• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Fall Batches

kirkpoore1

Old Oak
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
1,179
Reaction score
249
Location
O'Fallon, Illinois
OK, they were started in the summer, but there's no way they're getting done this month. As many of you saw, I recently got a big stack of wood delivered:
stack1.jpg


I need this much because I have a small side business making furniture for my medieval group, plus any custom work that comes along. So right now I'm starting getting ready for our Christmas event, and first up is a batch of Dantesca chairs and a larger batch of folding stools. I actually started on the chairs a couple of weeks ago, cutting out the leg blanks and the rails. The legs have been shaped, the centers cut to half thickness, the pivot hole bored, and the curve cut to size with a pattern on the shaper. No pictures then. But since last weekend was a 3 day weekend for me, I got out in the shop on Friday and started working:

First off was sanding. A lot of sanding:
sanding.jpg

When you've got 26 sycamore leg pieces (including two spares) being worked at two grits, it takes a while.

cleaning.jpg

And with the fine grit belt you have to stop and clean it with the rubber block frequently.

The inside curves are done on the spindle sander:
OSSanding.jpg

The spindle also needs cleaning frequently.

After sanding it was on to the shaper. The outside curves have two decorative grooves in them, so each leg needs four passes:
grooving.jpg


After grooving came edge rounding:
rounding.jpg

Again, four passes per leg.

The red oak rails get hand-planed. Better than sanding, but there are 24 of them:
planing_rail.jpg

It's a decent workout by the end.

Saturday morning was sunny and hot, and time for the first coat of finish (plain old boiled linseed oil):
rolling.jpg

Yes, you see it right. I'm putting it on with a roller. It's fast, and the sycamore in particular will soak in a giant amount of oil so it has to go on thick. Over 60 pieces took about an hour all told. In another hour I can back and wiped down the oak pieces (the sycamore legs didn't need it). These sat the rest of the day while I went on to stool parts.
first_coat.jpg


First up was to cut an oak 2x8 into 32" lengths for the leg blanks, then plane those down to a little over 1-1/2" thick. I also jointed a walnut 6x6 section, and resawed that into 2x6 pieces, and planed down to the same thickness. Then I ripped the blanks on the table saw:
stool_leg1.jpg


After a little more planing to final size, here was the result:
stool_leg2.jpg


Then on to the rails. Again, both walnut and red oak:
planing_rails.jpg

This was a red oak plank running through the thicknesser to get it down to 3/4".

I cut the blanks to length on the RAS. Here's the stack. As you see from the one in front, there were some big splits in some of these:
rail_blanks.jpg


Half of these will be 3-1/2" wide, the other half 2" wide. The wider ones have a curve cut in the top edge:
top_rail_profile.jpg

Each top rail also had the edges rounded on the shaper, and a groove cut through on the little overarm router to accommodate the cloth seat. Better pictures on these next time.

I also spent two hours on the chair parts hand-wiping on oil varnish. Too thick to spray or roll, and hard to get into the decorative grooves. Glad I did that first, because it was another hot day (95 F/35 C).

On Monday morning I got back to the chairs and did the tenoning and mortising. Here we go:
tenon1.jpg

tenon2.jpg

Now, for those of you who haven't fallen over with heart attacks from seeing an unguarded flat belt and barely guarded tenon heads, here's what's going on:
Each end of each leg needs a 3/4" x 3/4" tenon on it. These tenons need to be perpendicular to the ground--not an easy thing to do consistently on S-shaped legs. I tried a lot of stuff--hand cutting, bandsaw, tenon jig on the table saw, even double heads with a spacer on the shaper. None gave good, consistent results with any kind of speed. So I bought an old tenoner and fixed it up.

But I still need to get consistent results. To manage this I came up with the jig in the second pic. This is an inverted T-shaped contraption that screws to the tenoner table fence. It has a 3/4" dowel mounted perpendicular to the base of the T. This gives a registration point for the leg pivots. The second registration point is the leg outside edge, claimped down to the table. Held in place, I just push it through the tenoner (note the spinning lower cutterhead).

Here they are, after the top tenon is cut:
tenon3.jpg

I have a second similar jig I use with the bottom tenon:
pairs.jpg

Total time for 52 tenons, including two setups, was about an hour. And the results are great.

