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Bike economics

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Bike economics

Postby Lurker » 10 Sep 2021, 14:38

My bike belonged to my son and we bought it new when he was about 14.
Lived unused in the shed for a good 20 years, but when I retired I started to use it occasionally, the past year I have used it two or three times a week to go to the shops and fishing, never more than a few miles round trips as I am not a masochist like some folks around here.
A couple of weeks ago the twist grip gear selector broke .
I tried to get a replacement part but they ain’t cheap. This morning, I collected a bike that had been advertised on farcebook marketplace for the princely sum of 15 quid. Its got those two half frames with a shock absorber in the middle, shimado gears , I’d guess it is about 3 years old and little used. It’s a nice comfortable smooth ride.
The seat was tatty and it had no mudguards so I used the ones off the old bike . I posted the remains of the old bike in the same place, stressing that it was only fit for parts, have been offered £10 for it already ( bloke coming at 4 pm) and I only posted it an hour ago !
Last edited by Lurker on 10 Sep 2021, 15:33, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bike economics

Postby Just4fun » 10 Sep 2021, 14:53

A couple of years ago I was in the UK for a while and decided to get my old bike working so I had some transport. I took it into the local bike shop and asked them to do whatever was needed. The bike shop were quite wary about taking the job on an open-ended basis. I gathered that their usual customers were always looking for the cheapest possible solution and they were not used to a "just fix it" job. It is funny because they were comparing costs with cheaper DIY options whereas I was thinking that whatever it cost would be far cheaper than buying a car for the duration of my visit.

It surprised me that their customers are so penny-pinching. I thought cycles are expensive items these days, and expected my little job (which turned out to be about £100) to be small beer.
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Re: Bike economics

Postby novocaine » 10 Sep 2021, 15:34

not being a bike person, you may have no idea what you have or what it is worth. you may find that the bike you've just let go for a £10 because you think it's worth nothing is a vintage bit of kit worth a few hundred. what you've just bought is more likely to be a bike shaped object (BSO) which will be heavy, hard to ride and to be honest, horrible, not to mention, unlikely to last as well as what you had.

as with everything, information is king and what you think is a really good deal may turn out to be a complete lemon.
Carbon fibre is just corduroy for cars.
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Re: Bike economics

Postby Lurker » 10 Sep 2021, 15:52

novocaine wrote:not being a bike person, you may have no idea what you have or what it is worth. you may find that the bike you've just let go for a £10 because you think it's worth nothing is a vintage bit of kit worth a few hundred. what you've just bought is more likely to be a bike shaped object (BSO) which will be heavy, hard to ride and to be honest, horrible, not to mention, unlikely to last as well as what you had.

as with everything, information is king and what you think is a really good deal may turn out to be a complete lemon.


I am pretty sure that the scrap bike is not vintage, it was one of the first imports from the Far East I think.
I did worry that my new one was nicked and was prepared to walk if I thought that it was iffy.
The lady didn’t look like a fence to me :D and lived in a nice street, not that I have a clue about that short of thing. :eusa-shifty:
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Re: Bike economics

Postby AJB Temple » 10 Sep 2021, 16:21

On the radio yesterday, a cycling "expert" (stupid term in most instances) said that second hand bikes have doubled or tripled in value over the last year due to lifestyle changes arising from Covid (more demand for a sore bum presumably).

He also said that people should get their bikes fixed by "a professional bicycle mechanic" not do it themselves, else it would probably be unsafe. This seemed remarkably stupid to me. A bike is pretty simple. My dad had me fixing mine from the age of just over learning to ride. I rebuilt by girlfriends stormy archer 3 speed hub including re-spoking the wheel, when I was 15 so it can't be all that difficult. This tendency these days to suggest that everyone needs an expert or professional should be resisted I feel. I brought my son up to be capable of doing everything himself, whether he can afford to pay someone or not: don't create needless dependencies.
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Re: Bike economics

Postby novocaine » 10 Sep 2021, 16:39

a lot has changed in the past 30 years. materials have become thinner with less room for error.
I fully agree that someone competent in basic mechanics is able to maintain and repair their own bicycle, but I'm also painfully aware of people who I wouldn't want anywhere near something that, if failed, would end up with them under a bus. some of these people ride bikes worth considerable more than anything in my stable of bikes.
for my sins I'm qualified (or was a very long time ago) to work on bicycles, I still have the certificate somewhere. the people we used to get in the shop, you would not want them on the road with anything they had "maintained" themselves. remember that there are out there who ride round on bikes with forks on backwards, brakes hanging off, bald tyres and loose pedals, these are the things you can see, never mind poorly adjusted bearings, seized cranks, overtight headsets, loose bolts, the list goes on. yes a bike is simpler than say a car, but it is still complex enough that a poorly fitted item can be dangerous.

