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Staircase upgrade - ...

This is where we don't want anything but evidence of your finest wood butchering in all its glorious, and photograph laden glory. Bring your finished products or WIP's, we love them all, so long as there's pictures, and plenty of 'em!

Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 10 Jan 2022, 19:18

Thanks chaps. I could be wrong but I think that the type of wreath predicates that it must 'leave the line' as it were.

The bare stringer looks OK, I think, as will the top of the newel as I'll probably put a small 'feature' flat of walnut on top of it. Depends what CDA decides.

This was our first idea and based on the same moulding as on the skirting boards but upside-down.

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It didn't look right, though, in position. CDA thought a corbel would look better, found a suitable design which she wanted simplified and this is it.

Image

Image

We think it hits the spot.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Malc2098 » 10 Jan 2022, 19:31

Will you make a feature or put a finial on the top of the newel, Roger?
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 10 Jan 2022, 19:40

Malc2098 wrote:Will you make a feature or put a finial on the top of the newel, Roger?


:eusa-think: Mmm...a finial ?? Interesting idea. Not sure TBH. I thought probably keep it plain but will run that idea past CDA.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Malc2098 » 10 Jan 2022, 21:44

RogerS wrote:
Malc2098 wrote:Will you make a feature or put a finial on the top of the newel, Roger?


:eusa-think: Mmm...a finial ?? Interesting idea. Not sure TBH. I thought probably keep it plain but will run that idea past CDA.


Could you design something that would echo the design of the corbel?
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 14 Jan 2022, 19:16

Really fascinating and it shows that one can't necessarily see how things will pan put until a bit later on. Just as well I've made things 'tweakable'.

This first spindle and support looked fine.

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But after fitting the two 'extended' spindles,. I suddenly realised that that first one also needs to be an 'extended' one. I only noticed it from upstairs.

Image

As it is, it's just plain wrong and once noticed, becomes more apparent at floor level

Image
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby AJB Temple » 14 Jan 2022, 20:54

Alternative suggestion: instead of using those support blocks, mount a horizontal "shelf" instead and at the turn point on the stairs curve it round so that it follows the line of the handrail and then blends into the side panel on the next flight. The spindles then drop into or onto the "shelf".

I think this might look much less contrived and will deal neatly with the turn point where you just have one spindle over the side on the half landing between the first and the second flight. The way the rail turns looks nice, and the bottom of the spindles needs to mirror that ....is my suggestion.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 14 Jan 2022, 22:20

I did think about that but doesn't it have to suddenly go vertical to accommodate that height difference on the turn?

Any chance you could sketch out your idea ? I may have misunderstood.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby AJB Temple » 14 Jan 2022, 22:46

I'm away at the moment Roger. If it can wait until Sunday I will do it.

In the meantime, if you imagine (for simplicity) a plank fixed the the vertical part (but at 90 degrees to it) of the vertical piece of wood (sorry don't know the name) where the spindles joint the first flight. This makes that section wider and you can fashion a curve where it joins the second flight, and will taper into the side panel on the second flight, collecting the stray spindles as it goes.

The idea is that it echoes your fine work on the rail and hides the angularity of the bottom section.

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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 15 Jan 2022, 07:03

Very happy to wait until later, thanks Adrian.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Malc2098 » 15 Jan 2022, 10:27

I think I get Adrian's idea. Would the radius of this curved piece be the same as the radius of the horizontal plane curve of the rail?

If that's right, then I think I've got his idea.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 15 Jan 2022, 10:33

But there has to be a height change, surely? So the support can't be horizontal ?
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Mike G » 15 Jan 2022, 10:50

I've never understood how this was going to work. I think the neatest answer would be some curved (on plan) panelling down to the ground following the line of the rail, hiding the stringers in the corner. I just don't see any curved shelf, or brackets, working on straight stringers.

So panelling on the outside.......but that will still leave you an ugly problem on the inside, where you'll have straight stringers and the top of a newel post sticking inside the line of the handrail. The only thing I can think of there would be to build out a shelf from the bottom of the stairs to the top, projecting inwards from the balluster line enough to cover the corner. I think your stairs are wide enough to lose a few inches.

Hindsight and all that, but building a new staircase might have been a whole lot easier!
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby flying haggis » 15 Jan 2022, 17:23

Come on Roger you are dragging this out !....

these guys would done it in a day...

https://youtu.be/dhHhgAP4vPk


(yours is looking good though and well done for persevering and showing us all the bits that didnt go well as well as the ones that did)

I want to see more of the wall to the right of the stairs in the video as well.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 15 Jan 2022, 18:33

flying haggis wrote:...

I want to see more of the wall to the right of the stairs in the video as well.


