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Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

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Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby RogerS » 12 Jun 2020, 12:09

I've got an outside terrace to tile using bloody heavy 800 x 400 porcelain tiles. 5.6m x 3.2m - approx 56 tiles in total. 20mm thick. Originally planned to use the traditional approach of tile adhesive and notched. Only trouble with that approach is how do you lay them without having to wait a day for the adhesive to dry underneath the previous row. As with that sort of size I can't easily see how one can reach over the layer just laid to do the next one. Youtube isn't much help.

The very thick solid concrete (well hardened) substrate has the right slope on it and good to go. Only trouble is that the finished height of the slab assumed the traditional tile fixing approach.

So I looked into pedestal systems (totally new to me as a concept) and most seemed too high. But the lowest one is the Eterno Ivica Star.T. at 10mm..which is the thickness of adhesive!

https://www.eternoivica.com/en/posts/ne ... n-supports

Height-wise it's perfect..the only downside I can see is that you don't grout between the tiles.

Anyone used this system before ?

Would not having any grout be bad ? The gaps between the tiles when laid look to be quite small..maybe 2mm.

The other downside is cost...£200 by my reckoning. :( But my fingers and thumbs aren't what they used to be and my years allowance of profanities has already been used up on other projects.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby TrimTheKing » 12 Jun 2020, 12:21

Erm, surely you start at one place and work towards yourself rather than working away, or am I missing something here...
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby RogerS » 12 Jun 2020, 13:19

TrimTheKing wrote:Erm, surely you start at one place and work towards yourself rather than working away, or am I missing something here...


Yup..that's also what Doug B suggested. The problem I have is that these tiles are so bloody heavy and I don't have the strength in my hands, thumbs or back to manhandle them into position by myself. So the missus was going to help me but I just can't see how the two of us can fit into the space, lean forward etc and drop the tile into place.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby TrimTheKing » 12 Jun 2020, 13:52

I think I'm missing something then as I don't see how that product helps with any of that! All that does is help to level them but you still need to physically manhandle them into position.

Can you not just get a box truck to wheel them as close to final position as possible then lower/flop them down onto the adhesive then wiggle into position?

I got one of these which I use to move heavy stuff around the workshop/garden and it's surprisingly strong for the price.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby Andyp » 12 Jun 2020, 14:05

You've got the tiles and adhesive and I guess grout. Is it time to get a man in? Tiler's daily rate against cost of those support gadgets?
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby RogerS » 12 Jun 2020, 14:12

TrimTheKing wrote:I think I'm missing something then as I don't see how that product helps with any of that! All that does is help to level them but you still need to physically manhandle them into position.

Can you not just get a box truck to wheel them as close to final position as possible then lower/flop them down onto the adhesive then wiggle into position?

I got one of these which I use to move heavy stuff around the workshop/garden and it's surprisingly strong for the price.


You can stand on the adjacent tiles straight away !

Got a handtruck already, thx. It's not that so much as dropping them into position. All that adhesive splashing out all over the place. Not enough adhesive...oh bugger..now I've got to try and lift the sod. Too much adhesive....ditto.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby RogerS » 12 Jun 2020, 14:14

Andyp wrote:You've got the tiles and adhesive and I guess grout. Is it time to get a man in? Tiler's daily rate against cost of those support gadgets?


I have some very old adhesive. Debatable if I should really be using it. Grouts not that expensive TBH.

But, most importantly, find a (decent) tiler....tricky.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby Robert » 12 Jun 2020, 16:21

Pedestal supports for paving is something I've never heard of before.

Just watched a youtube video and that showed paving slabs that were thick and about 400 square being installed.

Your tile 800 x 400 and 20mm thick being supported just on the corners (if i understand it correctly) sounds like a recipe for disaster. jump on a tile middle and go straight through?

Do they make those plastic alignment things for big tiles that clamp the corners for 20mm thick? Never used them but seen them in videos. You snap the peg off before grouting. Got to make conventional tile laying easier.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby RogerS » 12 Jun 2020, 17:05

Robert wrote:Pedestal supports for paving is something I've never heard of before.