This might not seem like an issue to you, but given that a modern road bike can easily hit 20 MPH with a fat bloke at the helm, and considerable more on a downhill (41mph when I got overtaken by a BMW coming in to a blind dip on Wednesday this week) those things will have you on the floor very very easily and if there is car there at the time, you are dead. I'm confident that my bike is maintained to the best possible degree possible, I'd be happy for anyone to ride one of my bikes, although they may regret it given the setup I am still capable of riding.

the "expert" you speak of has to consider the lowest common denominator and tar everybody with the same brush for his own sake, they will be more than aware of how bad it can be if it goes wrong.

sorry, rant over. about a 30%.

Edit to add. This is main item maintenance. Replacing innertubes (if you have then) lubricating chains etc. Should be basic stuff that any rider knows how to do.
Carbon fibre is just corduroy for cars.
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Re: Bike economics

Postby AJB Temple » 10 Sep 2021, 19:15

As my bff business partner would say "I call bull rear end deposits" on that.

There is a marked tendency to "professionalise" lots of stuff now that is really quite basic. My father in law has a collection of bikes dating back through his life from when he was in his 20's. He is 75 now, cycles daily - typically 200km a week), still does senior races, is very fit, and uses Orbea, Pinarello, etc currently (different bikes for winter and summer too). I've helped him build up some of the latest gear (think 6000 euro frame) Bikes are not very complicated, especially at the consumer end of the scale which is what this radio piece was about. In some instances they are less complicated now with single piece carbon wheels etc (not conventional spokes).

I realise that electronic changers, and battery assisted bikes are beyond DIYers in most cases, but that is not a good reason for scaremongering (not directed at you but at the biased radio expert) about complexity that does not exist in typical consumer bikes. Brake systems on bikes (disk for example) are no more complex (in fact much less) than on motorbikes and cars. They are easy to replace and upgrade, including high pressure hydraulic systems. Deraillier mechanisms, cranks etc may use Carbon fibre and have close tolerances and less weight but in essence have changed little since the advent of self lubricating chains. I don't think we should routinely assume incompetence and discourage people. Forums like this demonstrate that many people are capable and willing to try. That was my objection to the biased so called expert: he was adopting a protective stance to drive business his way I felt.
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Re: Bike economics

Postby novocaine » 10 Sep 2021, 19:44

Your opinion,you are entitled to it. I disagree having seen the state of what people think is acceptable from the point of view of a shop mechanic dealing with the public.
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Re: Bike economics

Postby Woodster » 10 Sep 2021, 22:26

As a kid I used to fix as much as I could on my bikes with the tools I had. The problem is though that sooner or later I needed a specific tool I didn’t have so it went to the shop. These days the tools are easily available and don’t seem that expensive any more so if I need a specific tool I’ll buy it. Some suppliers like Park tools also do tutorials for some common jobs. I’m not interested in the latest tech so I can’t think of anything specific I couldn’t fix myself but if I was in doubt I would take it to the bike shop to get done.
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Re: Bike economics

Postby droogs » 11 Sep 2021, 10:56

I've just serviced my bike and been using it for the last week to get to the wksp. Has been so good for my soul and general mood as for me it indicates that I really am getting better. It's been a two year gap since I last had the physical stamina to actually ride, still I managed the trip there and back 12 miles total in an hour and I reckon once I fix the 2 punctures I got on Thursday it wont take long until I'm back doing my 3 centuries a week. Given the rapid improvement in times to the wksp since last Sunday about a fortnight and I'll be back at it - not :lol:
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Re: Bike economics

Postby Lurker » 11 Sep 2021, 12:41

Well, the bloke came, but it turned out he only really wanted a brake lever, so we took both off plus the brake cables. He also took the damaged seat that was heading for the dustbin.
Gave me a fiver for the bits :o

I have decided to just leave the remains in the bike rack as the wheels and tyres on my new bike are the same, so I have spares.

I had promised her majesty that my chronic hoarding would stop, now we have downsized to our new home.
I will see if I can get away with it :eusa-shifty:
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Re: Bike economics

Postby Lurker » 11 Sep 2021, 12:48

Glad to hear that you are much better Droogs :eusa-clap:
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Re: Bike economics

Postby Woodbloke » 13 Sep 2021, 15:51

novocaine wrote:Your opinion,you are entitled to it. I disagree having seen the state of what people think is acceptable from the point of view of a shop mechanic dealing with the public.

I agree with you N; no way I’m doing complicated servicing/adjustments on my bike or SWIMBO’S. We’ve always, but always for at least the last two decades entrusted that sort of work to our LBS in town who’ve provided first class service - Rob
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Re: Bike economics

Postby sunnybob » 13 Sep 2021, 18:34

This one of those no win arguments that try to attach blanket statements to groups of people without any reference to their natural abilities.
I've seen "professionals" make unsafe bodges on many occasions.
I've also seen weekend warriors make damn fine jobs of stuff.
I've done all my own repairs and maintenance on push bikes, motor bikes (including full custom builds), and cars, since the early 60's. Never had a "professional" qualification, and never had a mechanical problem.

