It is currently 28 Mar 2024, 23:54

BucksDad Workshop Build - Cost Estimation

Roll up, roll up. Here you will find everything from new workshop designs, through builds to completed workshop tours. All magnificently overseen by our own Mike G and his tremendously thorough 'Shed' design and generous advice.

BucksDad Workshop Build - Cost Estimation

Postby BucksDad » 24 Mar 2021, 22:47

Hi,

As mentioned in my intro post, I'm getting into woodworking and need a workshop to do it in - I've already had an abortive attempt at doing some stuff in our single garage which doubles as a home gym - not enough space and sawdust and exercise don't mix :D .. so let's build one. To note, I have studied the guides on building a shed with / without concrete and have read a lot of threads on here / another place and thanks to you all who provide your wisdom, input and advice.

I have an existing shed which is rotting so time to take it down and replace it with something better.

Here's a photo of the garden with current shed (3mx2m) in the corner
garden.jpg
(491.81 KiB)


Here's proposed workshop dimensions with basic boundary detail
IMG_6594.jpg
(405.08 KiB)


Initial thoughts
- Planning wise, I am not in an AONB (that starts 200m beyond my garden!), conservation area, PD rights not removed etc.
- The house itself as you can see is in an urban area and the houses are '60s with horrible low pitched roof and of no architectural value so there's no real special considerations there
- As you can see, I'm going for 5m x 3m to avoid the non-combustible material issue when close to the boundary and 5m x 3m feels about right without it over powering the garden and with a young family, need as much garden as possible as well
- I feel PD height of 2.5m is too restrictive so will be going for PP and will propose a 3m height with 2.3m eaves which according to some online calculator, will give me a 25 degree pitch roof to enable all roofing choices and of course utilise that height for storage

My abilities / time
- I've never done anything like this before and the limits of my DIY to date are boarding the loft. To do this all by myself would be a stretch but I'm willing to give it a go
- I don't want to spend all summer doing this, after the past year, hoping to spend as much time as possible with family / friends etc. so I am prepared to pay others / consider more expensive options to save my own time
- I would hope to get groundworks completed by early September. I can give a day week during the week to it + weekends during Sept / Oct so I would hope to be weather tight by end of October before winter and worse weather kicks in.
- I can probably get a neighbour to help with the odd 2 man lift, but I don't have a big network of family / friends to call on for help close by.

Groundworks
- This is my biggest concern with the build in terms of time / cost. I've already obtained a quote for a concrete pad with 2 course brick and this was £4800 (!). Way more than I was expecting but then this is Bucks

So this lead me to investigate the non-concrete options and I quite like the look of ground screws for offering a quick install and seems a good choice with the beech hedging / clay soil I have.

I'm a big fan of Robin Clevett on YouTube if you've watched him and in this video
you can see him using ground screws to build a substantial garden building. If you look at 06:30 onwards for example, what surprises me is how close the timber ring beam foundation is to the ground.. after all my reading here, I thought that was a big no-no for wood..

So feel free to comment on that and ground screws in general - I know it will give some challenges of rodent proofing, ventilation and potentially floor height, but they don't feel insurmountable compared to the cost of someone providing a concrete pad (access is only 70cm to my garden as well so limits the machinery sizes somewhat).

I think ground screws installed by a company would cost in the region of £1500, be done in a day and I could crack on with the sole plate / ring beam so much quicker.

That's probably enough for the first post. Lots more planning required of course for all the other aspects but I feel nailing the groundwork choice is key to me first to know the cost / effort involved.

Any general comments / suggestions welcome and of course discussion on groundworks!

Thanks all

Mod Edit: fixed the youtube link. Bob
Last edited by BucksDad on 20 Jan 2022, 11:52, edited 1 time in total.
BucksDad
New Shoots
 
Posts: 82
Joined: 08 Feb 2021, 15:54
Location: Chilterns, Bucks
Name: James

Re: BucksDad Workshop Build - Planning / Design Phase

Postby Mike G » 25 Mar 2021, 14:40

That video is just not the way to do a wooden building. The sole plate is vulnerable to damp, and so the building won't last long, and those types of construction are certain to leave accessible voids for vermin to breed in.

