The Niff-Naff Cabinet; sanding, detailing and finishing.

[duke]

Looking very nice.

 

[Cabinetman]

Yes nice, particularly like the small (non clunky) section of the shelves. That stuff is a beggar to work Rob, I would have been tempted to dispose of it some way I think! As I mentioned before I don’t think I have your almost extreme level of patience lol.
I’m curious about the B square as to why the corner has been removed by the maker, I would definitely have preferred it almost sharp to aid marks being transferred, I did look at their site and it’s various uses btw.
Ian

 

[Woodbloke]

Yes nice, particularly like the small (non clunky) section of the shelves. That stuff is a beggar to work Rob, I would have been tempted to dispose of it some way I think! As I mentioned before I don’t think I have your almost extreme level of patience lol.
I’m curious about the B square as to why the corner has been removed by the maker, I would definitely have preferred it almost sharp to aid marks being transferred, I did look at their site and it’s various uses btw.
Ian

The shelves were quarter sawn as I mentioned Ian and so very prone to horrible tear out and other such nasties. I deliberately left them at 5mm from the planer thicknesses, knowing that I would be sanding off a lot of material to finish at 4mm. At least quarter sawn shelves ought not to bow or twist as I'd left them 'conditioning' in stick for a couple of months.

The little B square belies it's usefulness as it's something I reach for time and again to aid marking out etc. It's not cheap, but it's a nice, heavy cast iron gizmo to have on the 'Tool Wall' and after having used it now for some time, it's not something I'd be without. No idea though, why that corner has been machined off! - Rob

 

[Cabinetman]

The shelves were quarter sawn as I mentioned Ian and so very prone to horrible tear out and other such nasties. I deliberately left them at 5mm from the planer thicknesses, knowing that I would be sanding off a lot of material to finish at 4mm. At least quarter sawn shelves ought not to bow or twist as I'd left them 'conditioning' in stick for a couple of months.

The little B square belies it's usefulness as it's something I reach for time and again to aid marking out etc. It's not cheap, but it's nice, heavy cast iron gizmo to have on the 'Tool Wall' and after having used it now for some time, it's not something I'd be without. No idea though, why that corner has been machined off! - Rob

And you had me looking at it again with a covetous eye, then I saw the internal diameter at just under 20mm, looked at my fat sausage fingers and realised there was no way they would fit, shame.
Ian

 

[Woodbloke]

The six shelves now need to be further sanded, (no chance whatsoever of an edge tool near this stuff) having come off the 80g loading on the drum sander, but being a smidge over 4mm they're difficult to hold unless a:



...rather splendid custom built holding jig is knocked together; four bits of thin ply and eight panel pins! The first sand at 120g is shown;



...and eventually they'll finish at 320g - Rob

 

[Accipiter]

A video on my YouTube feed the other day about finishing wood surfaces had me wondering... based on some Japanese methods... no sanding but using "scrappers" instead to get a smooth surface - sanding leaving scratches even when using extremely fine grades...

If I come across it again - or it comes up in the feeds again - I'll get the link to share for discussion.

First thing that came to my mind was tad painful on the thumbs

 

[Woodbloke]

A video on my YouTube feed the other day about finishing wood surfaces had me wondering... based on some Japanese methods... no sanding but using "scrappers" instead to get a smooth surface - sanding leaving scratches even when using extremely fine grades...

If I come across it again - or it comes up in the feeds again - I'll get the link to share for discussion.

First thing that came to my mind was tad painful on the thumbs

There is obviously some truth in that, but beyond the very fine grades, you can't see them! We did a trial years ago when I worked for a firm making stuff for Linley (Linners) and at 320g and up the scratch pattern couldn't be seen; you could even sand across the grain and still not see the scratch pattern. Everything made for Linners was finished to 320g and often 240g on open grained timbers like Oak.

