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Bread Baking

G

Gill

Nordic Pine
Joined
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Location
East Lindsey
Hi all. Yes, I’m still around :).

I bake my bread in a tin in a halogen oven. It gives me a beautiful rise but when I take it out of the tin, it's soft and tends to squish down under its own weight. I know quite a few people here bake bread too so I was wondering if you have any tips to avoid this. I have thought that perhaps preheating the oven with something like an old circular saw blade on the bottom might help the bread bake from below. I'm loathe to go to the expense of firing up my gas oven just to bake a loaf of bread, and I really don’t bake much else.

Thoughts?
 
Gill! Hello!
I've never used a halogen oven, but I have been baking bread for nearly half a century.
In the Uk I had a recipe I had developed over many years and was foolproof - until I moved house. Everything was the same - same flour, same yeast, same recipe. Different water. I was baking bricks again.
Now I live in France and all the flour is different. It's taken me nearly 3 years to get something I actually want to eat. but still not back to where I was. It is simply the fact that the flour is different. Even that which is sold as bread flour (T65) doesn't have the same gluten content that I wsa used to. But I found that I can buy a bag of powdered gluten, one teaspoon per loaf, and that improves things immensely.

Have you tried the same recipe in both ovens? Have you tried baking it for longer? Or at a higher temperature?
Bread making can be a dark art...
S
 
How about placing a baking stone in the oven to heat up to temp, whether you're sliding in a bloomer style (no tin) or a style with a tin, so that there is heat underneath, too.
 
As you say, Steve, longer cooking times might be the answer. That’s a good idea. I’ll do some experimenting as you suggest.

Sadly, Malcolm, my halogen is too small to take a baking stone.
 
I don't blame the oven. When a loaf of mine collapses it is because the dough was too soft, or I didn't cook it hot enough. As with all things bread-making, making a change has consequences. A firmer dough won't rise quite so much. A hotter oven can lead to dry bread (even if you have steam).
 
Gill said:
As you say, Steve, longer cooking times might be the answer. That’s a good idea. I’ll do some experimenting as you suggest.

Sadly, Malcolm, my halogen is too small to take a baking stone.
Click to expand...
That's a shame. My oven is only 300mm wide, so I got a one of these. I think they even do 7"/180mm.
 
When you say it collapses are you meaning after it is baked? if so I would say that its simply not sufficiently baked?
If it collapses before it goes in the oven then that is usually a result of over proving although this can still cause collapse during baking.
I've been baking wholemeal recently without any fat (fats main purpose in bread is to make it keep) I think its better.
I used to work in a family run Bakery where obviously quantities were much larger and temps more consistent but I concluded that machine mixing allowed for a wetter dough in the early stages which developed during the mix. I have tried to replicate this at home with a dough hook starting with quite a wet dough, this has been pretty successful.
Anyway.... maybe try a more developed dough and experiment with proving times?
 
I bake in loaf tins quite regularly. A tip I picked up and works for me is never wash a loaf tin after use - scrape any adhered bits out if there are any and next use nothing sticks. The other thing I do is tip the loaf out of the tin 5 minutes before the end and put in the oven upside down to finish off.
 
That's a shame. My oven is only 300mm wide, so I got a one of these. I think they even do 7"/180mm.

That, Malcolm, seems to be just the ticket :) . The 7” jobbie will fit nicely.

Thank you, everyone, for all your suggestions and advice. They are very much appreciated.
 
Steve Maskery said:
Gill! Hello!
I've never used a halogen oven, but I have been baking bread for nearly half a century.
In the Uk I had a recipe I had developed over many years and was foolproof - until I moved house. Everything was the same - same flour, same yeast, same recipe. Different water. I was baking bricks again.
Now I live in France and all the flour is different. It's taken me nearly 3 years to get something I actually want to eat. but still not back to where I was. It is simply the fact that the flour is different. Even that which is sold as bread flour (T65) doesn't have the same gluten content that I wsa used to. But I found that I can buy a bag of powdered gluten, one teaspoon per loaf, and that improves things immensely.

Have you tried the same recipe in both ovens? Have you tried baking it for longer? Or at a higher temperature?
Bread making can be a dark art...
S
Click to expand...
Spill the beans then?!
 
Robert said:
I bake in loaf tins quite regularly. A tip I picked up and works for me is never wash a loaf tin after use - scrape any adhered bits out if there are any and next use nothing sticks. The other thing I do is tip the loaf out of the tin 5 minutes before the end and put in the oven upside down to finish off.
Click to expand...
I've had a couple for 15, 16 years. My wife put them in the dishwasher once. Once.
You can give them a long soak and scrub crud out of the corners but don't use washing up liquid unless absolutely necessary, or else keep one for sweet cakes etc. that's not used for bread. Don't even think of putting them in a dishwasher.
 
1. Welcome Gill! :)

2. There is a smell in the house this morning of freshly baked bread :cool:
Wife bakes every 2 weeks 3 loaves.
White bread flour, water, some sugar and some dried yeast. NO salt.
Gets mixed in very large Tupper bowl, gets folded not kneaded.
Into fridge for the night. Some more, folding, split into 3 tins and then in oven for ?? to prove.
Bake, remove, cover with dish cloths to start cooling down. Then out of tins and wrapped in dish cloths to continue cooling.
When sliced it is full of small 'holes'. If lucky I will get some for lunch. Gets packed, sliced, into a plastic bags then into freezer.

3. Smear some butter on (saltless) then a layer of cheddar.
:cool::cool:

I don't think the tins get washed.
 
A quick update on my bread baking progress. My halogen oven broke so I’ve been using a replacement that was gifted to me. This one can be heated to 245C which is hotter than its predecessor. Unfortunately, the heating element is a little close to the bread so I do get a little scorching on top but it’s so minor that I can live with it. I’ve increased the baking time too and now I get a loaf that I’m happy with.

IMG_0592.jpeg

I’ve even decided to venture into the world of sourdough! My starter is only 3 days old but it’s looking promising 😀.

IMG_0590.jpeg

Thanks, everyone, for sharing your collective wisdom. 👌🏻👍😀
 
That looks good, Gill. I've not baked bread for a couple of months, but after a recent trip to Blighty, I have a loaf on the go as we speak. Allison's flour.
I'm looking forward to the bake.
S
 
Good luck with yours, Steve, although I doubt luck will play a significant role. You really know how to bake bread and so do many others here, which is why I came here for advice.

Hi Mike. 👏🏻💕 I keep meaning to find time for a bit of scroll sawing but somehow I never quite make it. It doesn’t help that His Lordship enjoys his retirement by finding things for us to do together. That’s not as romantic as it might sound because he is in the early stages of dementia and I really need to keep an eye on him. Thank goodness he got an early diagnosis and he’s on medication which is slowing his decline markedly.
 
I've not long tried yet another commercial sourdough starter - two weeks and not a pinhead of a bubble. I tried a starter as decribed by Andrew Whitely .............. not a bubble. I tried a starter as described by Appolonia Poilâne ............. not a bubble. I must have tried over the years fifty times, I've used commercial starters, I've been given starters, I've tried starters from various books. Nothing.
 
Mine is a simple mix of 100ml water and 100g flour. It’s from James Morton’s ‘Brilliant Bread’. He suggests chucking in a few chopped raisins to really get it going and it seems to have worked. No doubt my first few bakes will have traces of raisins but eventually they’ll disappear. Apparently chopped apples can help too, although he reckons nothing beats raisins.
 
Phil Pascoe said:
I've not long tried yet another commercial sourdough starter - two weeks and not a pinhead of a bubble. I tried a starter as decribed by Andrew Whitely .............. not a bubble. I tried a starter as described by Appolonia Poilâne ............. not a bubble. I must have tried over the years fifty times, I've used commercial starters, I've been given starters, I've tried starters from various books. Nothing.
Click to expand...
I've pretty much always been able to get a starter going with just flour and water. My problem with sourdough is always a total lack of oven spring. Everything looks good, I put the loaf into the oven and take out a a brick or a discus, depending on the intended shape.
 
The good wife has recently started making a sourdough culture. (flour & water)
Went slow at first, then the stuff just grew and blossomed. :)

Baked a couple of loaves in pans, looks good and holey, nice taste.
Then a big treat - made up sourdough pizzas! Baked in the oven on the pizza stone.
A very different and better taste to a pizza.
 
Well done, Phil. I haven’t done any baking over the Christmas period because my time has been taken up with fermenting all the cheap supermarket veggies sold just before Christmas. So long as they’re kept somewhere cool, dark and dry they’ll last for ages. I keep mine in the car boot! There’s hardly a gap on my kitchen work surface because of all the red cabbage and I still have to find space for half a car boot load of carrots and swedes. I was astonished by how tasty swedes are when I first fermented them.
 
Gill said:
Well done, Phil. I haven’t done any baking over the Christmas period because my time has been taken up with fermenting all the cheap supermarket veggies sold just before Christmas. So long as they’re kept somewhere cool, dark and dry they’ll last for ages. I keep mine in the car boot! There’s hardly a gap on my kitchen work surface because of all the red cabbage and I still have to find space for half a car boot load of carrots and swedes. I was astonished by how tasty swedes are when I first fermented them.
Click to expand...

Healthy eating Gill.
I used to make sauerkraut and kimchi, also very healthy.
But had to stop, too much salt for kidneys.
 
I saw a YouTube video which said that if you retain the water used for cooking rice, potatoes or other starchy foods and use it to make your bread, you’ll get a much better result. Last night I pressure-cooked some brown rice and today I used the cooking water to make my bread. I got the best rise I’ve ever had :) .
 
Gill said:
I saw a YouTube video which said that if you retain the water used for cooking rice, potatoes or other starchy foods and use it to make your bread, you’ll get a much better result. Last night I pressure-cooked some brown rice and today I used the cooking water to make my bread. I got the best rise I’ve ever had :) .
Click to expand...
I make yoghurt, and then sieve it to get Greek yoghurt. The resulting whey is an excellent additive for bread-making.
 
Mike G said:
I make yoghurt, and then sieve it to get Greek yoghurt. The resulting whey is an excellent additive for bread-making.
Click to expand...
I do that too. The result is superb, isn’t it? However, I don’t make that much yoghurt so I rarely get to use it for bread.

Have you ever made battered fish using whey instead of water? You won’t be disappointed.
 
Wife looks to have this sourdough bread 'under her thumb'.

This is the last loaf baked this week, tastes very good, allowed to have 2 slices. I still prefer my brown bread.

SourDough_Loaf.jpg

She is also creative.
The residue in the large main bottle is scraped out and spread onto a baking sheet.
Sprinkled with some cheddar and then parmesan on top of it all.
Baked in the oven till looks cooked.
Cut into blocks and back into the oven to dry out like rusks.
They taste really good :cool:

SourDoughBiscuits.jpg

The large bottle is sterilised and the new starter added from the small 'breeding' bottles.
 
Phil, I presume your sourdough is made with white flour?

I don't do sourdough because I want a wholemeal loaf. I use a combination of stoneground wholemeal flour (from a local water mill in 20kg bags), stoneground rye flour, very strong white flour, oats, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, and chia seeds, (plus whey, salt, dried yeast, and EV olive oil).
 
Mike, yes, the process is all white flour.
She also adds other 'stuff' to it, not sure what.
She also bakes Date or fruit loaves, last one was with Almond flour.
It is healthy for her gut. I still prefer my brown bread, but the she does buy me Panini bread rolls from the grocer bakery (that's my lunch, they are large and taste lekker :cool:)
 
The left overs look mouth watering Phil.
My wife used to make her own bread but she has admitted that the store bought sourdough bread is just as good.
We only eat a certain brand of sourdough and Swedish light rye bread as both don't have preservatives added.
 
I've yet to try any healthy bread, as I see spelt mentioned,
but would find it interesting if some are making some from the original delicate/less profitable grains,
since your going to the trouble of baking.
Not that I've any inclination to try any time soon, for good reason.
(Getting close to being on my feet again, thanks to Barbara O'Neill.)

p.s watch (and get the jist of an understanding of it) with her whole series, if you truly value your health,
as most grains are a lot worse than most folks might think.
Good news being, that the effects of the western diet are reversible!

All the best
Tom
 
Ready for the Oven, Boss has been busy again this morning.

20260302.jpg
 
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