Just watched a youtube video and that showed paving slabs that were thick and about 400 square being installed.

Your tile 800 x 400 and 20mm thick being supported just on the corners (if i understand it correctly) sounds like a recipe for disaster. jump on a tile middle and go straight through?

I spoke to Mandarin Stone who assure me that the porcelain tiles are strong enough. Having said that, if I do go for the Star.T system then I will be putting in dabs all over each tile area.

Robert wrote:Do they make those plastic alignment things for big tiles that clamp the corners for 20mm thick? Never used them but seen them in videos. You snap the peg off before grouting. Got to make conventional tile laying easier.


Yes, they do. Quite a lot of systems out there now. I've used them. They're OK-ish.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby MJ80 » 12 Jun 2020, 19:51

Have you got a tile lifter or some good sucker pads. The lifter was a real help laying the flags at mine.
Are you going to back butter the tiles rather than dabs? It's a much better method. I'd also chuck the old adhesive if it's really out of date.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby RogerS » 12 Jun 2020, 22:17

MJ80 wrote:Have you got a tile lifter or some good sucker pads. The lifter was a real help laying the flags at mine.
Are you going to back butter the tiles rather than dabs? It's a much better method. I'd also chuck the old adhesive if it's really out of date.


No need to back butter, Michael, or involve any adhesive if I go down the Star.T route. I'm getting more enamoured with the idea TBH.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby Doug » 13 Jun 2020, 09:12

RogerS wrote: Having said that, if I do go for the Star.T system then I will be putting in dabs all over each tile area.


You don’t want to do that, porcelain is notorious for staining, just putting dabs of adhesive on could lead to discolouration in those areas
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby RogerS » 13 Jun 2020, 10:29

Doug wrote:
RogerS wrote: Having said that, if I do go for the Star.T system then I will be putting in dabs all over each tile area.


You don’t want to do that, porcelain is notorious for staining, just putting dabs of adhesive on could lead to discolouration in those areas


But the dabs will be underneath the tiles or are you saying that stains will telegraph through from underneath ?
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby StevieB » 13 Jun 2020, 10:44

That plastic adjusting key looks to be a weak point in the system - I would want a few spares of those, especially if you are adjusting with the weight of a tile or two on top...... I also suspect your sub-base would need to be perfectly flat - you are adjusting 4 corners on each tile - getting each to line up with the surrounding 8 tiles is going to be a major pain and minor discrepancies will amplify over distance. I would be interested to see how you get on if you do go down this route.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby Rod » 13 Jun 2020, 11:22

I’ve always used a slab lifter when placing slabs.
My usual method is to level a layer of fine sand and cement (dry) then carefully placing the slabs on top leaving a gap between. The gap is then filled by brushing in the dry mix similar to block paving techniques. Over time the mix will harden but can be accelerated by gently misting with water.

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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby MJ80 » 13 Jun 2020, 11:26

Those star connectors look really good
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby RogerS » 14 Jun 2020, 11:08

One thought occurred to me and that is how coplanar the underside of the tiles are. Reason for saying this is that large format porcelain tiles have a tolerance on the top surface (ie they can be dished slightly along the length) which usually means that you need to stagger the tiles 1/3-2/3 rather than 50:50. If the undersides are also dished then that means rocking possibilities...not good.

So I'm going to get 30-35 of these pedestals to see how they go before committing.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby RogerS » 16 Jun 2020, 15:45

OK...pilot trial completed. OK...only three tiles but 100% success.

Positioning the discs is a doddle. Just need a bit of lateral thinking and some spare Correx and make up a template.
Image
(Actual placing irrelevant for the purposes of a trial)
Lift tile into place using the Rubi Rough Tile suction pad....stonkingly brilliant bit of kit....THANK YOU, Jonathan for the suggestion.
Image
And five minutes later
Image
I only needed to adjust the height of one of them which says a lot about the calibre of work my builder does. Just 1mm. Must have word with him next time I see him. Tsk tsk.

Downsides ?
They are slippy and so I will be putting some dabs of adhesive underneath when I come to do the job for real.

