3D printer questions

[Jonathan]

First I'm a complete dinosaur on this technology but want to learn with the help from my 11 year old son.
Uses will be jig making and oddments for the shed, hence the large bed printer

I know a few here are tec wizards and might be able to advise me or tell me if I'm totally mad.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Looking at a Anycubic Kobra 2 max.
This is the UK site, I will be buying from Europe, but guess it's all the same.
https://uk.anycubic.com/collections/fas ... obra-2-max

Also I have a large amount of white HDPE waste, can I re use this, or is a silly idea?

Thanks Jonathan.



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[NickM]

My wife booked our kids onto a 3D printing course one Easter holidays when they were about 11/12. I think it was one of the best decisions ever. My son loved it and, 7 years later, has just started studying design at uni.

I've dabbled with it. The learning curve is quite steep but, mostly!, enjoyable. The hardest part is probably getting to grips with CAD software (fusion 360 in my case) when you want to design your own stuff. The other software you need to use is a "slicer" (I use CURA) which converts the 3D model into a code for the 3D printer. The slicer also controls the printer settings (bed temperature, nozzle temperature etc.).

The main frustration I've had is when things have gone wrong and trying to work out what the issue is. Eg a blocked nozzle. However, there are so many online resources which can help. YouTube is a godsend!

I can't comment on printer pros and cons. We've got an Ender 3 which has had various upgrades and is still going strong.

 

[Dr.Al]

First I'm a complete dinosaur on this technology but want to learn with the help from my 11 year old son.
Uses will be jig making and oddments for the shed, hence the large bed printer

I know a few here are tec wizards and might be able to advise me or tell me if I'm totally mad.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Looking at a Anycubic Kobra 2 max.
This is the UK site, I will be buying from Europe, but guess it's all the same.
https://uk.anycubic.com/collections/fas ... obra-2-max

Also I have a large amount of white HDPE waste, can I re use this, or is a silly idea?

Apologies for the wall of text, but these are my thoughts...

For jig making and suchlike I'd recommend printing with PETG - it's a bit more robust than PLA, which is the other "easy" filament option. PLA is cheap (and biodegradable), but it's a little smelly when it's printing and is very brittle. It's popular for painted models among those who are into such things, but less good for jigs and tools. PETG isn't much more expensive, doesn't smell and has a bit of flex to it so it bends a little rather than snapping in two.

HDPE isn't a very common filament and needs much higher temperatures than PLA/PETG or even ABS. You'd almost certainly need an enclosure for the printer (to keep the local temperature high to mitigate the fast shrinkage speed) and the printing speed would have to be very very low. That, of course, is after you'd figured out how to extrude your HDPE waste into a filament. If I were you, I'd stick to PETG for now.

I don't know anything about the Anycubic printer, but it looks fine from the website. There are various different price ranges of 3D printer and the more you pay, the less fettling you'll have to do. It's up to you where you want to sit on that curve. The Enders and similar seem to be at the end of the scale where the printer becomes your hobby and you'll spend a lot of time (and possibly money) tweaking and adjusting and experimenting to get good printers. At the other end of the (hobby) scale is the Prusa printers, which are pretty much fire and forget. I went with the latter (Mk3s+ kit) as I saw it as a means to an end and wanted something that just works. It's reliable enough that I sometimes connect to it remotely to start a print and just trust that the print will be completed properly by the time I get home.

The other thing you need to think about is how to design your models. There are a few different options on the market, some free, some cheap, some eyewateringly expensive. The one I would recommend first would be OnShape. It's free, it's very very powerful and fairly easy to use as 3D parametric CAD goes. As it is a cloud-based thing, it doesn't need an extremely powerful computer to run. There are other options though (I've listed a few below). Whichever one you choose, make sure it supports STEP export as well as STL export. Get in the habit of exporting your models as STEP files regularly. If you ever lose access to your chosen CAD system, you'll be able to load the STEP files into another CAD system. You'll lose the history, but the model will be editable if you need to tweak anything.

