• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Wouldn't it be great if ....

We're also in the process of buying a new car. We have exactly the same frustration. We want a car without all sorts of stuff we don't need, but with a gear lever and handbrake. Seems like that's not common these days.
 
Total agreement. Mine even tells my when I have turned on the windscreen wipers. Even those that can be turned off are reset every time the engine is switched on.
Just wait until you get a message suggesting you take a break.
At least I can use voice controls to send a text message to request the drive gates and garage door are opened and tea is ready before I get home :)
 
I rather like gizmos. :unsure:
I certainly wouldn't go back to a gear lever, my automatic is excellent and I can always use the paddles if I wanted to change manually.
 
You would probably get an error message or warning light saying camera/sensor obscured.

At least I can turn off lane assist with just two clicks on the steering wheel.
 
I think this may be different across different manufacturers as the last few cars we’ve had you have a driver profile that the car recognises from the key and immediately sets the car to how you like it.
 
I agree. Some of the so called safety devices are actually dangerous IMO. Ours has automatic collision avoidance braking, which pays no heed to what is behind. Lane assist grabs the steering and avoids imaginary dangers (like a telegraph pole on the verge). These things can be turned off but you have to do that via the touch screen every time the car is started - they can't be permanently turned off in the driver profiles. It has smart wipers - which don't react fast enough when it rains (but occasionally wipe a dry screen) and smart full beam lights which come gradually up to full beam about 3 seconds later than if I were doing it manually. I prefer a fully manual car.
 
The rot started years ago. A mate has a Mercedes estate automatic…probably 10 years or more old. It ‘learns’ his driving style which is fairly sedate. He hates it because when he wants to pull out sharpish into a safe gap in an almost continual traffic stream, the car thinks ‘Mmmm…looks like he wants me to change down but then again perhaps not…I’ll wait and see…ah yes, foot is still on the throttle’……..screen fade to sounds of car horns.
 
Those smart beam headlights are dangerous. We do a lot of driving on country lanes. If I have my lights in auto mode the full beam will stay on until the oncoming car is directly in front probably for at least a second or more. In manual mode, which I always use, I will dip the lights before the oncoming car has even turned the corner.
 
And don’t get me started on the copy of War and Peace in the glovebox. The false promises that you get when, having just bought a ‘new’ old car, you take out your copy and start reading. “Oooh, that looks as if it just might be useful. Now let’s have a go. Damn. Not fitted”. And again. And again. So you stop reading.

And which is why my sister’s car came to be filled with water because unbeknownst to her there was a ‘feature’ whereby if you held the key fob pressed for a bit longer when you locked the car, all four windows will shut or and this is really ‘clever’ of the muppets who designed the car…open them all. Which she didn’t notice as she was already walking away and had her back to the car. Does beg the question why the idiots who designed the car thought it a great idea to open all the windows instead of shutting them. That option is now disabled.
 
Mike G said:
We're also in the process of buying a new car. We have exactly the same frustration. We want a car without all sorts of stuff we don't need, but with a gear lever and handbrake. Seems like that's not common these days.
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We bought a newish car last March. I was really reluctant because of the electronic brake, but it is actually quite a good feature and now like it.
Not sure what would happen if it plays up or the electrics fail however!
What I did demand was a car that needs a key in the ignition.
 
AndyP said:
Those smart beam headlights are dangerous. We do a lot of driving on country lanes. If I have my lights in auto mode the full beam will stay on until the oncoming car is directly in front probably for at least a second or more. In manual mode, which I always use, I will dip the lights before the oncoming car has even turned the corner.
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Having done a night driving course with a police instructor - it is more nuanced than that... they teach that if a car is coming around a bend towards you:
- if they are coming from the right, leave your lights on full beam longer - your headlights should be angled towards the verge (left-hand drive cars) and the beams will not go into the driver's eyes until they are around the corner...
- if they are coming from the left, dip earlier
headlights can be back up when the other car is at 2 o-clock to you, i.e. earlier than you think - before they get to you they will be out of the range of your headlights (again, because they are angled towards the verge)
This maximises the time you drive with more light ahead of you... = safer.
They also teach that you don't dip for pedestrians or in a village - better to let them close their eyes against the headlights, but be able to see further ahead and not run people over... equally you don't dip in a village because people can always close their curtains - you want visibility for safety...
Also, if a car coming towards you with auto lights doesn't dip early enough (annoyingly common), then keep your eyes on the verge - it allows you to drive at speed accurately on the road and keeps you on your side of the road, away from them and avoids your being blinded - like moths we are drawn to light, so it can be challenging, but works well...

fascinating course - but totally in agreement with you, modern auto lights are useless at putting the lights on when you want them, we have one car of three with them and I turn them off auto...
 
