£65 for 4 seconds

[Robert]

Don't you just love money grabbing local councils.

I followed traffic through a local box junction and the car in front of me stopped to let a bus out. he stopped well short of the bus and left me with my rear wheels just in the box junction... for 3 to 4 seconds. I know this from the video linked in the penalty notice.

I searched google for what is allowed and my mistake was stopping. People have challenged 3 seconds stopped and lost. if I'd kept creeping forwards even a few inches I'd have been OK.

GRRR

 

[Trevanion]

I would still challenge it as it wasn't really your fault that the motorist in front stopped the flow of traffic, and if you didn't cause an obstruction to anyone else it's hardly an issue worth a fine of that calibre.

It's wrong what some councils get away with and they should be challenged on it.

 

[Robert]

It's a gotcha though if you challenge as you lose the half price 'pay now' option - assuming you don't win.

£65 is less than £130 so I paid up. If I hadn't found that case that lost on 3 seconds stopped I might have had a go.

 

[Trevanion]

That is real scumbag ransom tactics, they're basically ensuring that no one challenges it because of the risk of having to pay double if they lose. That should be illegal, it's essentially a form of coercion.

Take your local councillors to task, it isn't fair nor right. Although it's harder for you living in a highly built-up area to make them bother listening to the general public, I think in the greater London area it's roughly on average about 15,000 people per square mile, while here it is 77.

 

[Artiglio]

A local plumber gets ticketed for parking offences several times a year whilst working. He appeals every one of them. The council always rejects his appeal, at which point he says “i want to take it to independent arbitration” the response to which every time (to date) is for the council to cancel the ticket.

 

[sunnybob]

The law is clear; do not enter a box junction until you can exit it.
Bloody annoying getting caught, but no one elses fault.

 

[Chris152]

The law is clear; do not enter a box junction until you can exit it.

Makes perfect sense, but I didn't know that and just assumed if someone stopped arbitrarily, blocking my passage over the box, nobody would blame me but blame the arbitrary stopper instead. I was wrong, don't go til there's space beyond the box!
https://www.motoringresearch.com/advice ... ion-rules/
Helpful vid lower down. Seems to be a real money spinner for councils in London.

 

[AndyP]

Robert,
You might want to take a read of the post by Red Devil in this thread

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1694001

Particularly the quote from the review.

Good luck.

 

[AJB Temple]

I used to be an advanced test examiner (bikes mainly - was a charity thing) and this was a stock question. If I was training people I would always say make sure you can always keep moving unless you are turning right. Probably wise to leave enough room from the car in front so that if they stop you can put your right winky on and turn right. Saves the fine. Don't show a brake light unless your right indicator is on!

It annoys me in central London that buses frequently ignore this (sensible) rule and I imagine don't get fined.

 

[sunnybob]

Back when yellow boxes first arrived (yes, I am that old) even turning right was the same rule, DO NOT enter the box unless you can exit.
That was the whole point of them.
Possibly the right turn has been relaxed over the years.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Not according to Wiki or what I remember.

 

[kirkpoore1]

Wow, I had no clue what you were talking about until I read the link that Chris posted. We have nothing like that over here, despite a lot more cars, even in dense cities.

Kirk

 

[sunnybob]

Kirk,
They were reviled when they were first introduced, but the system does stop junctions becoming gridlocked, as long as everybody understands the system. The problem is that people get used to "edging up" to the car in front to stop anyone else cutting in, and quite often the yellow box markings are unseen by the driver, being so close to the car in front. or, as here, just being hopeful that he can get across :eusa-doh: .

 

[RogerM]

Seems to be a real money spinner for councils in London.

That is the key sentence in this whole thread! Everyone is skint and it's a revenue raiser.

We've noticed many more police speed traps this summer, and anecdotally, the old safety margin of "10% plus 3mph" has been thrown out the window.

Spain has introduced even more draconian measures. In a buit up area, the speed limit on a one-way street is now 20 kph (12.45 mph), on a normal 2 way street it's 30 kph (18.6 mph) and on a dual carriageway in a built up area it's 50 kph (31 mph). There is no margin for error - they will go for you for being 1kph over the limit - even push bikes! It won't save any lives of course as people drive with their eyes glued to the speedo rather than looking out for hazards

 

[Trevanion]

We've noticed many more police speed traps this summer, and anecdotally, the old safety margin of "10% plus 3mph" has been thrown out the window.

That rule depends entirely on your local policing force, it’s 10% across the board but it can be +0, +1, +2, or +3 depending on where you are in the country. Even then, it’s only an allowance to account for inaccurate speedometers, although speedos are much more accurate now. It doesn’t mean you can drive at 36MPH in a 30 zone because it’s 10% +3MPH, and it’s not a hard rule that the police have to follow, just a guideline (So they’re not forced to pull everyone that’s travelling 1MPH over) and it’s their own discretion to pull you over or not.