CAD Options

• OnShape free version. Runs in a browser. The only real limitation of the free version is that your models will be public - i.e. if someone has a lot of time on their hands, they could search through the all the millions of public models and find yours. They won't be able to edit it, but they could download it and or take a copy which they could then edit. For non-commercial stuff, this isn't really a problem. Loads of tutorials available on-line and the support forums are excellent. Most of the tutorials are from the company themselves so they're kept up to date. Browser based so it'll run on any computer (Mac, Windows, Linux).
• Solid Edge Community Edition - again free. Very, very powerful CAD system from Siemens used by lots of professional organisations. Quite a steep learning curve though compared to OnShape. This is the most powerful option from the ones you can download onto your PC (as opposed to running in a browser) for free.
• SolidWorks Student Edition - currently £46.75 for a year (usually £120 I think) - discount ends on 18th December. This is probably the most powerful and best CAD system out there and it's quite easy to use (similar to OnShape in many ways - OnShape was created by ex-SolidWorks developers). There's an online training course run by the Titans of CNC Academy and if you sign up to that for free then you're eligible for the student version of SolidWorks. The disadvantage is it's a one year licence and it's unclear whether they will keep that offer open in the future.
• 3DExperience SolidWorks for Makers - $48 per year. This had the advantage over the other SolidWorks version that it's more likely to be available in the long term. However, what I've read on-line implies the 3DExperience version is a bit flaky and not well thought of.
• Autodesk Fusion 360 Personal - free, but Autodesk keep reducing the functionality in the free version and I can see this disappearing in the not-too-distant future. Makes my computer fan go crazy, suggesting it's quite demanding in terms of its hardware requirements. It works quite a bit differently to most other CAD systems I've used and is quite clunky compared to SolidWorks or OnShape. I can switch between OnShape, SolidWorks, Solid Edge, NX, ZW3D and FreeCAD without much thought, but it always takes me a while to get going with Fusion. Loads of tutorials on-line, although many are out-of-date as they're mostly from users rather than Autodesk.
• FreeCAD - open source and completely free and always will be. If you want to be absolutely sure you'll never lose access to your models, this is the best option. It's got quite a steep learning curve though and many online tutorials and videos are woefully out-of-date. It's getting more and more capable every time I look at it though. Learning curve is probably similar steepness to Fusion. Runs on anything (Windows, Mac, Linux).
• Alibre Atom 3D - about £200 I think. Popular on the Model Engineering forum, probably largely because it was pushed quite hard in some of the magazines for a while. I can only assume that Alibre paid a lot of money for this. While Atom3D is fine, it doesn't really offer anything that FreeCAD can't do. It does not support top-down modelling (designing stuff based on other stuff) and never will (as they keep that as a feature of their more expensive options).
• Design Spark Mechanical - I'm not even going to link to this one. It's free, but avoid like the plague - it doesn't allow STEP export (along with several other limitations).
• Sketchup. A completely different style of drawing compared to the others in this list. A lot of people get on with it, so it's worth considering if you don't "click" with the others. Based more directly around shoving shapes around (rather than extruding/revolving constrained sketches) and can be intuitive if you think that way (Solid Edge's synchronous modelling mode is a little bit like that too). The main disadvantages are that the models aren't parametric (so it can be hard to tweak things if one of your early dimensions were wrong) and that the models aren't really exportable in an editable form into other systems.

Then there are some other types of modelling systems where you're basically writing computer code (i.e. programming) to create your models. The main three I'm aware of are:

• OpenSCAD - popular and well documented and probably the best option if you're not familiar with any other programming languages. The only real disadvantage is that the language is a bit quirky.
• OpenJSCad - based on OpenSCAD but using javascript as a language instead. Runs entirely in a browser and is basically OpenSCAD with a nicer language.
• CADQuery/CQEditor - based on python, so a very capable programming language. Documentation leaves a bit to be desired, but it's getting better.

 

[meccarroll]

First I'm a complete dinosaur on this technology but want to learn with the help from my 11 year old son.
Uses will be jig making and oddments for the shed, hence the large bed printer

I know a few here are tec wizards and might be able to advise me or tell me if I'm totally mad.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Looking at a Anycubic Kobra 2 max.
This is the UK site, I will be buying from Europe, but guess it's all the same.
https://uk.anycubic.com/collections/fas ... obra-2-max

Also I have a large amount of white HDPE waste, can I re use this, or is a silly idea?

