Ebony or African Blackwood

[Artiglio]

Good day all

My mum is going to be downsizing in the near future and i’m starting to sort out my late fathers workshop and wood store, they made their living from turning in the 80’s to mid 90’s and he like playing with different hardwoods.
There are 3 lengths of round sections of trunk, which i thought were african blackwood (as i have a lamp he’d made but chucked in the bin as it had split) but mum is convinced that the longest is ebony, as she remembered going to the suppliers in the 80’s and winced at the cost ( rightly so as it never got used).
Are there any features i need to look for to determine if they are different timbers, to me they are all very dark and dense timber.
Many thanks

 

[Woodbloke]

Good day all

My mum is going to be downsizing in the near future and i’m starting to sort out my late fathers workshop and wood store, they made their living from turning in the 80’s to mid 90’s and he like playing with different hardwoods.
There are 3 lengths of round sections of trunk, which i thought were african blackwood (as i have a lamp he’d made but chucked in the bin as it had split) but mum is convinced that the longest is ebony, as she remembered going to the suppliers in the 80’s and winced at the cost ( rightly so as it never got used).
Are there any features i need to look for to determine if they are different timbers, to me they are all very dark and dense timber.
Many thanks

The bits of Ebony that I generally acquire from Yandles are Indian (I think) and have some quite interesting grain, but ABW is pure, jet black and much heavier than ebony. When you pick up chunk it also feels 'cold' rather like handling a bit of mild steel. If it appears to have some grain fluctuations I'd hazard a guess and say it's ebony; if its really, really heavy and pure black it's ABW - Rob

 

[Phil Pascoe]

The sapwood of African blackwood is creamy yellow. The only ebony I've seen is pure black with no noticeable grain, other than Macassar ebony.

 

[TomTrees]

I would have thought gaboon ebony was heavier than ABW
but there must be some variance.
The only ebony I have are from Piano keys, and are pretty heavy.
Have handled some ABW, have a lovely piece at home with some sap,
seems quite light weight, while I've also handled an Irish flute which was extremely light also.

Not took a plane to the ABW, seems to have a bit of a silverish glare to it, while the ebony is much darker and doesn't change colour.

 

[Woodbloke]

I would have thought gaboon ebony was heavier than ABW
but there must be some variance.
The only ebony I have are from Piano keys, and are pretty heavy.
Have handled some ABW, have a lovely piece at home with some sap,
seems quite light weight, while I've also handled an Irish flute which was extremely light also.

According to The Wood Database, Gaboon Ebony is 60lbs/cu' and ABW is 79lbs/cu' which is very nearly a third heavier. I've got some Bog Oak which is about 60lbs/cu' and that's pretty dense :shock: It's relatively easy IMO to tell the difference between the species of ebony (and there are a few) and ABW simply because of the weight - Rob

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Have handled some ABW, have a lovely piece at home with some sap,
seems quite light weight...

We are speaking of African blackwood and not American black walnut, aren't we? Blackwood certainly isn't light.

 

[Artiglio]

Cheers Gents

The round in question is most definetly very heavy, must be around 30kg, without going to measure it i’d guess it’s 250mm in diameter and 700mm long. So i’m leaning toward it being african blackwood. Given there are three left and one is a lamp , knowing my old man i would guess he had plans of making two pairs of lamps. Also knowing him , he’d have lost interest when the first split and set the project aside. I rescued the reject with some aluminium resin infill, but after 10 years indoors the timber still shrank a bit and effectively squeezed it out a bit, so another job on the list.

 

[TomTrees]

Just for fun I took some photos and used my scales for the first time.
Grit and mess everywhere at the moment, so you will have to make do with a dull finish, as my iron and cap needs a lick.
Clearly the plane cap iron needs more influence to make it nice and glossy/reflective, a bit cold yet for a pansy like myself.

Since I'd the scales out, I thought I'd compare some iroko.
Wow a big difference between samples, not even trying to find dense stuff, nor lighter examples,
some middle of the road stuff, twice the weight of others,
so I guess I could find some pieces five times the weight of other similarly sized sticks if I was eager.

From what I recall on the wood database, and some other sources, extremely vague figures and descriptions.
I'd bet Trevanion has even more variance that what I have, with some of the mineral or silica deposits that he has shown in the past.
Been meaning to get back to that, but found nothing comparable to do any sort of testing with,
whether it instantly dulled the plane iron or not kinda thing.
Only piece I've found since was an offcut which is fixed to the wall, and can't find the rest of the stick.

Sorry for going off topic, and getting back to the ebony or African blackwood.
Worth noting that if it is either, or if it's pure black ebony, then worth looking at what guitar sets fetch, (back and side sets)
Madinter is likely one of, if not the best value if wanting to get ones hands on extremely tropical timbers.

Bob Taylor (very large guitar manufacturer) has a few videos on the matter.
It might give an idea of the value of this stuff nowadays, as a lot of ebony they use has white timber included, as in.... it's not chopped and left there if there's any white through the timber
anymore.
Think Bob and Madinter of Spain are in cahoots and have bought near all of the rights to the stuff.
Well something along the lines of that, if this and other videos are to be believed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCGvfsBoFY

Hope that helps somewhat.
Not kept up with all that, nor the CITES laws...
Say in the last two or three years, as it gets re-evaluated on a yearly basis from what I've read.

Love to see some piccies, bet George Lowden would bite your hand off for it!
Might be worth seeking some other UK luthiers for the best price also.

All the best

Ps interesting to note that the lighting makes a difference, looks like what I described earlier when outside, silver or gray hints, (to my eyes)
but notes of browns whilst inside.

Tom

 

[Artiglio]

Hopefully pics will appear, weighs in at 33kg and 250x590 mm ish so comes out at 1150 ish kg/m3. Which would seem to confirm the african blackwood as does the creamy sap wood. Thanks all.