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stephen.wood125

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You know how I haven't posted any WIP or useful info for a while as I've been working in Milan and had no time?

Apparently, boredom and eBay are a terrible mix.

I won a Meddings LF FS which needs restoration. Apparently the motor is non standard without the correct drive pulley, but the quill is in great shape.


I'm collecting it when I'm home for the weekend next Saturday so will stick some pics up.

I have a feeling the excellent links to places to buy stuff will be getting some of my disposable in the non too distant!

:obscene-drinkingcheers:

Stephen
 
Should be a sound machine and a very good price too! :eusa-clap: curious that there is no motor capacitor visible. Might be 3 phase. I've not been able to read the motor plate as the photo resolution is not good enough in the listing.
Might be 1/4hp which is a bit low. Says NVR fitted but not shown. I think I'd fit 1/2 -3/4 hp 3 phase motor on it and add an inverter as well as a new cone pulley for electronic variable speed and max torque when needed.
Once you have had a continuously variable speed machine such as a drill, you won't want to go back to a basic one.

Good Luck

Bob
 
Thanks chaps!

Yes, despite it needing pretty extensive restoration I'm very happy with the price- I'd struggle to get the castings alone for a whisker over £80!

Also, many of the decent drills/tools etc are usually down south so factoring in the fuel and time this was certainly worth a punt. :lol:

@Bob, ok, now I'm intrigued! I think the current motor is definitely going in the 'misc' box and I will be replacing it with a proper one- the idea of a 3 phase and converter is very interesting. I guess a rotary phase converter is the way to go? Self build or off the shelf?

EDIT: It's dawned on me you were probably referring to a VFD :oops:

Many years ago I restored an old Kity 636 PT and sold it for a decent profit (in the wheeler dealer's vein-i.e. not counting my time :lol: I really enjoyed the process, however if the condition is within my abilities to restore this will be a keeper (and if not, a boat anchor! :cry: :? :lol: )

Thanks

:eusa-dance:
 
Yes, definitely a VFD for a drill. There are a few cases where static and rotary converters come into their own but virtually all requirements are better met with inverters.

I've still got 2 static and one rotary converter in use in the workshops but 6 inverters do most of the work.

Bob
 
9fingers":aohbygg8 said:
Should be a sound machine and a very good price too! :eusa-clap: curious that there is no motor capacitor visible. Might be 3 phase. I've not been able to read the motor plate as the photo resolution is not good enough in the listing.
Might be 1/4hp which is a bit low. Says NVR fitted but not shown. I think I'd fit 1/2 -3/4 hp 3 phase motor on it and add an inverter as well as a new cone pulley for electronic variable speed and max torque when needed.
Once you have had a continuously variable speed machine such as a drill, you won't want to go back to a basic one.

Good Luck

Bob
Click to expand...

:text-+1: for VFD. Bob kindly fitted one to a Fobco for me and it is superb.
 
Great thanks David!

i've already been searching for a 3 phase motor, Apparently the Meddings has a 5/8" shaft motor as standard so I will try to do that to keep it somewhat simple as I don't have the facility to bore/turn anything.

That's a slippery slope I'm sure I will end up on just wallet won't allow it yet!

:text-lol:
 
Hi again chaps,

Reporting from Rainy Milano.

Collected the drill. Lovely! The chap I got it from was a really fantastic guy with a fabulous workshop generous with his knowledge and experience too. He has one of the newer bigger brothers of the drill now, what was extra fortunate was that he was converting this to single phase to use in his 'shop. This meant I got a Brooks Crompton 3/4hp 3 phase motor with the correct shaft size, correct frame size, looking like new for £35!

Since then, I've been onto Lathes.co.uk and got a repro manual, Meddings themselves and got a new motor pulley, belt and a couple of other small bits. Finally Bilt Hamber for some of their awesome rust treatment kit.

Just need a VFD, some cable, and time really. @Bob, Do you have any recommendations for the VFD or are they mostly similar Chiwanese boxes? Thanks for your patience, sorry if it's a stupid question!

I've made a start dismantling the drill. Just a couple of quick pics for the moment as I am stranded away from it until the weekend.









The only thing missing, that Meddings can no longer supply (parts are rather limited for the MK III) is the lovely badge :( :cry: I will have to keep a look-out for one as I'd really like to reinstate that!

Oh, one final picture is the baby S/P motor it came with which will probably head to the bay of E.



More soon, Cheers.
 
stephen.wood125":q0jao409 said:
This meant I got a Brooks Crompton 3/4hp 3 phase motor with the correct shaft size, correct frame size, looking like new for £35!



Just need a VFD, some cable, and time really. @Bob, Do you have any recommendations for the VFD or are they mostly similar Chiwanese boxes? Thanks for your patience, sorry if it's a stupid question!
Click to expand...