Apologies for the wall of text, but these are my thoughts...

For jig making and suchlike I'd recommend printing with PETG - it's a bit more robust than PLA, which is the other "easy" filament option. PLA is cheap (and biodegradable), but it's a little smelly when it's printing and is very brittle. It's popular for painted models among those who are into such things, but less good for jigs and tools. PETG isn't much more expensive, doesn't smell and has a bit of flex to it so it bends a little rather than snapping in two.

HDPE isn't a very common filament and needs much higher temperatures than PLA/PETG or even ABS. You'd almost certainly need an enclosure for the printer (to keep the local temperature high to mitigate the fast shrinkage speed) and the printing speed would have to be very very low. That, of course, is after you'd figured out how to extrude your HDPE waste into a filament. If I were you, I'd stick to PETG for now.

I don't know anything about the Anycubic printer, but it looks fine from the website. There are various different price ranges of 3D printer and the more you pay, the less fettling you'll have to do. It's up to you where you want to sit on that curve. The Enders and similar seem to be at the end of the scale where the printer becomes your hobby and you'll spend a lot of time (and possibly money) tweaking and adjusting and experimenting to get good printers. At the other end of the (hobby) scale is the Prusa printers, which are pretty much fire and forget. I went with the latter (Mk3s+ kit) as I saw it as a means to an end and wanted something that just works. It's reliable enough that I sometimes connect to it remotely to start a print and just trust that the print will be completed properly by the time I get home.

The other thing you need to think about is how to design your models. There are a few different options on the market, some free, some cheap, some eyewateringly expensive. The one I would recommend first would be OnShape. It's free, it's very very powerful and fairly easy to use as 3D parametric CAD goes. As it is a cloud-based thing, it doesn't need an extremely powerful computer to run. There are other options though (I've listed a few below). Whichever one you choose, make sure it supports STEP export as well as STL export. Get in the habit of exporting your models as STEP files regularly. If you ever lose access to your chosen CAD system, you'll be able to load the STEP files into another CAD system. You'll lose the history, but the model will be editable if you need to tweak anything.

CAD Options

• OnShape free version. Runs in a browser. The only real limitation of the free version is that your models will be public - i.e. if someone has a lot of time on their hands, they could search through the all the millions of public models and find yours. They won't be able to edit it, but they could download it and or take a copy which they could then edit. For non-commercial stuff, this isn't really a problem. Loads of tutorials available on-line and the support forums are excellent. Most of the tutorials are from the company themselves so they're kept up to date. Browser based so it'll run on any computer (Mac, Windows, Linux).
• Solid Edge Community Edition - again free. Very, very powerful CAD system from Siemens used by lots of professional organisations. Quite a steep learning curve though compared to OnShape. This is the most powerful option from the ones you can download onto your PC (as opposed to running in a browser) for free.
• SolidWorks Student Edition - currently £46.75 for a year (usually £120 I think) - discount ends on 18th December. This is probably the most powerful and best CAD system out there and it's quite easy to use (similar to OnShape in many ways - OnShape was created by ex-SolidWorks developers). There's an online training course run by the Titans of CNC Academy and if you sign up to that for free then you're eligible for the student version of SolidWorks. The disadvantage is it's a one year licence and it's unclear whether they will keep that offer open in the future.
• 3DExperience SolidWorks for Makers - $48 per year. This had the advantage over the other SolidWorks version that it's more likely to be available in the long term. However, what I've read on-line implies the 3DExperience version is a bit flaky and not well thought of.
• Autodesk Fusion 360 Personal - free, but Autodesk keep reducing the functionality in the free version and I can see this disappearing in the not-too-distant future. Makes my computer fan go crazy, suggesting it's quite demanding in terms of its hardware requirements. It works quite a bit differently to most other CAD systems I've used and is quite clunky compared to SolidWorks or OnShape. I can switch between OnShape, SolidWorks, Solid Edge, NX, ZW3D and FreeCAD without much thought, but it always takes me a while to get going with Fusion. Loads of tutorials on-line, although many are out-of-date as they're mostly from users rather than Autodesk.
• FreeCAD - open source and completely free and always will be. If you want to be absolutely sure you'll never lose access to your models, this is the best option. It's got quite a steep learning curve though and many online tutorials and videos are woefully out-of-date. It's getting more and more capable every time I look at it though. Learning curve is probably similar steepness to Fusion. Runs on anything (Windows, Mac, Linux).
• Alibre Atom 3D - about £200 I think. Popular on the Model Engineering forum, probably largely because it was pushed quite hard in some of the magazines for a while. I can only assume that Alibre paid a lot of money for this. While Atom3D is fine, it doesn't really offer anything that FreeCAD can't do. It does not support top-down modelling (designing stuff based on other stuff) and never will (as they keep that as a feature of their more expensive options).
• Design Spark Mechanical - I'm not even going to link to this one. It's free, but avoid like the plague - it doesn't allow STEP export (along with several other limitations).
• Sketchup. A completely different style of drawing compared to the others in this list. A lot of people get on with it, so it's worth considering if you don't "click" with the others. Based more directly around shoving shapes around (rather than extruding/revolving constrained sketches) and can be intuitive if you think that way (Solid Edge's synchronous modelling mode is a little bit like that too). The main disadvantages are that the models aren't parametric (so it can be hard to tweak things if one of your early dimensions were wrong) and that the models aren't really exportable in an editable form into other systems.