I think these things vary by manufacturer. We had a BMW M4 fully loaded until recently and the safety devices on that were actually very good. The smart wipers worked properly, so did the auto headlights - both up and down. The HUD was fantastic - a great safety device as I could drive without ever taking my eyes off the road. The infra red hazard awareness system was superb - it could identify pedestrians or animals in the road that you couldn't otherwise see. The auto braking caught me out once when someone stepped into the road then stepped back again. The car (which has serious brakes) slammed them on - when I would't have as the car could not decipher what I was seeing. The car behind had a real scare. As did I as it was unexpected and an instant stop. It also had a really clever camera system which showed a full overhead view of the car when parking - much better than the Mercedes or Tesla systems I've used.

The car we mainly use now has self park (slower than me) but can reverse into a tight space either in a car park or parallel parking, and you can get it out again using an app if there is not room to open a door as there is a "summon" feature that works surprisingly well. Really though I regard these things as gimmicks. The cruise control is brilliant in traffic jams - as it will watch the speed of the cars around and maintain safe spacing right down to a crawl. The auto lane change system though is not my favourite thing, but that can be turned off by default.

I heard somewhere recently (Radio 4 probably) that car manufacturers are compelled by legislation to fit some of these devices now. It's gone a bit too far.
 
akirk said:
Having done a night driving course with a police instructor - it is more nuanced than that... they teach that if a car is coming around a bend towards you:
- if they are coming from the right, leave your lights on full beam longer - your headlights should be angled towards the verge (left-hand drive cars) and the beams will not go into the driver's eyes until they are around the corner...
- if they are coming from the left, dip earlier
headlights can be back up when the other car is at 2 o-clock to you, i.e. earlier than you think - before they get to you they will be out of the range of your headlights (again, because they are angled towards the verge)
This maximises the time you drive with more light ahead of you... = safer.
They also teach that you don't dip for pedestrians or in a village - better to let them close their eyes against the headlights, but be able to see further ahead and not run people over... equally you don't dip in a village because people can always close their curtains - you want visibility for safety...
Also, if a car coming towards you with auto lights doesn't dip early enough (annoyingly common), then keep your eyes on the verge - it allows you to drive at speed accurately on the road and keeps you on your side of the road, away from them and avoids your being blinded - like moths we are drawn to light, so it can be challenging, but works well...

fascinating course - but totally in agreement with you, modern auto lights are useless at putting the lights on when you want them, we have one car of three with them and I turn them off auto...
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Thank you for posting that. Very, very interesting. Do you have details of the course as I wouldn't mind going on it myself. As an aside when I was learning to drive and just before my test a neighbour (who was a traffic cop) took me out for an hour. I learned more from him in that one hour than I did all the time my father was teaching me.
 
My Merc is now 8+ years old, very high spec and with only 38k on the clock and I'll be keeping it for a while longer. It has all the bells and whistles mentioned in the other posts except HUD which I think should be mandatory on all cars as it's far safer than looking down or across at a speedo or sat nav.
Auto wipers and headlights for me work very well. Headlights are LED matrix smart type and they don't dip but instead block out sections of light if you're following a vehicle or something is coming towards you, they go into dip mode as soon as in a built up area (something to do with speed sign recognition and street lights I think). and also lift into extra high beam when you reach 70mph. In 8 years I've never yet been flashed by oncoming drivers to say my lights are high so I take that as reasonable evidence they aren't.

I do hate lane assist and collision warning and protection but the prximity warnings and 360 deg cameras are excellent. Mine still has switches and buttons not a touch screen which I think is a dangerous, my wife's Mini has that and I hate it.

Memory seats and driver profile settings are great and my car also learns your driving style which I have in individual mode but if I want to accelerate quickly to pass something or get out of a junction I just flick the switch into sport or sport+ mode.

