Barn Beam Repair

[duke]

Pondering what to do, an all wood repair or metal c channel?
This is our barn and it has been like this since we purchased.

 

[duke]

Yea I know some of the upper beam work in the above pic doesn't make sense. It is bolted together and seems to work.
Just wanted to show the structure.
Referring to the square scarf joint.

 

[Cabinetman]

My view is that I don’t think there’s a great lot to worry about, I think most of the damage was done before you made the roof watertight, moving the prop so that it’s underneath the joint might give a feeling of security if needed.
Oh crossed with your last posts , do you mean the one above and to the left of the double side doors? I suppose you could put a gallows diagonal from the upright to it’s left. ?

 

[duke]

Sorry, the last pic isn't the issue. Just showing what the structure looks like related to the rot area on the opposite side.
The prop is right over beam work below so it must remain there. Because of this I was thinking metal work.
Or as you said repair rot with timber and install a diagonal brace to support it.
Thank god we don't have listed building issues here or this would be a costly repair.

 

[Mike G]

I presume you've fixed the roof, and water is no longer getting in.

The post with the rotting foot is a prop under a purlin, and the rot in the beam is in a short span. I really can't see the need for steel, because the loads are low, and there is no sign of failure. You could "sister" the beam below the rot, but even that, in my view, would be overkill. I suggest and additional brace, from the ground-to-beam post to underneath the beam at purlin-supporting post. This would support the rotting beam at it's point of weakness.

 

[Mike G]

Referring to the square scarf joint.

I can only see a couple of scarf joints (one each in the purlin and the wall plate). I've never heard of a "square scarf".

 

[duke]

I can only see a couple of scarf joints (one each in the purlin and the wall plate). I've never heard of a "square scarf".

Bad description on my part , yes scarf joint.

 

[duke]

I presume you've fixed the roof, and water is no longer getting in.

The post with the rotting foot is a prop under a purlin, and the rot in the beam is in a short span. I really can't see the need for steel, because the loads are low, and there is no sign of failure. You could "sister" the beam below the rot, but even that, in my view, would be overkill. I suggest and additional brace, from the ground-to-beam post to underneath the beam at purlin-supporting post. This would support the rotting beam at it's point of weakness.

Roof is fixed, repaired 10 years ago. Thanks Mike, I need to take a closer look at the top of the beam to see how much rot I am dealing with.

 

[AJB Temple]

It's quite a bodge up isn't it. If I felt there was any significant risk of the rot getting worse and leading to collapse I would consider adding another prop beneath the beam (finding suitable support below) and bridging between them under the rotten area, M&T'd into each post. Good wash with wood hardener all around the rot. Surprisingly effective stuff for stopping this kind of rot in its tracks.

There is only so much it is worth doing with these rudimentary pole barns.

What do you intend to use it for?

 

[duke]

It's quite a bodge up isn't it. If I felt there was any significant risk of the rot getting worse and leading to collapse I would consider adding another prop beneath the beam (finding suitable support below) and bridging between them under the rotten area, M&T'd into each post. Good wash with wood hardener all around the rot. Surprisingly effective stuff for stopping this kind of rot in its tracks.

There is only so much it is worth doing with these rudimentary pole barns.

What do you intend to use it for?

The ground level portion is for material storage, the loft (mow) area in question not much use right now. Below is an insulated stable area for our goats and hens.
This weekend I will clean up around the rot area.

 

[duke]

This is the last repair to do. The repairs to date has given it another 60 plus years of life.

 

[toolsntat]

I can only see a couple of scarf joints (one each in the purlin and the wall plate). I've never heard of a "square scarf".

Interesting to look at the terminology here, as, in my way of looking at it, a scarf is a cut completely through at an angle to the timber surfaces.
This is what you would have ended up with if I had done it without the enlightenment of this dialogue.
So maybe in this situation a "square scarf" isn't that far from an appropriate description?
Cheers, Andy

 

[Mike G]

A scarf joint in British English is a joint for lengthening a piece of wood. In other words, its job is to join two pieces of wood together end-to-end. There are any number of variations, but "square scarf" isn't one I've come across. I guess if the joint in question is a butt-jointed scarf the meeting ends would be square........but to fair I am not even sure which joint in the photos we are talking about.

 

[spb]

There are two examples of it in the horizontal members in the right-hand half of the last photo. If I had to describe it I'd probably call it a half-lapped scarf.

 

[Mike G]

Yes, they're the ones I described. Face-halved scarfs in the purlin and wall plate. I have no idea which joint we're talking about, though, described as a "square scarf".

 

[Artiglio]

I can only see a couple of scarf joints (one each in the purlin and the wall plate). I've never heard of a "square scarf".

Would that joint not be better descriped as a Lap joint? It has none of the advantages that a proper scarf joint gives.

 

[Mike G]

It's both. Any and every end-to-end joint is a scarf. You can then catagorise what sort of scarf it is with a description, and "lap" or "half lap" is a perfectly fair description.

 

[Artiglio]

It's both. Any and every end-to-end joint is a scarf. You can then catagorise what sort of scarf it is with a description, and "lap" or "half lap" is a perfectly fair description.

Ok, that makes sense , thanks