Many thanks, FH. Do you mean his wall or my wall ....confused as you do mention video and I'm not sure that my wall has a lot to offer !
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby flying haggis » 15 Jan 2022, 18:48

the wall in the you tube video to the right of the staircase that we get fleeting glimpses of
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 15 Jan 2022, 18:53

flying haggis wrote:the wall in the you tube video to the right of the staircase that we get fleeting glimpses of


Ah, gotcha. Didn't think my wall had much going for it :D
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 25 Jan 2022, 22:58

The trouble with Stop-Go projects is that one can lose one's thought pattern and this is guaranteed to invite the CUF along :(

I'd created the tangent handrailing drawing for the volute wreath....dead easy...just follow along the excellent ThisIsCarpentry feature (mentioned in earlier posts) and I'd even cut out a model from thick polystyrene foam together with a model foam volute. And it all looked good.

I've made the volute, as you know, so time to cut out the face-mould pattern and glue it to my chunk of ever-decreasing stock of walnut. So ....

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I should have known better. Even the markings on the paper were screaming out to me 'This is NOT it' but I pressed on, and as soon as I'd cut it out of the lump of walnut and compared it to the polystyrene model, I could tell it was wrong. :oops:

So back to first prinicples. Rechecked my drawing and found the error (apart from not using the correct version in the first place). The centre-point for the two ellipses was in the wrong place. No wonder it didn't look right. Thing is I only now have enough walnut of that thickness to make one more wreath and if I cock up the next one then :eusa-naughty:

This is what I am aiming for

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and this revised drawing looks the Dogs.

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You may be wondering why and how it is up at that strange angle. Well that angle is the angle of the staircase. You cut a piece off the bottom of the timber along the line that is the bottom of the handrail. That angle on the block now gives you the right angle for the wreath to be cut to shape. The piece you cut off is glued temporarily to the underside to give it more support but I like to add a second piece further up because this is going through the bandsaw to have the sides cut along the top view of the mould and it I didn't adequately support that far end then chances are the bandsaw would snag it downwards.

So ....this extra block

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I also need to fix a template to the end that will be bolted to a straight part of the handrail.
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So very carefully cutting the outside line and checking it's vertical.

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and the inside line

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Yes, I was too lazy to put a thinner blade in the bandsaw :oops:

Offering it up to the volute....looks OK.

Image

In the background of the photo, you can see my homemade Acme heavy-duty aircleaner. Just managed to buy the last pre-filter from Axminster. It's driven by a bloody great fan sucking the air through the front and is great for hoovering up all the dust from the mould when I use the Saburr Tooth burrs.

You can also see where I've started to hog off the excess on the top of the wreath.

Starting to create the actual moulding of the wreath - using a mixture of SaburrTooth burrs, Flexcut chisels in my elderly Bosch power chisel, Auriou rasps and copious sandpaper.

Image

Image

The key is to take things slowly and constantly take the wreath out of the vice, offer it up to the volute, look and feel to see if it's right.

I'm also still a beginner at cutting out the wreath in the first place. You find that parts are thicker than they should be and one of the best ways I've found to get the line is, once you've established the underside of the wreath, is to take the spindle cutter and use it to mark the line.

Image

Image

To be continued...
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Cabinetman » 26 Jan 2022, 00:34

I’m sorry to have to say it Roger but those little blocks just tell me that you started the curve too soon, and not following the line of the stringers, I seem to remember saying about two months ago to get the straight bits held in place at the right heights and then you’d be able to see what you’d need to infill between at the corners. Not sure if I didn’t say to use polystyrene to mock it up with. Ian
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 26 Jan 2022, 09:49

Ian, it's not a question of 'stating the turn too early'. Early on in the project when I was struggling with tangent handrailing drawing, I tried your approach. It failed miserably and the end result looked clunky and awkward and definitely didn't 'flow' as a proper wreath would.

The flow of the wreath is the be-all-and-end-all. Sacrosanct and we can live with a few corbels.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Cabinetman » 26 Jan 2022, 10:32

Oh well, you obviously know best, but I couldn’t live with those blocks, I’ll leave you to it.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby RogerS » 13 Feb 2022, 16:33



Youtube let my account get hacked. It then got trashed ....won't bother to reinstate. Sorry.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby AndyT » 13 Feb 2022, 17:04

:eusa-clap: :eusa-clap: :eusa-clap:

That looks a lot better than what was there before.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby 9fingers » 13 Feb 2022, 17:23

And there was I expecting to see you or LOYL sliding down the banister as a finale..... :lol:

Excellent result.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Andyp » 13 Feb 2022, 19:42

A long time ago in a house far far away...

Well done Roger.
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Re: Staircase upgrade - ...

Postby Phil » 17 Feb 2022, 13:11

Agree with the previous posts, nice job Rog, you must be very chuffed :eusa-clap: 8-) :D

So what will you now be doing with all that spare time? :lol:
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