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Wood burner grate split

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Wood burner grate split

Postby Andyp » 20 Nov 2021, 19:51

The base plate (grate) of my wood burner has split in two.
Here is the firebox with the the split visible. The plate has a series of holes where the ash falls through to the pan below. As well as allowing ash to fall through the holes are also inlets for air controlled by a damper on the bottom of the door. The split does allow a little more air in but does not affect the fire as far as I can tell.

Now the question.
Should I find someone to weld it or make me a new one?

There is no makers mark anywhere. Probably fitted when the house was built nearly 30 years ago.

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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby Doug » 20 Nov 2021, 21:11

Personally if it’s not detrimental to the fire working I’d leave it be, if you weld it & it moves slightly it might not fit correctly & could end up making the situation worse.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby Andyp » 20 Nov 2021, 21:45

Doug wrote:Personally if it’s not detrimental to the fire working I’d leave it be, if you weld it & it moves slightly it might not fit correctly & could end up making the situation worse.


True enough Doug, I really can’t see what harm it is doing. Just the aesthetics really.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby Doug » 20 Nov 2021, 21:55

The only thing I’d add is make a template of it while it’s still in one piece Andy that way if it does deteriorate quickly you’ve a good chance of getting one made.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby 9fingers » 20 Nov 2021, 22:25

Drill a small hole at the end of the crack to stop it spreading.

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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby Andyp » 21 Nov 2021, 08:07

Doug wrote:The only thing I’d add is make a template of it while it’s still in one piece Andy that way if it does deteriorate quickly you’ve a good chance of getting one made.


Good idea Doug, I will do that.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby Andyp » 21 Nov 2021, 08:11

9fingers wrote:Drill a small hole at the end of the crack to stop it spreading.

Bob


Bob, too late for that, first line of my OP..... has split in two....

I will make a template as Doug suggests then leave it alone and speak to the sweep when he next comes with a view to replacing next year.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby 9fingers » 21 Nov 2021, 12:23

Andyp wrote:
9fingers wrote:Drill a small hole at the end of the crack to stop it spreading.

Bob


Bob, too late for that, first line of my OP..... has split in two....

I will make a template as Doug suggests then leave it alone and speak to the sweep when he next comes with a view to replacing next year.


:oops: My bad Andy, I went straight to the photo where it looked like a crack with an end.

I would have thought this would be straight forward welding job done with short stitches/tacks to start with and then filled in with a bead on both sides to minimise heat distortion. Should last well and a whole lot easier cheaper than trying to make a new one.

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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby novocaine » 21 Nov 2021, 13:11

How thick is it? It looks like a decent 5-8mm slab.
Id grind it out with a nice V from both sides then lay 2 passes in with 6010 from either side. Its a flat plate. Warpage can be handled easy enough but shouldnt be an issue to be honest, theres enough material to sink the heat without buckling.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby Andyp » 21 Nov 2021, 14:17

Just measured Dave, 8mm.
You are speaking different a language though. I do not have the tools, skills, nor inclination to buy and learn either to fix myself. I know a man who, if he can’t do it, will know someone who can so armed with the knowledge you guys have imparted I will how ask the right questions. Although translation into french may be taxing.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby 9fingers » 21 Nov 2021, 14:36

Your welder friend should know all about the ways of avoiding warping due to heat stress and as Dave says thicker materials are much more resistant to the problem.
Also grinding a vee shape across the joint is standard practise too as welding adds material to the joint and it has to go somewhere. With the V groove filled with weld you end up with something like the BSI kitemark in cross section and the top can be ground back if desired to give a smooth surface for when you are shoveling out any ash etc. The underside could be left as is.

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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby Cabinetman » 21 Nov 2021, 14:49

I must say that I thought it was steel plate and not cast when I looked at it, could you replace it with a piece of plate? I’m sure somebody on here knows better than I do. Ian
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby 9fingers » 21 Nov 2021, 14:56

Cabinetman wrote:I must say that I thought it was steel plate and not cast when I looked at it, could you replace it with a piece of plate? I’m sure somebody on here knows better than I do. Ian


I too assumed steel plate with possibly a separate side to side upstand piece that might well be cast and does not look cracked at all.

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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby novocaine » 21 Nov 2021, 14:56

6010. Type of rod.
V groove. 30 degree bevel on both parts so they form a v when brought together.
In you case id do it on both sides leaving 2mm web in the middle. This leaves a 3mm groove on both sides. Run a weld in from both sides instead of 1. Id tack at either end on face and back side then run from outside edge to middle, i might flip it over but i would most like run the weld from the other edge back to middle. Then id flip it over and repeat. 3mm can be filled in one pass but i like to run a cover pass normally. So tap off the slag, give it a quick clean with a flap wheel then run another pass over the weld. Then grind it back flat. 2 fires and you will never be agle to tell i was there.