Now when it comes to aeroplanes..... then I want professionals working on the engines :lol: :lol:
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Re: Bike economics

Postby Lurker » 14 Sep 2021, 10:37

Seems to me that anyone who does something and earns a wage as a result is a professional .

There was a time when a professional had to gain prescribed qualifications and experience to practice.
Others were "trade".
And the rest were unskilled.

I get seriously annoyed with "gas engineers" to fix boilers and "photocopy engineers" to fix office appliances.
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Re: Bike economics

Postby RogerM » 14 Sep 2021, 11:15

sunnybob wrote:Now when it comes to aeroplanes..... then I want professionals working on the engines :lol: :lol:


So you wouldn't fly this one which I built in my garage back in 1982 then SB? 250cc single pot 2-stroke snowmobile engine, with an exhaust mounted on BMC Mini exhaust mounts. :lol:

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Re: Bike economics

Postby Woodbloke » 14 Sep 2021, 11:41

The engine’s OK Rog, it’s the BMC bits that would scare the living shytes out of me! :lol: :lol: - Rob
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Re: Bike economics

Postby novocaine » 14 Sep 2021, 11:55

having had the pleasure once, no, I would not fly in it.

this has nothing to do with your abilities though and everything to do with all of them being death traps. :lol:
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Re: Bike economics

Postby RogerM » 14 Sep 2021, 12:26

Woodbloke wrote:The engine’s OK Rog, it’s the BMC bits that would scare the living shytes out of me! :lol: :lol: - Rob


With good reason actually Rob. :lol: The connection between the exhaust manifold and the exhaust was too rigid, and after about 30 hours the vibration would make the BMC rubber mounts fail. At that point there was very little holding the exhaust in place, and unless you throttled back very quickly, the exhaust would fall off, going through the 2 blade pusher prop, which would be both very loud and VERY expensive. The initial fix was to weld a ball connector between the exhaust manifold and the exhaust from a make of car I now forget, but many upgraded to a 330cc twin which was not only more powerful, but also ran far more smoothly, which more or less removed the problem at source. Nowadays, all microlight engines are purpose built and far more reliable, and of course more expensive. But where's the fun in that!? :lol:
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Re: Bike economics

Postby sunnybob » 14 Sep 2021, 13:40

Lurker wrote:Seems to me that anyone who does something and earns a wage as a result is a professional .

There was a time when a professional had to gain prescribed qualifications and experience to practice.
Others were "trade".
And the rest were unskilled.

I get seriously annoyed with "gas engineers" to fix boilers and "photocopy engineers" to fix office appliances.


In the 60's I did an apprenticeship with the gas board to become a gas fitter. That was what we were called, despite also running water pipes to boilers, chimney flues up buildings, or wiring appliances to plugs, we were gas fitters.
Scroll on 30 years and I'm now a "field engineer", still doing gas (qualifications out my ears), but now also a lot of electric and water.
Scroll on another 10 years, and I'm still doing exactly the same job, but now a different company calls me a "gas technician".

Sticks and stones may break my bones, but names dont mean a damn. :lol:

Now that I can no longer climb onto rooves or crawl under cars, I'm forced to pay other people. But I ask for recommendations, and I make sure whenever possible I watch them work. If I dont like what they do or how they do it, I never employ them twice.
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Re: Bike economics

Postby Lurker » 14 Sep 2021, 14:45

It hurts if you are a chartered engineer.
Sweat through “A” levels in maths and science.
Sweat through a honours degree in engineering
Sweat through chartership
Call it 10 years of learning.
And then folks lump you in with the bloke who fixed the photocopier!

In Germany “engineer” is legally protected.
That could go some way towards explaining why they have such a damn good engineering industry and all we have is a service (paper shuffling) industry.
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Re: Bike economics

Postby AJB Temple » 14 Sep 2021, 15:06

:text-goodpost:
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Re: Bike economics

Postby sunnybob » 14 Sep 2021, 17:10

For a couple of years in the mid 70's I worked for a very little metal spinning company (4 men, no room for a dog), that rented a part of a large engineering works.
Way before cnc came along, all those people working lathes and milling machines were engineers, doing engineering things.
My dad (born in 1916) was a time served carpenter by training, an architectural ironworker by occupation, and ended up as a factory engineer.
He died in 1978, so I'm afraid "engineer" has been a catchall title for many many decades.
I have no experience of your level of academic qualifications, but I think you should proudly accentuate the "chartered" word rather than the "engineer" word. 8-)
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Re: Bike economics

Postby Lurker » 14 Sep 2021, 18:03

Irrelevant for me now Bob, I am well into my second childhood.
But it is deflating for the young engineering graduates that I mentored and my chartered engineer son.
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