Have you had a look at my "Build a shed without concrete" thread? Link below. The size you are planning is do-able using that method, just. It gets the building up on a plinth, and is done entirely without the need for pouring concrete, or laying bricks. You then have to build a suspended floor, so there is necessarily something of a step up into the shed.

https://thewoodhaven2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=3308
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9834
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: BucksDad Workshop Build - Planning / Design Phase

Postby BucksDad » 25 Mar 2021, 19:24

Thanks for commenting. Looks like I did manage to absorb some things I read here then and it is strange so much effort has gone into that nice building but without properly thinking through the ring beam.

Yes I did look at the non-concrete option, I guess I was taken with ground screws because it was 'in the ground' and the concrete lintels are just on the ground, but I'm assuming that with those + weight of the shed + equipment that it won't move :D

I've seen the detail about heavy machinery and doubling up joists... would that shed design cope with a heavy duty P/T (300kg) or would the concrete option would better?

So thinking back the concrete option, I certainly don't want to pay £5k to a company to do it. Soil removal - 5m x 3m to a depth of 150mm - allowing for 75mm-100mm hardcore, 50mm concrete in ground, 50mm concrete above ground. Is it possible to dig out 5m x 3m x 150mm by hand in a weekend?

I could get the concrete mixed and pumped on site which would save barrowing. I think the insulated floor would be nice, so I wouldn't need to ensure a perfectly floated finish but good enough and some self levelling compound afterwards.

Rather than bricks I could use blockwork and then render it or clad it in a stone cladding. I assume for blockwork it needs to be dense 7.3N variety?
BucksDad
New Shoots
 
Posts: 82
Joined: 08 Feb 2021, 15:54
Location: Chilterns, Bucks
Name: James

Re: BucksDad Workshop Build - Planning / Design Phase

Postby Mike G » 25 Mar 2021, 20:39

Certainly digging that out by hand is do-able, but how hard a job it is will depend entirely on the ground. If there are stones and rubbish mixed in with clay, then it will be a pain.

Don't be too prescriptive about the depth. You basically need to remove the topsoil (ie the dark stuff with vegetative matter in it). If that's only 100mm deep, then that's all you need to remove. You don't need hardcore at all if the resulting ground is firm and flattish. The hardcore's function, really, is to bring the bottom of the concrete up to a level which gives you the right depth of concrete (and in your case, assuming no trees nearby, your concrete need only be 100mm thick. You might thicken the edges to 150 to be on the safe side).

Assuming 5m x 3m x 100mm, you only need 1.5 cu metres of concrete. No pump company will deal with that small a load, and the pump will cost you more than the concrete. Barrowing that little concrete is a doddle, or, if you've got room, hire a mini dumper and it will only be 3 or 4 trips.

The blocks can be any old thing you like. 3.5 newton blocks will be way too strong, so 7.5N would just be a waste of money. There's very little that stops blocks looking like blocks, though.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9834
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: BucksDad Workshop Build - Planning / Design Phase

Postby BucksDad » 25 Mar 2021, 23:40

OK Thanks Mike for the useful info & tips.

To hide the blockwork, I'm thinking something along these lines will do the job - https://www.realstonecladding.co.uk/nat ... ing-panels. I'm sure it's not everyone's cup of tea, but probably fits OK in my urban setting
BucksDad
New Shoots
 
Posts: 82
Joined: 08 Feb 2021, 15:54
Location: Chilterns, Bucks
Name: James

Re: BucksDad Workshop Build - Planning / Design Phase

Postby Mike G » 26 Mar 2021, 08:13

Just watch the thickness. If they are over about an inch thick (including adhesive) then you'll have to allow for that with the boarding. Also check that you can cut them such that they work with the block coursing.
User avatar
Mike G
Sequoia
 
Posts: 9834
Joined: 30 Jul 2014, 22:36
Location: Suffolk
Name:

Re: BucksDad Workshop Build - Planning / Design Phase

Postby BucksDad » 26 Mar 2021, 08:22

Thanks Mike. I have noted your detail from your own build about the alignment of the cladding with brickwork so yes will be something that needs thinking about.
BucksDad
New Shoots
 
Posts: 82
Joined: 08 Feb 2021, 15:54
Location: Chilterns, Bucks
Name: James

Re: BucksDad Workshop Build - Cost Estimation(!)

Postby BucksDad » 20 Jan 2022, 12:23

So nothing has moved on with this yet as we had other priorities, however we are having the garden landscaped soon so the workshop planning is starting up again.

In terms of design, things have moved on a bit - realised that I don't really have the space for something 5m x 3m without it dominating the garden too much and also, not entirely sure whether we might end up moving again.