This assumes its mild steel and not cast. If its cast it will need heating first and then be allowed to cool slowly whilst wrapped in blankets. Id also be tempted to braze it instead, although i dont have the kit for that anymore.

That should be enough info that you either hang yourself or appear to know enough that a welder doesnt take the pish.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby novocaine » 21 Nov 2021, 15:23

Just to add. Cost to weld maybe 30 quid if the welders in a good mood. Perhaps 50 if he isnt. To replace it. Same price plus materials. :lol:

A quick check suggests 45 quid for 5mm plate 0.5x0.5m. So 60 for 8mm plate would be believable. Then the cutting and drilling on top if it. Maybe enough for a can of coke from 100 notes.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby Cabinetman » 21 Nov 2021, 15:33

Oh, that’s more expensive than I thought it would be, am I right in thinking that plate wouldn’t have cracked to start with?
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby novocaine » 21 Nov 2021, 17:13

Cabinetman wrote:Oh, that’s more expensive than I thought it would be, am I right in thinking that plate wouldn’t have cracked to start with?

30 years of heating a cooling. Yer it could crack from heat induced fatigue. It's going to have had a fair bit of carbon adsorption in that time to.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby Andyp » 21 Nov 2021, 19:15

I appreciate the info Dave, thank you.
If it s cool enough I'll remove it tomorrow and see if I can tell if it is cast iron or steel plate. Hammer test I read, should ring or thunk.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby novocaine » 21 Nov 2021, 20:06

Cracked steel can thung too. But its a different thung. :lol:
Grinder test will work too. Different sparks.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby Andyp » 22 Nov 2021, 12:47

I removed the grate earlier.
He it is in situ
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On removal of that piece that is there to stop logs rolling forward I could see that the other wise flat grate has a raised “lip” a couple of inches back from the edge.

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It definitely rings when tapped with a hammer so it is cast steel, I think
That lip does not appear to be welded
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I guess this means that repair will be way cheaper than replacement.

I could leave it in two pieces but the split has caused a sag which rubs on the inside of the door.

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I need to catch my neighbour a mechanic by trade who seems to know everyone in these parts. If he can’t do it I am sure he will know a man who can.

No need to light it yet BTW, 8c outside but full sun so 21c in the living room.

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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby novocaine » 22 Nov 2021, 13:48

yarp, thats cast. bugger.
so it's a matter of finding someone willing to braze it or weld it depending on the material. It's fairly specilised but not difficult to do if you know how, it's just a pain to warm it and let it cool.

I would definitely consider brazing it with a high temp filler, perhaps something like CU110 or CU186 which are copper rather than brass rods.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby 9fingers » 22 Nov 2021, 14:26

Something you could do yourself would be 3-4 steel straps, nut and bolted through to bridge the break. Check how much clearance you have for the ash pan to slide out to see if you need to tap threads into the straps or if there is enough for nuts and bolt end to protrude underneath.

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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby Andyp » 22 Nov 2021, 15:37

novocaine wrote:yarp, thats cast. bugger.
so it's a matter of finding someone willing to braze it or weld it depending on the material. It's fairly specilised but not difficult to do if you know how, it's just a pain to warm it and let it cool.

I would definitely consider brazing it with a high temp filler, perhaps something like CU110 or CU186 which are copper rather than brass rods.


thanks Dave, that is good to know.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby Andyp » 22 Nov 2021, 15:41

9fingers wrote:Something you could do yourself would be 3-4 steel straps, nut and bolted through to bridge the break. Check how much clearance you have for the ash pan to slide out to see if you need to tap threads into the straps or if there is enough for nuts and bolt end to protrude underneath.

Bob


If I can get it repaired Bob I am reluctant to drill even more holes in it beforehand, possibly weakening the grate still more perhaps? I shall make a few enquiries first.
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Re: Wood burner grate split

Postby Andyp » 23 Nov 2021, 18:53

novocaine wrote:yarp, thats cast. bugger.
so it's a matter of finding someone willing to braze it or weld it depending on the material. It's fairly specilised but not difficult to do if you know how, it's just a pain to warm it and let it cool.

I would definitely consider brazing it with a high temp filler, perhaps something like CU110 or CU186 which are copper rather than brass rods.


Dave,
Neighbour tapped it with a hammer and said he couldn’t do it. Gave me name of someone who could.

Fancy hazarding a guess what I have been quoted to repair it? I think your earlier estimates were for steel plate.
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