Next was mortising. Same problem here--consistency in mortise locations for the rails. Again, a jig to the rescue:
mortise_jig.jpg

You will again notice a dowel through the leg pivot hole, and the leg clamped to the fence. This again gives consistent results, though 4 setups are required. 52 more holes in about 40 minutes, including 4 setups. Fortunately, the same jig is used for all four setups so after the first one (getting the chisel in place and the depth set right), each other setup takes under a minute.

So here's where I am now on the legs, ready to assemble after drilling the peg holes for the mortises:
Ready.jpg


I need to get a couple of these assembled in the coming weekend, and also get two folding stools done.

Kirk
 
Good to see a production run for a change as opposed to our usual one offs.

You say how long each step took so I'd guess you stay on top of the costings for labour as well as materials. Makes repetitive work go easier when you know you are making money.

Do those curved blanks nest on a plank to save material or is there a lot of waste?
 
Robert":khl9cqs5 said:
Do those curved blanks nest on a plank to save material or is there a lot of waste?

Yes, they kind of nest against each other. But they have to snake around defects, so that means I might get four legs out of a 2 x 16 x 38 plank with few defects or maybe only two (and, on rare occasions, only one) out of a bad board. I try to cut most of the feet out of the waste, but most of the was just goes in the burn pile.

Oh, and on the production run part: One of the things I like about this is the chance to perfect the process. It bugs me when things don't come out well, and refining both the chair design and the building process to make them better gives me a good boost. I've built over a hundred of these chairs and have learned a lot by working out the deficiencies in how I do things.

Kirk
 
You have some nice old iron in the shop that is well used, I like that. I made 8 folding garden chairs, that took longer than your work to date on this batch.
 
Thinking about this for a second, Kirk........I wonder if those legs would be easier to machine if you worked in the following order:

-central pivot hole
-mortices
-tenons
-bandsawing/ shaping?

That way, you would be working with straight bits of wood on your machines making the mortices and the tenons, using the hole as a reference. Only then do the final shaping.
 
Mike G":3fozrlu3 said:
Thinking about this for a second, Kirk........I wonder if those legs would be easier to machine if you worked in the following order:

-central pivot hole
-mortices
-tenons
-bandsawing/ shaping?

That way, you would be working with straight bits of wood on your machines making the mortices and the tenons, using the hole as a reference. Only then do the final shaping.

That certainly sounds like it would save time and make life easier Mike. But wouldn't it make getting as many pieces out of one plank harder, if you had to cut out a square edged 'blank' for each one? Or do you thing the mortices and tenons could be cut out for several legs while they are all still in the single plank?

Terry.

PS fantastic post Kirk!
 
Mike G":qgulr1dd said:
Thinking about this for a second, Kirk........I wonder if those legs would be easier to machine if you worked in the following order:

-central pivot hole
-mortices
-tenons
-bandsawing/ shaping?

That way, you would be working with straight bits of wood on your machines making the mortices and the tenons, using the hole as a reference. Only then do the final shaping.

Unfortunately, Mike, although the tenons are approximately parallel with each other, the mortises aren't parallel to each other, let alone to the tenons. And Terry is right--either each leg would have to come out of a single standard size board, or I would have to rigidly locate each one in a plank. The former would lead to a lot of waste, and the latter wouldn't let me work around defects in the wood, and the throat of the mortise isn't that deep anyway so I don't know that it would reach. And the tenoner wouldn't work at all in the second case.

As it is, the setup evolved into something that works pretty well. Sure, it took a while to figure it out, but now each mortise and tenon takes a few seconds. Two mortises and two tenons on a leg take maybe a minute--excluding setup time, of course.:)

Kirk
 
Another weekend, another pile of pictures:

I started Friday evening by putting the dado stack on the RAS and then cutting dadoes in the arms to accommodate the chair back:
dado_stack.jpg


Here's one of the cuts:
dado_cut2.jpg


This is the stack of arms. You can see the dadoes cut into them:
arm_dadoes.jpg


After that was cutting the top & bottom shoulders on the rails, all done on the small bandsaw:
chair_rails.jpg

With the rails notched, I was ready to start assembly. But that was all for the evening--somebody was calling:
done.jpg


On Saturday, I started up again with assembly. Each chair has 16 M&T joints, and each joint is pegged with a 1/4" dowel. I use enough of these that I buy them in bags of a thousand each, in 1-1/2" and 2" lengths. I get more every year or two:
dowels.jpg


