Ovoloe or Gothic spoke shave

[Boringgeoff]

Hi all, first up, let me say I have no idea what I'm talking about here, but.........
A friend of mine has a pretty extensive collection of spokeshaves which, I must say, he certainly knows how to use. Some are called Ovoloes and some Gothic but both cut the same profile and he was wondering what is the origin of these names for two similar tools? One example has Preston branded cutters, the other Mathiesons. Sorry I've no photo's but those of you who know the answer won't need any.

Cheers,
Geoff.

 

[DaveL]

Are you sure that they are spoke shaves?
They sound more like beading plates or scratch stocks, a picture would really help.

 

[Boringgeoff]

Hi DaveL,
Here are a couple of (poor quality) photo's. It wouldn't surprise me if these are the names that Preston and Mathieson used for their tools to discern them from other makers, even though they do the same job.

Cheers,
Geoff.

 

[Mike Jordan]

That’s very strange, I’ve never seen one of those in 65 years in the trade!

 

[AndyT]

I think I can help. I've wondered about these tools since I acquired this one:



It's not got any maker's or other mark on it, except on the cutters, which are just marked as 5/8 and a no 2.

Here are your friend Robin's (as seen in the latest Benchmark )



And here's a similar view of mine



The shortest and simplest answer I can offer is to look back at the catalogues where Preston and Mathieson listed these tools.


Here's Mathieson, in 1899. Three different profiles, four sizes, but no 9/16" Gothic



They illustrated these with just the gothic variant:



Here's Preston, in 1909.



Three different profiles, in four sizes. Maybe with a nod to the future collectors market, they offered the full range of twelve, plus specials!

So both makers knew the difference between the gothic and ovalo profile. They included handy charts in their catalogues. Here's an extract from Mathieson's:



You can see that the curved part of a gothic sash bar was very similar to the curved part of an ovalo sash bar. I think that's why, in practice, there it's really hard to spot the difference between the shaves offered for circular work to match them. Indeed, I expect a skilled worker could have used one tool to make either style, possibly by reshaping parts of the cutters so that different parts of the shape cut or don't cut, and maybe by making a rebate before cutting the profile.

I think you and Robin should try the gothic and ovalo variants as they are and see which bits do actually cut.

There would have been some variation in sizing but let's keep it simple and remember that the 5/8" measurement is the distance from the very edge of the moulding bar to the little notch that defines the end of the shape.

 

[DaveL]

Well I am pleased that Andy has posted those pictures, I was thinking they were for a particular moulding and he has confirmed that.

 

[Pete Maddex]

I have one of those without any makers mark on.

Pete

 

[Boringgeoff]

Thanks Andy,
as usual you've put a lot of work into your explanation and I really appreciate it. I've sent a link to Robin, reading it himself will be far better than me trying to explain it to him.
Cheers,
Geoff.

 

[Mike G]

I wonder how this tool was used in production window making. Do you think they had both blades down, sharpened, and in use at the same time? Or do you think they would use one side of the tool to make one side of a big pile of the mouldings, say on the edge of a board, and then swap over and do the other side in a batch? A bit depends, I suspect, on whether the mouldings were made from a strip of wood ripped and planed to final size, or whether the mouldings were made in the edge of a board and then ripped off. If the latter, the same single blade could be used, so long as the boards were flipped end-over-end. If the former, having two blades in use would mean the long thin strips could just be rolled over to have the other sides done.

Why would anyone use this scraper rather than a moulding plane?

 

[AndyT]

Mike, these are strictly for curved work. Think fanlights, arch headed windows etc.
On straight work you select your stock so that you plane with the grain when making the moulding.
On curved flat work you always plane downhill. But if you were running a moulding along the curved part of a fanlight, you need a mirror image of the moulding so you can work in either direction.

The copy text from the Preston catalogue mentions this as an advantage of the improved pattern.

I'll try and find a picture of the old style wooden shave later.

 

[Mike G]

Ah yes. Obvious, really.........

 

[AndyT]

Here's a photo of a wooden sash shave, made by Nurse and Co of 3 Mill St, Maidstone:

It's at this fascinating and very useful site, a collection of Cooper's tools and others in Sussex - https://cooperstoolmuseum.com/

According to BPM, Nurse were at the 3 Mill St address between 1867 and 1886. The following year they moved to London, continued to make planes, and operated several wonderful looking tool emporiums. They also published very detailed catalogues. Here's the relevant page from my copy of their 1902 issue:



The first eight rows are ordinary straight planes.

I think the tool in the picture must be a "Double Handed Wood Router to work Common Ovolo Mouldings". Very much like the cast iron "improved" version.

Looking back at the text in the Preston catalogue, there's the claim that their cast iron design "has a great advantage over the old style made in beechwood, which works only one way, and necessitates having two shaves". Maybe we shouldn't expect tool manufacturers to be the best tool historians, but that ignores the existence of this wooden double version and implies that there was only a single handed version. There don't seem to be very many of these around, but here's a picture of one by John Cockbain of Carlisle, again from the Cooper's Tool Museum:

An article by Jane Rees shows yet another pattern of sash shave, by Chapple of Manchester, similar to those used for handrails, where a single profile-matching blade is sharpened on two edges, so can cut in either direction.

I hope this is of interest.