't know about you but I don't think 60% is 'highly' effective. It was only 66% effective against the Kent variant.

OK...60 or 66% is better than catching Covid but I know which vaccine I'd rather have had. :(


There's some suggestion that the difference may be as much to do with how many AZ second jabs have been administered (owing to the longer delay between jabs)


No. Two doses was the criteria tested regardless of any delays

Alf wrote:, and also that AZ takes a little longer to reach full effectiveness. ....


They took all of that into account. AZ = 60% ....nearly 50:50 chance. I agree better than getting Covid but TBH let's be frank. Pfizer is the Gold Standard.


Better take that up with the Beeb then; only going on what they report. You seem in feisty mood, so I'm sure they'll enjoy that. ;)
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby RogerS » 23 May 2021, 09:33

9fingers wrote:
RogerS wrote:
9fingers wrote:Roger. ISTR that you were on a mixed jab trial?
Did you find out which jabs you had in the end?
Bob


I did and no, I don't and won't until the end of the trial some 8 months hence. Some interesting side-effects though. Some they are suggesting have nothing at all to do with Mix'n'Match. :eusa-whistle:


Have you ended up with any proof of second jab being given? Just wondering if we do end up needing to show proof of double jabbing for travel etc whether you will be disadvantaged?
My card FWIW states which vaccine and batch codes along with dates.

Bob


Therein lies the rub.

Because I took part in the COM-Cov2 trial, their IT systems cannot/not allowed to connect to NIMS (the main immunisation database and the one that drives the NHS App). So the system believes that I have not yet had my second dose and I am being bombarded with texts and letters encouraging me to get my second dose.

And as you rightly point out, there is also the practical aspect of foreign travel. The COM-Cov2 trial team are sending letters confirming the second jab out to the GPs of those who took part and also a copy to the triallists but would you chance your luck at foreign travel producing this letter and having it accepted as proof of the second vaccination? I wouldn't risk it. All that my Covid card says is "Covid-19 vaccine com cov trial 22/04/2021"

Any foreign travel is out of the question for me anyway but for another reason. The pre and/or post-Covid tests before travel. It is impossible to find out ahead of time what type of tests they are...nasal and throat or just nasal. Those where I have found the details are nasal and throat and so out of the question for me as I cannot do the throat swab nor will anyone do it for me. I could go and chance it but fear that I will end up like Tom Hanks and doomed to spend the rest of my life stranded at Preveza airport.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby RogerS » 23 May 2021, 09:36

Alf wrote:
RogerS wrote:
Alf wrote:...
There's some suggestion that the difference may be as much to do with how many AZ second jabs have been administered (owing to the longer delay between jabs)


No. Two doses was the criteria tested regardless of any delays

Alf wrote:, and also that AZ takes a little longer to reach full effectiveness. ....


They took all of that into account. AZ = 60% ....nearly 50:50 chance. I agree better than getting Covid but TBH let's be frank. Pfizer is the Gold Standard.


Better take that up with the Beeb then; only going on what they report. You seem in feisty mood, so I'm sure they'll enjoy that. ;)


Alf, I gave up long ago making any comment to the BBC as it all gets filtered out by their external third-party Crapita. All you get back is a mealy-mouthed boiler-plate reply.

Anyway, we all know about how accurate the BBC is in its reporting given a recent report :eusa-whistle:
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby Andyp » 23 May 2021, 12:24

presumably even if it is only 60% effective if you do catch the variant the seriousness of the infection will be reduced?
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby RogerS » 23 May 2021, 18:50

Bloody good job I'm not trying travel anywhere because logically I do not qualify for the two-jab status. Why ?

Because Novavax is not an approved Covid vaccine yet. Those on the Novavax trial have found this out to their cost as they can't get an official NHS Vaccine status letter.

But those of us in the COM-Cov2 trial are in exactly the same boat because one of the trial vaccines is Novavax. But because we're blinded (why, I'm not quite sure) it means that we might or might not have the unapproved Novavax vaccine as our second jab. The blinding means that we all don't qualify by default.

Great.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby Harv-53 » 31 May 2021, 19:54

Today I’ve totally lost my sense of smell and taste, they were very poor to start with but this morning I had my Sunday bacon sarnie ( I know it’s Monday but I didn’t have one yesterday ! ) smothered in English mustard, first bite absolutely no taste, tried again no taste at all, off around the house to test my sense of smell, garlic-nothing, coffee- nothing, after shave - nothing, other than the loss of taste and smell I’ve no other symptoms.
I went for a Covid test pronto and am awaiting result.
It’s the weirdest thing eating with no flavour, I’ve just made chicken burgers with an extreme amount of chilli, marinated since this morning, her nagesty couldn’t do more than one bite, I just wolfed mine down, not even the slightest bit of taste.
I’ve had my first jab ( AZ in March) hopefully 2nd one next Monday.