 

[AJB Temple]

The main bike club I belong to has lots of police as members, including a few SEG. Chief Observer is also police this time. From talking to them as mates, the basic rule is drive/ride like a prat and you can expect to be pulled. Blind eye will be turned a lot of the time.

Cardinal sin for police riders (they all do cars as well amongst the blokes I know) is driving whilst texting. Bikers seriously hate this (along with bust drivers side wing mirror) as such drivers do erratic and unobservant things.

 

[novocaine]

The main bike club I belong to has lots of police as members, including a few SEG. Chief Observer is also police this time. From talking to them as mates, the basic rule is drive/ride like a prat and you can expect to be pulled. Blind eye will be turned a lot of the time.

Cardinal sin for police riders (they all do cars as well amongst the blokes I know) is driving whilst texting. Bikers seriously hate this (along with bust drivers side wing mirror) as such drivers do erratic and unobservant things.

I was taught to ride by an ex bobble head, he also did my advanced rider training and ride along, with 3 other members of the fuzz in tow. all in all, excellent blokes who knew exactly what you would get away with and when. I learned a lot from all of them, including were to buy flip plates, how to spot where police would be and how to pass the attitude test.
I occasionally still see a few of them out and about, as I don't ride much these days (powered anyway) I don't really have to worry, but they know me and will always wave as a cycle along, occasionally with a few choice words at lights about my chosen vehicle. :lol:
also, It used to cost me a fortune if I ran in to one in the pub, as I'd be dragged in to the drinking games. bscene-drinkingbuddies:

 

[RogerM]

We've noticed many more police speed traps this summer, and anecdotally, the old safety margin of "10% plus 3mph" has been thrown out the window.

That rule depends entirely on your local policing force, it’s 10% across the board but it can be +0, +1, +2, or +3 depending on where you are in the country. Even then, it’s only an allowance to account for inaccurate speedometers, although speedos are much more accurate now. It doesn’t mean you can drive at 36MPH in a 30 zone because it’s 10% +3MPH, and it’s not a hard rule that the police have to follow, just a guideline (So they’re not forced to pull everyone that’s travelling 1MPH over) and it’s their own discretion to pull you over or not.

Fair enuffsky, but this was the guideline we were given on a speed awareness course 2 years ago. On that occasion I was "done" for doing 80 mph on a rural dual carriageway on a sunny day and no traffic - limit 70 mph. I had set the cruise control for 75 mph on my car speedo, which gave a reading of 70 mph on my sat nav. I would have accepted I was doing 75 mph, but not 80 mph which seems like a conveniently round figure - not 79 or 81.

 

[Robert]

Would you believe it... they got me again!

No not a box junction this time - a bus stop.

Dropped my wife off near the local opticians on a road with no traffic in either direction at the time. I stopped before the bus stop but with my front wheels in the dashed lines for the stop. I was there for the 7 seconds it took for my wife to get out. No traffic passed in that time.. no buses no cars and the road was wide in any case.

Seems marked in the road bus stops are as good as box junctions. I had the usual google search to see if they can really fine you for such a thing and found a case where a disabled person picked up another disabled person at a bus stop and got fined and still had to pay.

Live and learn

 

[9fingers]

False Plates are the only answer!

Bob

 

[sunnybob]

A layer of cling film across the reg plate confuses the cameras (allegedly :shock
The company I worked for in the UK had a central London engineer, he paid several box junction and bus lane fines every month, and the company did NOT reimburse him. :eusa-naughty:

 

[Doug]

False Plates are the only answer!

Bob

Really I can think of another solution

 

[RogerM]

False Plates are the only answer!

Bob

Really I can think of another solution

Yep, so can I, but firearm offences are treated even more harshly! Bad luck Robert. This is just revenue raising. The public purse is empty and the coffers need filling without the adverse publicity that goes with tax increases - which will come anyway!

 

[HappyHacker]

My daughter got done for parking for 11 minutes in a 10 minute zone. The parking people were coming down the street when she parked. She was parked outside her grandmother's who she was visiting, she came out 11 minutes later and they were already writing out the ticket.

Since my mother died I very very rarely go into the city, perhaps once a year at max, there are plenty of alternatives where parking is free or cheaper and with the same or better shops. If enough people do the same the money grabbing councils will have lots of vacant premises and wonder why. Although thinking about it they already have lots of empty shops and lots of charity shops but are trying to charge more for parking to drive even more people away.