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Richards Garage/Workshop build

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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Malc2098 » 15 Jul 2018, 23:08

Practically, I think you've chosen a good design to utilise space.

One of the Forum has a family wedding to deal with currently and may not be available for architectural and structural comment, observation or advice.

For my little understanding of trusses, the king post is in tension, not compression, and is holding up the tie beam, whereas a crown post is supported by the tie beam. I believe the tie beams in the majority of the builds on this site are short and stout enough not to be held up by a king post. (a bit like me!! :) )
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby TrimTheKing » 16 Jul 2018, 00:12

I agree with Malc, I think you’ve made the right call there. My workshop is brick built so I don’t have king post issue so can’t answer that, but I too have created a mezzanine above my workbench area for timber and other storage while leaving the main machining area open to the ridge.

Yours is looking good. I’m looking forward to seeing it progress.
Cheers
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Richard39 » 07 Sep 2018, 20:35

Not much progress to report unfortunately due to a severe lack of free time of recent.

Going back to my question regarding supporting the ridge beam, I think I may have used the wrong terminology when talking about a king post. All this talk of monarchs and jewels is going over my head :lol:. In pure laymen's terms, I'm not sure if I need to directly support the ridge beam at either end from the point of view of transferring load (rather than just to make construction simpler)?

Is there any way of calculating the size of ridge beam needed? I've currently drawn it up assuming a 225 x 47 piece of C16 will be sufficient, but there is no science behind it. Is a scarf joint acceptable on a structural ridge, just in case getting a 7 metre length isn't straight forward?

I was hoping to fully design up the garage in sketchup before I started, but in the interests of achieving something in the real world I've decided to crack on and work out what materials I need to get the frame up, OSB'd, insulated and membrane on. Then I can hopefully get it built to that stage before the ravages of winter set in and come back to look fully at what I need to clad, roof it and put doors on. Getting saturated, freezing, and thawing did my block work no favours last winter, and I fear another winter exposed to all weathers will mean it needs removing and redoing. I hate having to redo work when that effort could be better spent making progress, so I'm using it as my motivation to pull my finger out and get building :D .
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Mike G » 07 Sep 2018, 21:53

You cannot have a join in a structural beam, other than at a support. However, if you are having only some of the trusses un-tied, and the rest with ties, then the ridge beam is only structural where is is flying over the gap between complete trusses. It doesn't have to run the full length of your workshop. It also doesn't have to be supported on a post/s, as the triangles of trusses holds it up perfectly well.
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Richard39 » 07 Oct 2020, 22:55

Another couple of years pass and life continued to get in the way of building this, but I resolved that this spring it was going to be built. Along came this spring and we all know what happened, so that scuppered my plans. One of the best springs in years for dry settled weather as well :cry: .

So, I decided progress needed to be made or another year would be lost. This all arrived this week to allow it to happen. Obviously not an ideal time of year with the weather turning and days getting shorter, but I'm sure I'll make it happen.

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Frame up

Postby Richard39 » 13 Nov 2020, 22:02

The weather forecast looked good this week, so I took a few days off to make the frames. Today the other half and I got all the frames up and in position. It went surprising well with only one slight measurement error that meant a few packers were needed between two panels. Pretty pleased with the progress made :D

I set my SLR up in the house to take a photo every few minutes, and made a little time lapse video. Not sure if it's possible to embed it, so here is a link...
https://1drv.ms/v/s!Agmg-E5yCkuoiEOAjwQRkBCa2sgm
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby RogerS » 13 Nov 2020, 23:08

Excellent video, that man. :eusa-clap:

Fingers crossed for the weather for you...not sure where you are...we've wall-to-wall rain for the next week.

So which one are you ? hat or check shirt ? :lol:
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Malc2098 » 13 Nov 2020, 23:08

Don't you just love it when a plan comes together!
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Richard39 » 13 Nov 2020, 23:27

I'm right at the bottom of North Yorkshire. Looks like rain all weekend, but with a young child to entertain there will be no rafters cut this weekend anyway :) . I've got Monday free so I might get chance to start putting the roof on then if the weather is good, but there is still a little bit of framing to finish off around the side door and window openings.

I'm the one with the power tool, of course ;)

If anybody is thinking of adding a power tool to the Christmas list then I would highly recommend a DeWalt impact drill for driving screws in. I bought good quality torx head screws with impact bits and driving them in has been an absolute doddle. It makes short work of driving screws in, and it will push them all the way through the timber if you let it. It equally makes short work of removing them for the inevitable re-adjustments :oops: .
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Andyp » 14 Nov 2020, 07:46

Well done and the time lapse is a great idea.
cheers
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Woodbloke » 14 Nov 2020, 09:41

Andyp wrote:Well done and the time lapse is a great idea.

:text-+1: Indeed, great idea - Rob
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby DaveL » 14 Nov 2020, 11:07

Andyp wrote:Well done and the time lapse is a great idea.
+1
I wish I had that on my camera.
Regards,
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby RogerS » 14 Nov 2020, 14:03

DaveL wrote:
Andyp wrote:Well done and the time lapse is a great idea.
+1
I wish I had that on my camera.


Does your camera have a remote input ? I didn't realise that mine had until recently.
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Blackswanwood » 14 Nov 2020, 16:18

Great idea doing the time lapse. Fingers crossed for some fine weather.
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Richard39 » 22 Nov 2020, 22:07

I've got a few days off, and the weather looks dry, so it's time to get started on the roof.

I've got a 7 metre long ridge, structural in part, that needs making from two pieces of 225x47 timber. I'm planning on using a half lap scarf joint to join them together, but I have a couple of questions that hopefully someone can help with?