Edited to add result.
Result back in around 5 hrs, Negative thankfully.
Still have no sense of smell or taste
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby RogerS » 01 Jun 2021, 12:11

And us triallists are still stuffed. Just got this email from Pandemic research.

Typical Government weasel-words that say absolutely SFA. Utter and total BS. It says absolutely nothing. There is no getting around the fact that we have been and continue to be disadvantaged. Madeira ? No chance. Cruise ? No chance.

Government statement on vaccine certification and clinical trial participation
Issued 28 May 2021

Clinical trials of Covid-19 vaccinations are critical for responding to COVID-19. They are a global public health good. Those who are taking part in them are creating great benefit for the rest of the world.

Being in a COVID-19 vaccine trial, in either active or placebo arm, should not disadvantage you, and the Government intend to take any action available to ensure that this is the case.

The Government will ensure that information on those in clinical trials vaccine is linked to mechanisms to demonstrate your vaccine status to ensure that anyone on a vaccine clinical trial can prove they are in a clinical trial and therefore should be treated as vaccinated.

The Government position is that a vaccine should not be a requirement for travel at this time. This is aligned to the current WHO approach to international travel. Discussions are ongoing with other countries, including through groups such as the G7, the EU Commission, and the WHO to shape the approach taken around the world to sharing health status for travel, including vaccination status. As a global public health good, the UK Government will make the case that anyone on a COVID-19 vaccine trial should be treated the same in terms of certification as someone who has received a deployed vaccine.

We appreciate that even for participants not currently planning to travel, qualifying for vaccine certification is important and we do not want any trial participants to be disadvantaged, nor to feel disadvantaged. Everyone is committed to getting this issue sorted out as quickly as possible and NIHR will provide a further update in the week beginning 7 June. The latest information including updated FAQs is available on the Be Part of Research website https://bepartofresearch.nihr.ac.uk/Vac ... news/index


Last time I volunteer for a trial. I'll give them until end of August to get their act together. If they don't then I'll go and get my second AZ jab and sod the trial results.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby Trevanion » 04 Jun 2021, 21:20

Had my first jab today, it was kind of a surreal experience, to be honest, as it's the first public building I've been in for about 15 months give or take.

Moderna, no real side effects yet after 10 hours of having it, fortunately, although in the last couple of hours my arm has become very mildly sore where I was stabbed, not dissimilar to how a bruise feels.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby novocaine » 04 Jun 2021, 21:43

Today I've had my second jab cancelled. Which is annoying. So I'll Rebook it tomorrow and who knows, I might get it sooner.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby Andyp » 05 Jun 2021, 08:03

Had my 2nd last Thursday which means after the 9th June I can get back into this country using the Jab Confirmation QR code on my phone rather than a PCR test. Fingers crossed the UK does something similar soon as I need to get over there.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby RogerS » 05 Jun 2021, 08:59

Trevanion wrote:Had my first jab today, it was kind of a surreal experience, to be honest, as it's the first public building I've been in for about 15 months give or take.

Moderna, no real side effects yet after 10 hours of having it, fortunately, although in the last couple of hours my arm has become very mildly sore where I was stabbed, not dissimilar to how a bruise feels.


Ah, Moderna...one of the excellent mRNA type vaccines. Like Pfizer.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby Cabinetman » 05 Jun 2021, 18:03

With shingles sometimes thrown in as a side-effect! Friend of mine had it she said it was extremely painful.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby RogerS » 05 Jun 2021, 18:35

Cabinetman wrote:With shingles sometimes thrown in as a side-effect! Friend of mine had it she said it was extremely painful.


Did she have any co-morbidities such as rheumatoid arthritis ? That seems to be a trigger according to Google.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby Andyp » 05 Jun 2021, 19:03

Cabinetman wrote:With shingles sometimes thrown in as a side-effect! Friend of mine had it she said it was extremely painful.


I agree with that. 2007 just after we moved here, undoubtedly bought on by the stress of the removals firm only arriving with half our stuff.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby RogerS » 11 Jun 2021, 21:50

Government statement on vaccine certification and clinical trial participation
Issued 11 June 2021


Clinical trials of Covid-19 vaccinations are critical for responding to COVID-19. They are a global public health good. Those who are taking part in them are creating great benefit for the rest of the world.