Hopefully the motor is a 4 pole (1425)? The drill speeds are all up the high end - a common problem with un geared machines so the inverter needs to work hard to give you power at lower speed for things like big forstner bits and any trepanning work you might want to do in metal. 500 rpm is a bit fast even for 1/2" drill in steel.
It is critical that we know if the motor is dual voltage before buying an inverter. So save bother it really needs to be run in 230v delta mode. There are ways round for 415v volt only motors so don't dispair

I normally favour Siemens inverters but these are difficult to find at good prices now as ebay sellers particularly know their value.
You definitely need one with "vector" mode or "sensorless flux detection" as key words. These will crank up the power at lower speeds which is particularly important for a drill press, mill or lathe applications
Whilst many will no doubt be made in the far east, most have western sounding brand names.
What ever you buy make absolutely sure first that you can access a programming manual for the exact model. Without this they are a chocolate teapot and not even heavy enough to use as a door stop or boat anchor.
You also want one with a display. Newer models are designed with the display as an extra so you need that too in order to see what you are programming. (NB Programming is rarely done via a PC and even if this is supported, you need a serial comms module, and older PC with a serial port and special software and it all gets very hard)
You sound like the sort of chap who will be able to work out the programming fairly easily anyway but you DO need the book of words.
I buy and sell a lot of inverters and you would not believe the strange programming set up that used ones arrive with. The chance of getting one that will work straight out of the box is fairly minimal so you need the book if only to find the code for factory reset!

hth

Bob
 
Hi Bob,

yes you're right it's a 4 pole 1425 RPM- fortunately I checked first :)

That's (as always) an absolutely huge help. I shall do some digging. I can make a start getting my hands dirty making the drill look right etc anyhow.

Many thanks for the help and patience!

More pics to follow :)

Steve
 
Sorry, yes it is.

It's a touch fiddlier than some to convert as they have two coloured wires on each wiring post with ring terminals on so I have to undo the nut, and rather than moving metal bridges, I have to swap the wiring arrangement and re-fix to the post. Apologies for not having a picture to hand- stupidly I didn't take one.

The motor plate clearly states dual voltage and a diagram under the wiring cover gives the colours I need to have connected together to put it in Delta mode.

EDIT:

This is a copy of the inside of the motor wiring cover 'borrowed' from Google images.

I realise the irony and also how rude it is to thank you for your patience and then immediately try it with vague answers lacking in crucial detail- sorry about that!

Thanks for checking that I was at least somewhat less likely to blow myself up!
 
No problem!
230v delta means you can use a standard (vector) 230 in 230 out inverter. Makes life a lot easier.
You might not find a a 3/4 hp one (550 Watt) but just use a 1hp (750 Watt) and programme it down to 3/4hp to make sure it protects the motor fully.

hth
Bob
 
small text based update with a couple of Questions;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151687674678? ... EBIDX%3AIT

1. I got the above inverter which I think is rather old (Siemens list is as stopped production in 2006, discontinued in 2012). is £70 a worthwhile gamble? I have the pdf manual and it seems to be suitable (550W single phase to 3 phase w/ sensorless vector control etc)

2. I've totally stripped the drill down into pieces now I removed the old chuck with the intention of cleaning it up, however if it's not possible I would need (it seems) a JT2 chuck which either seem to be quite small, expensive or hard to get.

Is it feasible to buy/make a sleeve that would allow a B16 chuck to fit on a JT2 spindle?

Thanks all, pics to follow.
 
That inverter should be just fine. I'm not sure of the difference but I use a lot of the 6SE32xxxxx series which look identical to your 6SE92xxxxx one.
If you get stuck programming just shout.
B16 and JT6 chuck and adaptors to MT2 are readily available.
Arceutrotrade are one of many suppliers who should be able to sort you out if needed. Chronos is another.

HTH

Bob
 
Hi Bob,

That's great news. Very generous of you, I've already been looking through the PDF and have to confess I'm quite looking forward to getting stuck in :)

Actually the taper on the drill is the Jacobs taper Where the chuck has the 'female' part and the drill spindle has a c.3/4" to c.5/8" taper, as this is thinner than the B16, I wondered if I could get a kind of topless thimble i.e. outside diameter and taper to fit a B16 and the inside to fit a JT2. I shall have a look at the places you kindly recommended and see what's available,

Thanks again!

:obscene-drinkingcheers:

EDIT actually Chronos have a JT2 Jacobs keyed chuck which will do 13mm which is probably fine.
 
stephen.wood125":1lhu1b5b said:
Actually the taper on the drill is the Jacobs taper Where the chuck has the 'female' part and the drill spindle has a c.3/4" to c.5/8" taper, as this is thinner than the B16, I wondered if I could get a kind of topless thimble i.e. outside diameter and taper to fit a B16 and the inside to fit a JT2. I shall have a look at the places you kindly recommended and see what's available,

Thanks again!