Grouting..well, the gap is much wider than I was led to believe at 5mm. SWMBO isn't too keen on zero grout. So since the tiles (a) don't rock (b) I can use an item from another range to block the gap at the bottom
Image
then I reckon grouting is possible.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby TrimTheKing » 16 Jun 2020, 16:38

Right, I'm not being funny here Rog but I still cannot see what benefit these give at all.

Your original concerns were hand/finger strength and maneuvering them into place, well that handle is going to take some gripping to shift a tile, I would hazard more than picking them up with two hands by the edges.

I can 100% see those tiles breaking in half the second you drop anything remotely of a weight on them being hollow underneath, and if you do put dabs then that strikes me you're doing the same job twice.

Come on, admit it, you just want to use a new technique and you're looking for a way to justify it to yourself/us... :eusa-whistle:

Now I don't have an issue with that at all, but be honest about it. This is a safe place!

:lol:
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby Andyp » 16 Jun 2020, 17:11

Laying them in that overlapping pattern has the advantage of using 6 sports for each tile, if you added an extra one against the wall, thus reducing the likelihood of the tiles breaking.

Good luck with the rest of the terrace.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby RogerS » 16 Jun 2020, 17:42

TrimTheKing wrote:Right, I'm not being funny here Rog but I still cannot see what benefit these give at all.

Your original concerns were hand/finger strength and maneuvering them into place, well that handle is going to take some gripping to shift a tile, I would hazard more than picking them up with two hands by the edges.


It's a completely different type of grip, Mark. The grip used for the handle is the same grip that wee babies have from birth. Phenomenally strong and easy to use. I lift (or was lifting) heavier weights than this in the gym !

TrimTheKing wrote:I can 100% see those tiles breaking in half the second you drop anything remotely of a weight on them being hollow underneath,


A valid point but (a) no kids (b) no-one we know who might visit has kids (c) I just need to be careful with that sledgehammer ;) As it turns out, I have spare tiles left over. Doddle to replace one. Try that with one cemented all over.

TrimTheKing wrote: and if you do put dabs then that strikes me you're doing the same job twice....


Not at all..applying shovelfuls of adhesive, trowelling them down, notching the adhesive, struggle with tile, drop it into place. Damn, too much adhesive...struggle to get fingers underneath, adhesive everywhere, watch out, you can't stand on that tile, it's not set....too late. Oh hell, here comes the rain.

As opposed to lay down nice clean plastic support. A little dab here. A little dab there. Doesn't matter if it's too high, because as a dab it will just squish to the right height. Oh did I just stand on that tile ? Doesn't matter. Look at my hands. Aren't they clean !

Admittedly it is more expensive than buying the adhesive. But for my peace of mind and sanity.... :D
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby TrimTheKing » 16 Jun 2020, 20:45

Damn you, an answer for everything!
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby woodstalker » 22 Jun 2020, 19:13

I'm planning on using the pedestal system on our roof terrace to carry the inside floor covering across the threshold to the roof decking. Interesting to see how you get on.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby RogerS » 22 Jun 2020, 19:18

woodstalker wrote:I'm planning on using the pedestal system on our roof terrace to carry the inside floor covering across the threshold to the roof decking. Interesting to see how you get on.



Are you going to use Eterno's or another make ? Seem to recall reading that on balconies you need a special type.
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Re: Eterno Ivica Star.T. tile support system.

Postby woodstalker » 22 Jun 2020, 21:23

RogerS wrote:
woodstalker wrote:I'm planning on using the pedestal system on our roof terrace to carry the inside floor covering across the threshold to the roof decking. Interesting to see how you get on.



Are you going to use Eterno's or another make ? Seem to recall reading that on balconies you need a special type.


Hi Rog,

I have looked at a few but to be honest we are at the design stage so don't have it all properly specc'd yet. Something like this is what we have in mind:

https://surface360.co.uk/products/paving-tile-support-systems

the raised deck at the back is going to be infilled underneath to create another lower ground floor room and the deck itself replaced with a flat roof. We are planning on a tile system so the structural engineer will take it into account when calculating the roof structure this is going to sit on.
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