Here's the assembly sequence. Laying out and applying glue to the rail mortises:
chair_assy1.jpg


Rails inserted:
chair_assy2.jpg


Second leg added:
chair_assy3.jpg


Clamping and pegging the joints:
chair_assy4.jpg


Putting on the feet. It's really hard to get the feet tight, since there is no good place to clamp them. I found the best way to do it is to use a ratcheting strap.
chair_assy5_strap.jpg


On to the second pair of legs. Since they interlock with the first, I put the rails into the first leg before adding it to the first pair of legs:
chair_assy6.jpg


Adding the second leg:
chair_assy7.jpg


Clamping up the rails:
chair_assy8.jpg


Putting on the second foot:
chair_assy9.jpg


I forgot to take a picture of the assembled chair. I did two before moving on to the folding stools.

The next step on the stools was cutting the overlap dadoes which allow the halves to pivot. This is done on the RAS with each leg held in a jig. This jig is bolted to the table because the RAS really likes to pull into things when it's got the dado set on it. Anyway, the stool leg sits in the jig here:
dadojig1.jpg


Here is a cut. The angle is such that I really don't want my hand anywhere near this:
dadojig2.jpg

This was pretty much it for Saturday, since I went over to a friends for a barbecue.

I still had to crosscut the rails to give pivoting room. After drilling the pivot holes, I used a bolt as a pivot and put a second leg as a crosspiece, squared it up, and used it to draw the cut lines:
square_mark.jpg

And then cut the rail again:
square_cut.jpg


After the dadoes were done, it was on to mortising. Half the legs have mortises on the dado side, and the rest have them on the opposite. As it happens, I have 12 legs with the mortises all on the same side, leftover from a miscutting incident last year. So I cut all the mortises on these on the opposite side.
mortising.jpg


After the mortising I cut the profiles:
cut_profiles.jpg


Sanding the cut surfaces:
inside_curve_sanding.jpg

This was followed by much more excruciatingly dull sanding, edge rounding, and planing. I then put on the first coat of finish.

The legs pivot on a pair of 5/16" carriage bolts. To make them look better, I ground off the ID numbers on the heads and then paint the heads, washers and lock nuts with charcoal grill paint:
grill_paint.jpg


I then drilled, cut out, and sanded the small roundels to be used as bosses:
roundel_sanding.jpg


And here are the first two, assembled with one coat of finish and no seats:
frames_done.jpg


I will be going out of town for the next two weekends, so will only be able to make progress on the weeknights.

Kirk
 
Rod;

Yes, I sell them at a few events per year, plus some internet orders.

I've been busy with other stuff for the last two weekends, but have made some progress. The Dantesca chairs are all assembled and I've started on the backs:

Batch_assembled.jpg


seat_backs.jpg

I planed these down to 3/4", but I wanted to let them sit for a while and let them move before taking them down to the final 5/8" thickness. So I've moved on to more folding stools;

marked_legs.jpg

Stack of marked legs.

cutting_profile.jpg

cutting_profile2.jpg

Sawing the profiles on the bandsaw.

cutting_profile2.jpg

Profiles cut, now the sanding begins (ugh).

waiting.jpg

But somebody is waiting patiently...

sanding_2.jpg

The 6x48 belt sander removes the saw marks pretty quickly. It can't quite get down into all the foot/head cut points though.

profile_sanded.jpg

Profiles sanded. I sure wish the dust port wasn't mounted on the belt cover, though. I got into the corners of the profile on the spindle sander. Slower, but more versatile.

I next rounded the edges with a quarter-round cutter on the shaper (no pics, though). Unfortunately, a few of the legs are a little warped, so I had to finish with a spokeshave:
spokeshaving.jpg


sanding_1.jpg

Sanding the faces.

sanded.jpg

Sanding done. Next step, sometime this week, will be two coats of finish. I also have to make some roundels for them.

Kirk
 
Last week and over the weekend I managed to do a lot of finishing, and then got some assembly done. Only a couple of pictures, though:

5done.jpg

These are the first five from this batch. One more coat of finish to go, and then of course the seats. Three of these are spoken for.

parts.jpg

I have parts for one more ready to assemble, and then three more in various stages of work beyond that. And I have to get back to the dantescas to get two of those done for delivery in two weeks.