Being in a COVID-19 vaccine trial, in either active or placebo arm, should not disadvantage you, and the Government intend to take no action to ensure that this is the case.

The Government has no plans to ensure that information on those in clinical trials vaccine is linked to mechanisms to demonstrate your vaccine status. This means that anyone on a vaccine clinical trial cannot prove they are in a clinical trial and therefore treated as vaccinated.

The Government position is that a vaccine should not be a requirement for travel at this time. However, cruise ship companies do require this. To watch the football championship match also requires your NHS App to show your vaccination status. At this moment in time, it can’t do this nor for the foreseeable future. And frankly, you’d be stupid to think that they give a s**t.

When the Covid-Booster programme starts in September, only those with proof on their NHS App showing the prerequisite double Astra-Xeneca or double Pfizer jabs will be eligible. Those disenfranchised on the COM-Cov2 trial will not be eligible because the IT systems cannot communicate your status between themselves.

The Government approach is to hide behind the current WHO approach to international travel. Discussions are ongoing with other countries, including through groups such as the G7, the EU Commission, and the WHO to shape the approach taken around the world to sharing health status for travel, including vaccination status. The Government likes discussions as it avoids us actually having to either make any decisions or do anything.

As a global public health good, the UK Government will make the case that anyone on a COVID-19 vaccine trial should be treated the same in terms of certification as someone who has received a deployed vaccine. We will grudgingly make the case but won’t try that hard.

We appreciate that even for participants not currently planning to travel, qualifying for vaccine certification is important but we couldn’t care less if any trial participants are disadvantaged, or feel disadvantaged. The Government is paying lip-service in saying that everyone is committed to getting this issue sorted out as quickly as possible and NIHR will provide a further update in the week beginning {insert any date you like here}. This update will also be filled with weasel words and promise no solution. The latest information including updated FAQs is available on the Be Part of Research website https://bepartofresearch.nihr.ac.uk/Vac ... news/index where you will find even more weasel words.

The Government advice is that if you are gullible enough to be taken in by our empty promises then you take part in these trials at your risk.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby RogerS » 13 Jun 2021, 09:49

OK - they said they'd tell us more week beginning June 7. Nothing arrived. But apparently Professor Van-Tam posted an Open Letter to Trial Participants regarding this on the Govt website on the 11th. Pity they didn't bother to let the trial participants know. Pure happenchance a mate of mine mentioned it.

Full of errors, mind you and a bizarre paragraph that I can't make head nor tail of. Can any of you make sense of it ?

Participants in well-regulated clinical trials should also not be disadvantaged as global travel resumes. We believe the added risk of allowing the relatively small number of clinical trial participants to travel (in the UK approximately 40,000 people, the vast majority of whom have been vaccinated) is strongly outweighed by the benefit of ensuring that recruitment and retention into clinical trials can continue.

They claim that we will not be disadvantaged. Erm..actually we already are. Try going to watch a Euro 2020 match. Or go on a cruise.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby Just4fun » 13 Jun 2021, 14:57

RogerS wrote:They claim that we will not be disadvantaged.

Actually no. The text you quoted does not say you "will not be disadvantaged" it says you "should also not be disadvantaged". There is a big difference. Probably everyone agrees that you should not be disadvantaged but it is also clear to everyone that you will be disadvantaged. Typical political double-speak, and unfortunately you are the loser because of it.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby spb » 13 Jun 2021, 15:01

RogerS wrote:Full of errors, mind you and a bizarre paragraph that I can't make head nor tail of. Can any of you make sense of it ?

Participants in well-regulated clinical trials should also not be disadvantaged as global travel resumes. We believe the added risk of allowing the relatively small number of clinical trial participants to travel (in the UK approximately 40,000 people, the vast majority of whom have been vaccinated) is strongly outweighed by the benefit of ensuring that recruitment and retention into clinical trials can continue.

Well, this part is easy enough to translate into plain English. "We plan to watch various industries do things that disadvantage trial participants, wring our hands over how unfair it is, and do nothing about it."
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby RogerS » 18 Jun 2021, 15:26

Well, here's the rather sad thing and I really feel for the trial teams who have put their hearts and minds into the Com-Cov2 trial. Blinding gives another level of 'confidence' (if that's the right word) to the results.

But the senior top-level trial team realised that not having any reference numbers as to batch or vaccine due to the blinding would give a problem to a hard-coded app like the NHS App. But did nothing about it. And those who designed the NHS App probably never thought that someone at some point in time (although not hard to anticipate and so design for it) would want to trial mix'n'match of vaccines and that the trial would be blinded and so a database of batch numbers would probably need some sort of secure encoding of batch numbers to maintain batch anonymity.