Then there are some other types of modelling systems where you're basically writing computer code (i.e. programming) to create your models. The main three I'm aware of are:

• OpenSCAD - popular and well documented and probably the best option if you're not familiar with any other programming languages. The only real disadvantage is that the language is a bit quirky.
• OpenJSCad - based on OpenSCAD but using javascript as a language instead. Runs entirely in a browser and is basically OpenSCAD with a nicer language.
• CADQuery/CQEditor - based on python, so a very capable programming language. Documentation leaves a bit to be desired, but it's getting better.

WOW! You really seem to know your stuff Dr Al

 

[Dr.Al]

WOW! You really seem to know your stuff Dr Al

I must admit to being ever so slightly obsessed with 3D CAD modelling :lol:

 

[Jonathan]

Thanks guys, I guess I have to bite the bullet and jump into this head first.

For 38 years I've been doing my designs with pencil and paper, looks like that's going to change.

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[Tellurian]

I bought a Prusa Mini back in April and absolutely love it. I have been amazed at how you can have a concept and take it through design to production so quickly.
I use Onshape pretty much exclusively. It does everything you might need but can be very complex and quite a learning curve.
A simpler option is Tinkercad. Another browser-based option that is a easy to use although not so full of features. I started with Tinkercad before moving on to Onshape.
Currently I'm producing tool holders for my tool cabinet. There are repositories where people upload their designs but I usually find that these don't quite meet my needs and end up creating my own design instead.

 

[fezman]

Bambu Lab X1C for me. Yes its a bit spendy, but I wanted something out of the box that just worked. I wanted something that I didn't have to upgrade or tweak or tune. Has that happened - yes absolutely not had to do anything other than grease the relevant bits. The only issue I have had was the display had an intermittent fault where it would freeze, requiring a reboot to get it working again. Emailed Bambu CS, sent them a video of it, replacement unit in less than a week. Now works flawlessly.

Fusion 360 (free version) for modelling. I'm not the greatest on it, always seem to learn something new when I use it. Love 3d Printing, if only work didn't get in the way of me doing more.

 

[Weekend_Woodworker]

Just joining this thread as I have just been persuaded by my offspring to invest in one. We went for the Creality Ender 3 v3 KE which worked out of the box with no tinkering. My son had also used a Bambu labs printer at Uni which was very nice, but I could justify it at about 4 times the price.

Got as far as running a test print at normal quality and am really impressed with it. Can I ask more experience printer users what sort of filament you use, both brand and material? How careful do you need to be with its storage? Do I need to vacuum bag it between uses?