1. Is there a rule of thumb for the size of the half lap joint needed?
2. I plan on using coach bolts to clamp it together. What would be the ideal size? I'm thinking M10 or M12.
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Mike G » 22 Nov 2020, 22:38

Obviously Richard you must make the joint in a place which isn't structural. And in a non-spanning location the ridge won't be under any load (it's just for tying the ends of the rafters together at the correct spacing), so it doesn't matter what you connect them with. Most people just nail some ply on the sides. As for the proportions..........generally make it as long as you sensibly can.
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Richard39 » 22 Nov 2020, 23:02

Thanks Mike. My plan is for the join to be in a section that isn't structural. The two lengths are 4.8 metres each, so its easy enough to achieve.

I think I get what you are saying regarding the joint - so long as it is strong enough to hold the join together until the rafters are in place it will be good enough.
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Mike G » 23 Nov 2020, 08:41

Sensibly you would make the join a couple of rafters away from the clear span, if you can. You could also use a prop underneath it during the construction of the roof, until the rafters have taken up its load.
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Richard39 » 25 Nov 2020, 23:45

Progress was slow but steady this week. I started on the ridge beam and decided that as I had never made any kind of scarf joint before, why not make two? As I had two lengths of 4.8 metre timber, and I needed a 7 metre ridge beam, I thought why not put one piece of timber in the central section and have a scarf at either end which will sit within the sections with ties.

Image

Next I moved on to making rafters. I've never made a rafter in my life, so I anticipated mistakes and over ordered on timber. First two rafters made, mocked up on the floor to double check bird mouths are in the right place, and then put into place. No great dramas and I was pleasantly surprised. The overhang was 30mm longer than intended and I wasn't sure why :eusa-think: . However, it all seemed ok, so I cracked on. In my eagerness to get the rafters in place I hadn't used one to create a template, but no big deal I'll just mark one out again, cut it, and use it as a template. To cut a long story short the next two rafters I cut weren't right and I wasn't entirely sure why. Scrap them and start over, and I managed to make another two rafters that were difference again but still not right. It started to look like the first two were blind luck :oops: . Decided to give up for the day as I was clearly missing something and getting nowhere.

Image

In the evening I watched a couple of videos on YouTube on how to cut a common rafter. Found a good one that explained and showed it well. Back on making rafters this morning, quick refresh with the video and I soon realised where my measuring error was happening. Despite the rain I was able to make progress and get a pair of rafters up at the other end and I installed some ties as well for a belt and braces approach, especially as the main door opening has no other means of tying both sides together. Pressed on with setting up to get the ridge in place and I'm part way there. I was running out of light so I decided it was best to call it day where it was rather than try to be a hero with a 7 metre long piece of timber in the dark. I've got a few days available next week to do some more, so hopefully I should get the ridge up and all the rafters and ties in place.

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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Mike G » 26 Nov 2020, 00:28

You be very careful, Richard. Wet concrete, step ladder, big piece of wood up high....
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Malc2098 » 26 Nov 2020, 09:35

Reminds me of my rafters! Well done.

Coming along.
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Richard39 » 26 Nov 2020, 22:17

The step ladder is finished with at this stage, Mike. It isn't immediately clear but in the background hidden by the step ladder is the triple extender ladder. I was re-reading your build and it isn't immediately clear how you got the other end of the beam up. What was your method?

Cheers Malc. It's good to finally get it from the screen to reality.
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Richard39 » 22 Nov 2021, 17:56

Well, nearly a year to the day since my last update :shock: . Progress has been slow and steady, and edging towards fully weather tight.

Back in December last year the ridge beam went up slow and steady. There was some cursing at times, especially when I got the beam up and it didn't want to drop into place. I ended up cutting small reliefs into the edges of rafters to guide the beam into the slot. It also required a bit of unexpected percussive persuasion to get it to sit square to the edges of the rafter.

Image

Image

Naturally, rafters came next. Should have been easy, just using the templates I had. Wrong! Lots of measuring, cutting, up the ladders, down the ladders, re-measuring, new rafter cut, still wrong..... I went back to first principles and took exact measurements in numerous places and used various tables and/or apps to work out the required dimensions, and I was still getting rafters that were close, but not right. I never did 100% work out why, and I ended up simply making the top plumb cut and marking out the birds mouth, offering it up and seeing how close the pencil markings for the birds mouth was, and adjusting as necessary before cutting it. This made getting the rafters up very slow as I was having to climb up and down twice, at least, for every rafter. Possible issues are that the ridge is quite long with two scarf joints in it, meaning it isn't quite straight in both planes, and I also believe my wall plates were a few degrees away from square. Got there in the end though, and thank god I deliberately over ordered on the timber for the rafters in anticipation of a few unsalvageable errors.

Image

Image

More to come later...
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Malc2098 » 22 Nov 2021, 18:56

Sometimes it seems a shame to cover it all up after all the work that's gone into it.
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Re: Richards Garage/Workshop build

Postby Regex » 22 Nov 2021, 18:58

Nice progress on your build, I'm impressed by the size of the building you're making. Like you I found sketchup to be fairly straightforward to use, and the time invested in learning to use it really paid dividends for planning and materials ordering.

Your troubles with measuring, cutting, and going up and down several times with the roof rafters makes me glad I decided to go with a simple flat roof structure, the only measurement was length :D

I found that once I had a halfway decent roof covering on the pressure was off somewhat and I could relax, sit back, and plan my next moves.

Are you planning to fully insulate your build?
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