That little Festool jobbie is a finishing sander and I can guarantee that you won't see the scratches at 320g....can you spot any on the back panel ('cos that's how it was finished)?? - Rob

 

[Cabinetman]

There is obviously some truth in that, but beyond the very fine grades, you can't see them! We did a trial years ago when I worked for a firm making stuff for Linley (Linners) and at 320g and up the scratch pattern couldn't be seen; you could even sand across the grain and still not see the scratch pattern. Everything made for Linners was finished to 320g and often 240g on open grained timbers like Oak.

That little Festool jobbie is a finishing sander and I can guarantee that you won't see the scratches at 320g....can you spot any on the back panel ('cos that's how it was finished)?? - Rob

Quite agree about the grades, a lot of them over here say they go over a thousand, bonkers, surely they can (or can’t) see that there’s no discernible difference?

 

[Accipiter]

I agree with you both Rob, Ian... I was just intrigued by his video - a fair bit of waffle and shots of different stuff such as using a Japanese plane to get the thinnest of shavings from the wood, almost able to see through - but that belongs with the competitions they hold... and the video shared not so long ago.

As well as the scraper use there was also the mention of the finish applied - Urushi? - and furnishings with wood shavings. *Master Kenji" - This one possibly... if you've 20 minutes to spare - or 5 if you skip through

 

[Woodbloke]

Quite agree about the grades, a lot of them over here say they go over a thousand, bonkers, surely they can (or can’t) see that there’s no discernible difference?

That's completely barking Ian!

I agree with you both Rob, Ian... I was just intrigued by his video - a fair bit of waffle and shots of different stuff such as using a Japanese plane to get the thinnest of shavings from the wood, almost able to see through - but that belongs with the competitions they hold... and the video shared not so long ago.

As well as the scraper use there was also the mention of the finish applied - Urushi? - and furnishings with wood shavings. *Master Kenji" - This one possibly... if you've 20 minutes to spare - or 5 if you skip through

Most of the time, the Japanese use very different timbers to those in the West and as far as I recollect, there's none that they use to make furniture (Japanese Oak and Zelkova are common) which are like Bubinga and similar, though more than happy to be proved wrong! That means that their lovely, relatively straight grained timbers are easy to plane and scrape.

Having seen fragments of that clip, quite a lot of it is the usual UToob crap and needs to be taken with a large dose of salt. The Japanese unquestionably use urishi lacquer for all very fine furniture finishing and having been up close and very personal to it (less than 100mm on a Kenji Suda piece) it easily surpasses any finish (inc French Polish) that we use in the West - Rob

 

[Accipiter]

Most of the time, the Japanese use very different timbers to those in the West and as far as I recollect, there's none that they use to make furniture (Japanese Oak and Zelkova are common) which are like Bubinga and similar, though more than happy to be proved wrong! That means that their lovely, relatively straight grained timbers are easy to plane and scrape.

Having seen fragments of that clip, quite a lot of it is the usual UToob crap and needs to be taken with a large dose of salt. The Japanese unquestionably use urishi lacquer for all very fine furniture finishing and having been up close and very personal to it (less than 100mm on a Kenji Suda piece) it easily surpasses any finish (inc French Polish) that we use in the West - Rob

I tried to find a big salt container to post up in reply Rob but haven't found one - yet ... I do take most of what I see on Utoob with a "big pinch of salt" anyway

 

[Woodbloke]

Approaching the last bit now, apart from the glazing. I use a combination of hand and powered sanding (Festool) to work down through the grits with my preferred final paper being the 3M Tri-M-ite Freecut stuff which is by far the best sandpaper I've every come across. This was used exclusively on all pieces made for David Linley and it simply lasts for a very long time and wears out very slowly. The 'cut' is also very aggressive:





The final detail sanding is usually done with a bit of worn 320g stuff folded up into a pad and it will still cut:



As with all my stuff, it's always signed, but I like to include the date when it's made:




I've spent a lot of time and effort over the years trying to find a way to record the date and my initials, but the Peter Child pyrographic machine does the job, end of story...and for that reason alone it was spondulicos very well spent. Having done the pyro work, the back:



...was masked off and a coat of Rubio Monocoat applied to the outside. Once that's fully cured in 48hrs, the inside will have the same treatment. In the meantime the door and shelves will have the sanding regime followed by a coat of Rubio - Rob