:obscene-drinkingcheers:

EDIT actually Chronos have a JT2 Jacobs keyed chuck which will do 13mm which is probably fine.
Click to expand...

Some drills have a fixed male taper other a female MT2 type taper.
I've never seen any inter series adaptors

For info, the B series tapers usually found in the back of imported chucks are various sections of a morse taper , same angle but much shorter.

The programming is not rocket science but the terminology can be confusing especially when written in CHilnglish! Siemens ones are pretty good but the newer 400 series are fiendishly complicated. I think you have picked the best of the range for your job. The worst you might have to do is fit a new fan if the bearing are noisy - at least it will remind you to turn it off !
The only siemens one I've had back under warranty in all the years I've been reselling them was due to a dead fan

Bob
 
Thanks a lot, Bob!

Extremely helpful as always. :obscene-drinkingcheers: :obscene-drinkingcheers:


EDIT: in the interest of helping anyone in the future looking for info on the Meddings LF1 Mk III It actually appears to be a JT6 and the original chuck (from the engravings on it) was a Jacobs No 34 0-1/2" (1-13mm)
 
Stephen,

I had reason to try and find the difference between the 6SE32 series and the 6SE92 series inverter today

As far as I can find out the 92 series are non vector types and the 32 series are vector types.

This seems contrary to what you are saying above?

The 3rd photo in the ebay listing does not mention vector on the label which supports my theory.

If you are correct then no problems, however if my searches are correct then the inverter is not ideal for the drill as it could lose power at low speed settings.
Just thought I should bring it to your attention to check.

Cheers

Bob
 
Haha Bob,

You are a mind reader. In my research I dug deeper and discovered the same thing. The other document I was using was unclear which were vector and which weren't. I found the proper documentation by registering on the SIemens site and reading through their manuals- To say I had 'jumped early' was an understatement. This is the problem with looking at these things on a phone screen! :lol:

For now I will likely build the drill with the non-vector drive as it will largely be for woodworking initially plus I don't have 3 phase supply here so it will have to be "mark1, proof of concept" and then I will replace it with the correct type in the future.

Thanks again for the warning- I shall put a £70 tick into the "must do more research before sending an offer" box.

The advice is much appreciated! :obscene-drinkingcheers:
 
Well, in a time of much inertia, I've taken the drill to pieces, and looked at it.

367B33B0-051C-4CED-90C4-F83E2FAC0CD2_zpsosp9svys.jpg


The bearings are 90% good, but there is the tiniest hint of catch in them, so they are out and new ones ordered.

The bits in the picture above after some faffing with degreaser and such have been dropped off at a local shot blaster.

I've briefly tried the (wrong) inverter I bought and it seems like at least to get it all in and working it will suffice.

I've built an old laptop with an RS485 converter and downloaded the Siemens management software to make configuring the inverter a touch more 'fun' (or at least detailed)

I've bought some new SY cable and started making a mounting plate for the inverter.

I've got all the small parts in a segregated container ready for dipping in my Bilt Hamber Deox solution.

I've got some deep grey topcoat and some high build primer, ready for when the drill bits come back.

I guess it's jurry up and wait for the bits so I can start to make it look at least somewhat drill like.

I'm still looking for the Meddings badge :S
 
Hi again,

Had a small window of time tonight.

8F3F96E8-2E39-4182-AF3D-7345784248ED_zps0h2r1cpl.jpg


Removed the old bearings and cleaned the shaft, quill and spring box up on my wood lathe.

N.B. Before anyone shouts at me or thinks I'm even more stupid than I demonstrably am, I did not go anywhere near the bearing contact points, chuck mounting, or the part of the quill which touches the bushes.

The mankiest part of the shaft was the exposed part between the bottom bearing and the chuck. I shielded the "do not touch" parts with several layers of electrician's tape before anything abrasive was put within 3'!

To be honest with the exception of the spring box, the majority just got cleaned with WD and some 0000 wire wool and then a brief dusting with Autosol.

The spring box got a brass wire brushing, then some P600-P1200 and finally some Belgon Alu polish/protectant.

Thanks for reading. :obscene-drinkingcheers:
 
Haha, Thanks Bob. :lol:

Yes, I may try to dress the spring box a little so it's less 'garish' I'm not a premiership footballer after all.

The pillar is going to end up quite dowdy, but I don't have a way to clean it without potentially compromising the accuracy.

All of this of course assumes my ersatz ADHD won't kick in and the rest gets 'thrown together'. My main drive is a solid accurate drill that will outlast me. That said, i REALLY want a Meddings badge :lol: 8-)
 
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