The 9 speed auto box is seamless unless in sport plus and foot to the floor which puts you back in your seat even with a diesel. and the only feature I've never used is the self park because I can't bring myself to trust it though in the early days I did use the key fob to start the car remotely and drive forward out of a tight spot so I could get in it. I wasn't keen on that.

What's not to like? :unsure: ;)
 
RogerS said:
Thank you for posting that. Very, very interesting. Do you have details of the course as I wouldn't mind going on it myself. As an aside when I was learning to drive and just before my test a neighbour (who was a traffic cop) took me out for an hour. I learned more from him in that one hour than I did all the time my father was teaching me.
Click to expand...

It isn't a standalone course per se...
I am a member of a club called HPC or the High Performance Course (performance referring to the driver not car): https://www.high-performance-course.com/
There is a 2.5 day 'course' / 'test' (half day assessment after which you are sent away to tackle certain things / progressed to the course which is over two consecutive days), to get into the club in the first place, and most (but not all) will come out of IAM / RoSPA advanced driving courses in the past...

Once in the club there are a number of standards / 'qualifications' you can take in pursuit of aiming to be a better driver:
- car handling
- night driving
- Silver award
- Gold award

Best training of any type I have ever done... not cheap, but superb and bearing in mind that the entry course is 1:1 for 2.5 days, not really all that expensive... Once offered membership, the annual membership is fairly low so ongoing costs are chosen (coaching / training / holidays / etc.)
 
Lons said:
...except HUD which I think should be mandatory on all cars as it's far safer than looking down or across at a speedo or sat nav....
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I do like HUD - but to give a different view...

A HUD sets the driver's vision through the bottom of the windscreen, a few yards ahead of the car and encourages the vision to stay there - this is really dangerous. By this happening, the driver can only ever be reactive - they will see brake lights come on in front of them and then start to stop etc.

Good driving needs the driver to be aware of what is happening in the distance - so that when traffic on the motorway comes to a stop, the good driver will have spotted it at least half a mile ahead - will have lifted off / moderated speed / opened up space between them and the car in front and checked what is happening behind - in motorway stops, a lot of deaths and injuries are from multiple car pile-ups where drivers react without enough time - they also are unable to manage the traffic behind them and get squashed - looking further ahead lets them manage their own safety and stop the cars behind from hitting them... it is possible on some motorways in the UK to see over 1.5 miles ahead - plenty of time to manage any issues - but if you are fixed on the road ahead by your vision being taken to the HUD, then that is dramatically reduced. Similar techniques needed on country roads (better to spot the deer in the field ahead rather than react to its jumping in front of you), and in town (spot the child now before they run out in front of you).

When driving, your gaze should be constantly changing - from the distant scene (through the top of your windscreen) to the near, the rear-view mirror and both side mirrors - a good analogy would be fly fishing - you cast your sight long and then pull it back in to the near, then back out - and continually repeat... this should mean that in that process there is no issue in including a view of the speedo if needed, and with lateral movement to check side mirrors, it is easy to cover the sat nav if in the middle of the car...

So, yes, I love an HUD, but it is definitely not safer per se...
 
RogerS said:
I'm intrigued about that overhead camera, Adrian...any more information ?
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It works from wide angle cameras inthedoor mirrors, front grill and just above the rear number plate.

The picture is stitched together and shown on the screen. You can tell it’s not an actual overhead camera as it doesn’t show when a seagull has left a gift on the roof 😉🤣
 
I agree Rog, the electronic 'bells n'whistles' are a bloody pain in the arris whichever way you care to slice it. I had a flatty a couple weeks ago and eventually got the car to the garage where I new tyre was put on the rim....but, I drove away with the 'horseshoe' tyre widget illuminated on the dash. Next day I took it back to our local garage, thinking that the motor would have to be put on the 'pooter to get rid of it. The mechanic said 'Nah, you just got to fiddle around with the paddles on the steering column' Even so, it took him a good five mins to flip through the settings until it disappeared - Rob
 
I've a Dacia Logan MCV Laureate (diesel version). Came with various 'extras'... Tells me if I'm in the right gear and if I should change up or down... tells me when it needs a service (because of the milage)... 'auto' skid control - icy patch or such... There's a few others bits such as cruise control and such. The one 'slightly' annoying one I find is for the warning light on tyre pressure. Seems to activate more in cold weather! So it's go round and check each one and inflate as necessary. Would have been helpful if it indicated which tyre.