Thanks

Mark


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[Dr.Al]

Just joining this thread as I have just been persuaded by my offspring to invest in one. We went for the Creality Ender 3 v3 KE which worked out of the box with no tinkering. My son had also used a Bambu labs printer at Uni which was very nice, but I could justify it at about 4 times the price.

Got as far as running a test print at normal quality and am really impressed with it. Can I ask more experience printer users what sort of filament you use, both brand and material? How careful do you need to be with its storage? Do I need to vacuum bag it between uses?

I use PETG exclusively. PLA is more brittle, so not great for the workshop uses that are my main use of the printer. PLA is also a little smelly when printing, whereas PETG has no smell at all. ABS is supposed to be good, but you need an enclosure & external ventilation & I've never got round to trying it. PETG does everything I need it to.

For PETG, it's best to keep it in a vacuum bag. If you don't, you'll get "stringing" - little wisps of fibre sticking out where the extruder has moved. They come off fairly easily, so not the end of the world, but it's nicer to be free of them. If the PETG does get a bit humid, you can resolve it easily enough by bunging it in the oven at a very low temperature for a lot of hours to dry it out.

As for brand, I haven't noticed much difference. This stuff is quite cheap and has worked fine for me.

 

[Weekend_Woodworker]

Thanks Al that is really helpful


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[oddsocks]

Just seen this thread whilst doing a catchup browse...

If you want a reliable UK manufacturer for filament have a look at 3DQF based in Manchester- cardboard spools, free quick delivery and reliable printing quality. I have tried a fair few amazon 'main' brands' but now use 3DQF whenever I can. I only buy 'foreign' filament now if I need a specific fancy shiny colour or finish.

Definitely invest in a cheap dehydrator (<£20) , cut the bottom out of one of the trays (so you can stack two to give the height needed for a filament spool), If my filament has been left on the printer for a few days I dry it for a couple of hours before vacuum sealing it...sunlu bags with usb pump -there is a cheaper option with a hand pump ...I bought that then purchased the usb pump as its easier.

+1 for onshape, I tried fusion, tinkercad and designexpert but settled on onshape. For a Slicer I've recently moved from cura to orcaslicer as I find it easier to use and get the same quality prints.

 

[RogerS]

Just joining this thread as I have just been persuaded by my offspring to invest in one. We went for the Creality Ender 3 v3 KE which worked out of the box with no tinkering. My son had also used a Bambu labs printer at Uni which was very nice, but I could justify it at about 4 times the price.

Got as far as running a test print at normal quality and am really impressed with it. Can I ask more experience printer users what sort of filament you use, both brand and material? How careful do you need to be with its storage? Do I need to vacuum bag it between uses?

Thanks

Mark


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How on earth are those bridges made? I'd have expected the hot filament to sag.

 

[StevieB]

I dry it for a couple of hours before vacuum sealing it...sunlu bags with usb pump -there is a cheaper option with a hand pump ...I bought that then purchased the usb pump as its easier.

Slightly off topic, but would that work as a vacuum bag for veneering, and do they do larger bags that 30x38cm? I have tried the 'vacuum cleaner bags for clothes storage' before and never found this reliable, so looking for alternatives that do not cost the earth - not come across filament drying like this before as I only have a resin printer

 

[Weekend_Woodworker]

How on earth are those bridges made? I'd have expected the hot filament to sag.

Hi Roger, I think the bridging is a combination of a hot extruder nozzle and some cooling fans to cook it quickly once extruded.

 

[oddsocks]

Slightly off topic, but would that work as a vacuum bag for veneering, and do they do larger bags that 30x38cm?

I've never tried that, but I think it would as when I bag the 3DQF reels that are cardboard the bag pulls the cardboard down tight as the bag conforms tightly to the shape and stays that way for weeks. I don't think they do bigger bags (some do smaller!) as they are marketed specifically for 3d filament reels. You could try bonding the valve area to a larger bag (I have a proper vacuum compressor and have used axminster plastic dust bags for this, with an air hose connector bolted in) - the pump would take some time to vacuum a much larger bag though.

 

[StevieB]

Thanks, much appreciated - one for the tuit list!