So, the plan is to build a 3m x 3m workshop on a concrete base with 2 course bricks with a flat roof and everything under 2.5m. One single door on one side and an 800 x 450 window on another.

The plan is to make it look garden office and be an easy conversion to an office space so that if we do sell, it's another tick in the box for prospective buyers.

I have worked out the costings below and used various online calculators to get to these figures. My brain just does not seem to get on with 3d modelling programs to actually draw this out. The costings below don't include the base / bricks as that is already covered by the garden landscaping costing.

Let me know what you think of the costings, anything I've missed and any value engineering ideas! Prices are a combination of local timber yard and wherever is cheapest locally (e.g. Wickes for OSB)

- 4 x 2 Studwork - 4.2m lengths x 35 - £12.60 each - total £441
- 47 x 150 x 3.6m joists - 14 - £16.2 each - £226
- 25 x 38 x 3.6m battening - £200
- Firring strips - 9 - £10 each - £90
- OSB T&G 18mm roof sheets - 10 - £26 each - £260
- 90mm PIR insulation - 14 - £45 each - £630
- OSB 11mm 8 x 4 for walls - 12 - £29 each - £348
- Plasterboard 12.5mm walls - 12 - £10 each - £120
- Plasterboard 12.5mm ceiling - 3 - £10 each - £30
- Tyvek Housewrap - 1 - £115
- Iro Cladding (2 sides) - 8 pack 5 of - £195 each - £975
- Box Profile Cladding (2 sides ) - £200
- EPDM Roof - £480
- Vinyl Flooring Tiles - £230
- UPVC Window - £120
- Solid Core Door (will be clad with Iro Timber) + fixings - £175

That comes to a total of £4655. Added on 15% for contingency / fixings etc gives a total of £5350

The obvious saving would be cheaper cladding for the 2 visible sides, but I really like the Iro look, as does the design committee.

I'm also allowing £1000 for provision of electrics.

I'm also going to have to get someone to build this for me. I have built 2 'sheds on wheels' for the side of my house (will put a build thread up sometime soon when they're finished) and it has taken me so long with so many mistakes - as would be expected for my first attempt at anything like that. The design committee doesn't have the trust / patience for me to do it and realistically, I don't think I have the time / skills / tools either and being a small(ish) garden with nowhere to hide it, I want it to look nice.

So I'm also going to allow for 10 days at £250 / day for a joiner/carpenter to build it (or as much as they will for 10 days, I'd hope 10 days would mean at least it would be watertight, door and window fitted. I figured I can do some of the internals).

Anyway, that means the entire cost comes to:-

Materials - £5350
Electrician + Electrics - £1000
Labour - £2500

Grand Total - £8850

This is an expensive hobby!!
BucksDad
New Shoots
 
Posts: 82
Joined: 08 Feb 2021, 15:54
Location: Chilterns, Bucks
Name: James

Re: BucksDad Workshop Build - Cost Estimation

Postby StevieB » 20 Jan 2022, 21:56

For that price, and that size, I would be looking at something like dunsterhouse.co.uk and saving a fortune, especially if you think you will be moving again:

https://dunsterhouse.co.uk/avon-warmalo ... 8m-x-d3-0m - log cabin 68mm wall thickness

They will put it up for you and you would still have change from your budget....... unless you want something bespoke that doesn't come off the shelf? They benefit of DIY is you get what you want, but if you do not have the time or money or skill to do so, (nothing wrong with any of those options!) then don't overlook what is ready made.
StevieB
Nordic Pine
 
Posts: 886
Joined: 21 Jul 2014, 21:47
Location: Chatteris, Cambridgeshire
Name:

Re: BucksDad Workshop Build - Cost Estimation

Postby BucksDad » 21 Jan 2022, 15:22

Yes it's definitely worth considering StevieB.

Of course I face the issue of wanting to build something relatively small but feel 3m is the minimum I want in either direction. The one you've linked to has internal dimensions of 2.55 x 2.74 and 7m2.

I've actually sized mine at 3.26m x 3.26m to ensure finished internal dimensions of 3mx3m

In my situation, there's then also the complication of either accepting a workshop/shed which is only 5cm off the ground or adapting it with the brick courses to stay under 2.5m.