Kirk
 
Kirk, pardon my ignorance, but what is a Dantescas? :?

I did a surf and came up with a whole lot of Spanish things that don't look like woodwork.

Cheers
Phil
 
Phil":1wfq5h7p said:
Kirk, pardon my ignorance, but what is a Dantescas? :?

I did a surf and came up with a whole lot of Spanish things that don't look like woodwork.

Cheers
Phil

Sorry, those are the curved leg folding chairs at the top of the thread. They're called Dantesca chairs because one was featured in a painting of Dante and some other medieval Italian poets. I think the name was first applied in the 19th century.

Kirk
 
Finally, a few of these are ready to go out:
chairs.jpg

Not the greatest shot, but the best I could do with all the lights on and not using the flash. The chairs get delivered Saturday.

oakstools.jpg

These stools get delivered next month.

walnut_stool.jpg

This one goes to my ex-wife. I get to keep the computer desk, and she gets this when she moves her s*** out of my house Thursday.

Kirk
 
It's been over a month, and I've got a lot done in that time, but of course not nearly as much as I'd hoped. Anyway, here's more:

In late October I started gathering up all the leftover parts to see what I could make of them with the least additional work. I had enough on had to assemble these two stool frames:
stool_frames.jpg


Then it was time to start making more stool parts to fill out the ones I had some parts already started on:
next_batch.jpg

These are legs.

While I was ripping the legs, I saved some pieces to make music stand legs:
stand_legs.jpg


Here's what the completed stands will look like. As you can see, it has one turned leg, which unscrews to two pieces:
stand.jpg


Once I'd selected and ripped those pieces, I went back to the stool legs.
more_legs.jpg

Each of these will need a cut away section in the middle for the folding joint, then mortising on the proper face, then cutting the profile, sanding, and rounding. And then more sanding.

I also had to get supplies for seats. A friend who sews well makes up the seat except for the last seam. Each seat is upholstery fabric backed by canvas to limit stretching. I then cut them down for the particular stool or chair, and then hem and sew down the remaining seat loop. I have an old cast iron Singer industrial sewing machine to do this:
sewing.jpg


Of course, I also needed sewing supplies:
not_Just_wood.jpg

I mean, don't you just go out and buy 15,000 yards of thread, extra bobbins, a seam ripper, and a thread stand for all your furniture projects?:)

Here's the above seat, plus a couple of completed chairs with new seats also:
finished_set.jpg


More tomorrow.

Kirk
 
After a bunch more slogging through November, I finally had these last weekend:

all.jpg

Fifteen chairs and stools complete and ready to go.

chairs_1.jpg


large.jpg

These are the large stools. They're pretty good for anybody who's at least 5'6", but really too tall for others. Three of these are sold. I also have one more that's waiting for a seat.

small.jpg

Smaller stools. Too short for many people, so I usually only make a few of them.

At this point, it was time to move on to something different. I make pine trestles, essentially 3-legged sawhorses, which come apart and are easily packed for transport. These are made with plain old 2x4's and some 1x4 and 1x6 stock.

All the 2x4's get planed down to 1-1/4" thickness:
planing.jpg


The 1x stock gets down to form trapezoids, and these will be nailed and screwed onto the legs to form a sort of A-frame:
countersink.jpg

Each piece has countersunk screw holes drilled in it. The countersinking lets the holes be plugged to hide the screws. I've found that nails alone sometimes come apart.

trefoil.jpg

The crossbar on the A-frame has trefoils for decoration. Simple to do with a forstner bit.

trefoil_pair.jpg

The A-frame tops have partial trefoils which are best cut in pairs, so I use a jig to hold two of them together.

bevel.jpg

All trefoils get beveled on the overarm router.

nailing.jpg

An A-frame getting nailed together. This one has already been screwed together and the holes plugged.

Today I got onto the L-shaped 3rd leg/crossbar piece. These are two pieces held together with a mortise and tenon joint, made here:

tenoning.jpg


mortising_1.jpg


Rails.jpg

Crossbars after mortising. The smaller mortises will be wedge holes.

rail_notch2.jpg

The crossbars get a big notch on the bandsaw. This part goes through the A-frame.

mortise_pegs.jpg

Assembled crossbar, about to be pegged.

trestles.jpg

Four pairs of finished trestles.

Kirk
 
Back
Top