But because of paragraph 2, and the Govt blithely saying no vaccine passport when a blind man could have told the that the NHS App would automatically become one once the vaccine status tab was programmed in, the only was to let us trial participants have the relevant NHS App saying we've had both doses is to unblind us.

So in a couple of weeks time, I will know which one I had. My money is on AZ.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby RogerS » 23 Jun 2021, 18:00

RogerS wrote:Well, here's the rather sad thing and I really feel for the trial teams who have put their hearts and minds into the Com-Cov2 trial. Blinding gives another level of 'confidence' (if that's the right word) to the results.

But the senior top-level trial team realised that not having any reference numbers as to batch or vaccine due to the blinding would give a problem to a hard-coded app like the NHS App. But did nothing about it. And those who designed the NHS App probably never thought that someone at some point in time (although not hard to anticipate and so design for it) would want to trial mix'n'match of vaccines and that the trial would be blinded and so a database of batch numbers would probably need some sort of secure encoding of batch numbers to maintain batch anonymity.

But because of paragraph 2, and the Govt blithely saying no vaccine passport when a blind man could have told the that the NHS App would automatically become one once the vaccine status tab was programmed in, the only was to let us trial participants have the relevant NHS App saying we've had both doses is to unblind us.

So now instead of only 500 being disadvantaged, there are 1500 in our trial being disadvantaged. Just damn glad I pulled out of the Novavax trial.

So in a couple of weeks time, I will know which one I had. My money is on AZ.


And now I won't. In a remarkable albeit unsurprising volte face they are now NOT doing a mass-unblinding but 'will apply for approval to unblind if there is a genuine urgent need.' Yeah...right. The driver for that is that Novavax is, as yet, unapproved and so any of us who have had that one would be at a disadvantage re international travel.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby MY63 » 26 Jun 2021, 09:15

Roger This is on the BBC news website front page this morning.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57566837
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby Phil » 26 Jun 2021, 13:09

We both had our first shots (wife 2 weeks before me)
She took a chance and went and stood in a queue at one of the walk-ins at a pharmacy. Took her 3 hours.

It is Pzr which seems to be the only one in bulk supplied at the moment. JJ is also being used to a lesser degree.

My invite was for "be here between 12:00 and 14:00"
Arrived at 12:00, seated outside in the car park
Seated at the back end of the musical chairs I counted 100 people ahead of me.
Social distancing at all times. WHAT social distancing!
When I eventually moved into the building there were 100 people filling the chairs and a number standing waiting for chairs.
Inside the building there must have been at least another 80 in various areas.
Eventually you get to the last gathering place just waiting for the jab.
6 Jabbers on duty. Once jabbed another 15 minute wait to see if there are any negative reactions.
I left the building at 16:00 That was 4 hours but worth it.
No side effects, mildly sore spot on arm, absolute breeze!

They do your logging in via an online system connected to the Gov site.
The jabber has an i-Pad which she again checks all your details, logs the shot and then gives you a card with the vaccination number and a date for the second shot, first and last date. If you miss this, you have to start all over again! :cry:
I also received an SMS with the vaccination number.
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Re: It’s getting closer

Postby RogerS » 26 Jun 2021, 14:29

MY63 wrote:Roger This is on the BBC news website front page this morning.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57566837


Thanks, Michael. The BBC article is incorrect AFAIK in that he must have a vaccine passport or somesuch in order to travel. He can go and get the various tests etc to prove he's negative.

Also there is nothing to prevent him from getting the official jabs as long as he keeps shtum about the Novavax trial because the two systems don't talk to each other. Of course, he does then have to make a decision as to what the results might be between the two vaccines.

The first two pages of the website regarding becoming a triallist go into great detail telling us how it's all going to be hunky-dory etc etc BS BS BS. TBH they've screwed this one up big time, back-pedalling for all they are worth and probably dissuading anyone volunteering for vaccine trials in the future.

We've been away for a couple of days and just got back to find in our letterbox :-

1) second vacuous letter 'To Whom it May Concern'...I can just see me waving this in front of a border official in a country requiring confirmation of two-jab status

2) an envelope containing three Covid tests. Now what's all that about ? No accompanying letter. Are we all being sent these ? Whatever. They ain't being used because they're the ones where you shove a swab down your throat and (a) my tongue gets in the way and (b) my gag reflex precludes that type of test.

So ...they can go forth and swivel.
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