And lastly, their market is people who want double doors and plenty of windows, which you don't really want in a small workshop either so it's an annoying size to buy a prefab. Bigger sizes probably become more cost effective with less downsides
BucksDad
New Shoots
 
Posts: 82
Joined: 08 Feb 2021, 15:54
Location: Chilterns, Bucks
Name: James

Re: BucksDad Workshop Build - Cost Estimation

Postby AJB Temple » 21 Jan 2022, 16:40

This comment from you BD:

"The plan is to make it look garden office and be an easy conversion to an office space so that if we do sell, it's another tick in the box for prospective buyers" rather suggests that a prefab with plenty of glazing is exactly what you need to suggest garden office. Lots of places supply these chalet type buildings at various sizes and quality grades. Will certainly be quick and probably OK if you plan to sell on soonish. I've known people complain that they are not always that long lasting. Plenty available in the order of 4m by 4 or 5m.
Don't like: wood, engines, electrickery, decorating, tiling, laying stone, plumbing, gardening or any kind of DIY. Not wild about spiders either.
User avatar
AJB Temple
Sequoia
 
Posts: 5432
Joined: 15 Apr 2019, 09:04
Name:

Re: BucksDad Workshop Build - Cost Estimation

Postby BucksDad » 21 Jan 2022, 17:20

Good point Adrian, but in such a small space, they are horrendously wasteful on wall space. When I said move, I meant probably in 5-8 years time and probably a bit of a pipe dream anyway.

Probably best to focus on building the workshop I want. The house is 5 bed detached in school grammar area, so shouldn't have any problems selling really!
BucksDad
New Shoots
 
Posts: 82
Joined: 08 Feb 2021, 15:54
Location: Chilterns, Bucks
Name: James

Re: BucksDad Workshop Build - Cost Estimation

Postby MY63 » 21 Jan 2022, 18:01

I built a workshop following MikeG's plans and advice, I am an average DIYer and managed but it took me a long time. I went with the non concrete base.
One thing I did consider was getting a joiner to make the frame for me. In the end I did it all myself and enjoyed most of it :D
MY63
Old Oak
 
Posts: 1248
Joined: 17 Oct 2018, 20:41
Location: North East England
Name: Michael

Re: BucksDad Workshop Build - Cost Estimation

Postby Regex » 12 Feb 2022, 12:55

DIY route:
I can echo Michael's advice, it's definitely doable as an amateur DIY'er, and you learn loads as you go along and can be very rewarding (and frustrating at times).

BucksDad wrote:I'm also going to have to get someone to build this for me. I have built 2 'sheds on wheels' for the side of my house and it has taken me so long with so many mistakes - as would be expected for my first attempt at anything like that.

Fair enough! If you're working full time (like I am), you'll find you can only work on the weekends and evenings (if you're not too tired), and if the weekend is a washout then you'll just need to wait till next weekend. If you do go DIY I would try and do as much planning and research now while the weather is bad, and then you can hit the ground running in spring.

Even if you get a builder/carpenter to do it. I would say don't order all your building materials at once. For example, save ordering all the interior stuff like flooring, plasterboard and insulation until you have a weather proof building carcass up, as it all needs to be stored somewhere and just gets in the way. I suspect the design committee would not like to have it all stored in the house haha.

On that note, I would advise against demolishing the old shed, as you'll be needing outside storage space (at least until your new building is done). You can move it temporarily by rolling it on thick round fence posts from Harbros or builder's yard. See here for how I did it: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5664&start=25#p96828

BucksDad wrote:One single door on one side and an 800 x 450 window on another.
The plan is to make it look garden office and be an easy conversion to an office space.

I have to say, I really enjoy having large windows to see out into the garden, and the more light the better. You might consider a second window. Make sure you have at least one on a south facing side to get sunlight in in winter.

BucksDad wrote:My brain just does not seem to get on with 3d modelling programs to actually draw this out.

If you are interested I can send you my Sketchup design file for inspiration, you can download the Sketchup software for free (they just hide the download links). Be sure to download Sketchup Make and not Sketchup Pro (you don't need a trimble account either): https://help.sketchup.com/en/downloading-older-versions

In terms of costing, I was thinking of posting a full tally on my thread once I'm done with my build, but you seem to have costed it up already!

Finally, good luck :)
User avatar
Regex
Seedling
 
Posts: 40
Joined: 26 Mar 2021, 15:19
Location: Scotland
Name: David


Return to Workshop Builds

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests