It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 16:41
AJB Temple wrote:I really do love these per reviewed, exhaustive and in depth tests of new technology, from open minded people
novocaine wrote:.... so there is every chance it is twitchy because of the EV systems.
AJB Temple wrote:Twitchyness in vehicles can be caused by tyres. Both make and pressures. I would probably start with that.
I don't know anything about SEAT cars, but if you look at electric vehicles that have been designed as such, rather than converted from a fossil fuel bodyshell layout, then two things are notable: a) the battery cells are set very low and contained within the chassis, and b) they are distributed fairly evenly over the floorpan.
This results in a low centre of gravity (close to hub centre level) and generally very neutral handling (especially if the vehicle has a motor at each wheel). To me this results in a rather dull drive, but the same can be said of many conventional 4 wheel drive vehicles which have a rear wheel drive alternative (eg Porsche 911). The 4WD had a lot of grip, but was dull to drive as it understeered like mad compared with the RWD which has more thrilling handling. (I've owned both).
I've driven a lot of electric cars and I've yet to drive one that I think is "fun" in the same way that a good, quick petrol car is to drive. So I just accept that the experience is a different one and that trade off's are made.
Electric cars will take over, but we are still in the early days of development. Self driving cars are clearly the way forward for efficient transport operations (safer, quicker, cheaper eventually), but in my view and experience, the technology is embryonic at present and prone to silly errors such as false hazard identification.
novocaine wrote:AJB Temple wrote:Twitchyness in vehicles can be caused by tyres. Both make and pressures. I would probably start with that.
I don't know anything about SEAT cars, but if you look at electric vehicles that have been designed as such, rather than converted from a fossil fuel bodyshell layout, then two things are notable: a) the battery cells are set very low and contained within the chassis, and b) they are distributed fairly evenly over the floorpan.
This results in a low centre of gravity (close to hub centre level) and generally very neutral handling (especially if the vehicle has a motor at each wheel). To me this results in a rather dull drive, but the same can be said of many conventional 4 wheel drive vehicles which have a rear wheel drive alternative (eg Porsche 911). The 4WD had a lot of grip, but was dull to drive as it understeered like mad compared with the RWD which has more thrilling handling. (I've owned both).
I've driven a lot of electric cars and I've yet to drive one that I think is "fun" in the same way that a good, quick petrol car is to drive. So I just accept that the experience is a different one and that trade off's are made.
Electric cars will take over, but we are still in the early days of development. Self driving cars are clearly the way forward for efficient transport operations (safer, quicker, cheaper eventually), but in my view and experience, the technology is embryonic at present and prone to silly errors such as false hazard identification.
whilst lowering the COG is of benefit, the bigger issues, especially with dynamic stability is the change in weight distribution from predominately front wheel to a more 50/50 distribution.
There are 2 things at play here, first in the brake bias, with typical split on a front wheel drive car being around the 80/20 bias towards the front wheels. having the weight predominately over the rear axle increase the leverage turning round the front axle under braking or during regeneration cycles (which is really just eddie current braking) This is often counteracted by altering the brake bias to 60/40 ish, putting more weight on the rear suspension under braking, which leads to the next issue, which is around wheel base and rear axle path under braking.
the suspension is designed around a front wheel excess, typically with far less complex rear systems that often means a non liner wheel movement in a axial plane (push down and the wheel moves in a arc towards the front of the vehicle, effectively shortening the wheel base, often by up to 30mm) whilst front suspension typically moves in a arc in a transverse plane. Having this weight act on the rear to a larger extend can result in make a car want to understeer, which is felt as twitchy handling.
this is somewhat simplified and there is no one element of geometry in the vehicle that can be pointed to causing "twitchy" handling, but the two above are often considered as having a large influence on dynamic stability.
Electric cars will take over, but we are still in the early days of development. Self driving cars are clearly the way forward for efficient transport operations (safer, quicker, cheaper eventually), but in my view and experience, the technology is embryonic at present and prone to silly errors such as false hazard identification.
I really do love these per reviewed, exhaustive and in depth tests of new technology, from open minded people
novocaine wrote:I sound like a detractor of EV.
the truth couldn't be more wrong, I am very much in favour of it, once the technology is figured out and I can afford one, which isn't now.
simply put, if it wasn't for a billionaire deciding to play at being a car maker we wouldn't be at the stage we are now, which still isn't complete, but we are much much further along the path than if it was left to car makers (who have no real reason to try to do it until recently and certainly no real insensitive to do it until someone showed them it would make money).
I think we have 15 years before the technology for batteries really starts to find it's feet, and hopefully it won't involve strip mining tonnes of minerals as it does now, in the meantime, there is hydrogen.
AJB Temple wrote:From Lons
Have you driven an UP/Mii/Citigo whether petrol or electric Adrian?
Indeed I have. Both petrol and electric. I've driven a lot of short wheelbase small cars usually as hire vehicles in the Netherlands as it happens. Not sure they are comparable with much larger and heavier cars in terms of driving experience. We recently bought a Fiat 500 (actually an 800cc twin turbo) for my son's girlfriend. She's tiny and loves it. I was less enamoured but it's not for me.
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