Had this Logan for nearly 10 years now (September 2016)... it will probably be my last vehicle unless I win on the lottery. So, no EVs for me as they are all out of my price - or any other type of motor - unless I win the lottery.
 
RogerS said:
all new cars came with every bloody gizmo disabled so you can then select only the functions you wanted
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That is because the car OEM's think everyone is stupid and has to be informed of everything because they might just drive with the doors open or forget someone has not fastened their seatbelt. Putting these display screens central on the dashboard to provide information overload is probably one of the best ways to create a distraction and cause an accident. The other annoyance is the stupid arrows that tell you when to change gear, it seems they are making cars fit for the dumbest of the dumb which will just put more danger on the roads. The issue is that once you make a driver feel that the car is in total control and accidents will be prevented they will just sit back and pay attention to nothing, anything happens the car will respond .
 
Blackswanwood said:
It works from wide angle cameras inthedoor mirrors, front grill and just above the rear number plate.

The picture is stitched together and shown on the screen. You can tell it’s not an actual overhead camera as it doesn’t show when a seagull has left a gift on the roof 😉🤣
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Same as mine and extremey useful when parking between painted lines or getting close to a kerb, I'd miss that feature.

If it did show bird deposit on the roof I'd have top stop the car and wash it off immediately. :oops: Come to think of it mine doesn't need that as 3/4 of the roof is glass.
 
Lons said:
Same as mine and extremey useful when parking between painted lines or getting close to a kerb, I'd miss that feature.

If it did show bird deposit on the roof I'd have top stop the car and wash it off immediately. :oops: Come to think of it mine doesn't need that as 3/4 of the roof is glass.
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I must admit I enjoy washing the car … if that ever gets automated I’ll join the “complainers about gadgets” 🤣
 
That advert with the rats in a camper van springs to mind, the driver rat is laying back because the vehicle is in auto cruise mode and he thinks he has to do nothing but they have a very close shave.
 
Blackswanwood said:
It works from wide angle cameras inthedoor mirrors, front grill and just above the rear number plate.

The picture is stitched together and shown on the screen. You can tell it’s not an actual overhead camera as it doesn’t show when a seagull has left a gift on the roof 😉🤣
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I also get a clue from the fact that our "overhead camera" shows a silver coloured car, whereas I happen to know it's black.
 
Blackswanwood said:
I must admit I enjoy washing the car … if that ever gets automated I’ll join the “complainers about gadgets” 🤣
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Me too, only 2 cars to wash now the motorhome and towcar are gone. My wife's Mini gets a quick wash but mine gets the works. I don't tell the kids when I'm going to do it or their cars would end up on the drive as well.
 
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Mazda have quite a few normally-aspirated cars with manual boxes and handbrake, as do Dacia, and, I think, Hyundai - I will be checking them out next time we replace a car.

I am fond of my Toyota Avensis, but it wasn't new although warranted, and the electronic parking brake failed. That was £800 labour. If it should fail again, whilst parked, there is a Bowden cable release under the rear carpet that needs several hundred turns. Using that however, by design, shreds the brake's gearbox, requiring total replacement, probably now north of £1500.
 
Eric the Viking said:
Mazda have quite a few normally-aspirated cars with manual boxes and handbrake, as do Dacia, and, I think, Hyundai - I will be checking them out next time we replace a car.

......
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If you go down the Mazda route and it's a relatively new car with factory-fitted tyres, check that they are not Toyo GP. Or as I call them Toyo GriPless. We sold our Audi Q3 Quattro as it was gettinga bit long in the tooth with things starting to go wrong. Not being Elon Musk, we had to buy a considerably lesser car and ended up with a Mazda CX3 4WD. Four years old and only 4000 miles.

First winter we had to abandon it at the bottom of the hill because those Toyo tyres were rubbish. The Audi would have sailed up that hill. In fact, the Audi was incredibly 'solid' on the road . The Mazda less so. Those Toyo's are so bad that even though there is still a fair bit if tread left, I'm fitting Michelin Cross Climate 3's in a weeks time.
 
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