• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Garden Store

9fingers

9fingers

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Romsey Hampshire between Southampton and the New F
SWMBO/LOML rarely misses an opportunity to mention that my current collection of heavy garden/building equipment is not best placed in the middle of a paved area intended for her swing seat.



Typical content
4 builders trestles, concrete mixer, garden compost grader/ soil sifter and a couple of wheel barrows (yes I know we don't really need two. I used to have just one but a brickie left one behind after a job and despite phone calls, never collected it.

The plan is to lay a few slabs over next to the fence and pop a roof on top of four posts to make a covered store. I may or may not add doors depending on degree of enthusiasm etc later.

Here is the site, roughly levelled and with metpost spike driven in to support the posts. Note that at this stage the post are only loosely fitted and will be a bit straighter and plumb later.



The two short ends will be feather boarded to match the fence I put up a few year back. I needed some short arris rails and as they would be on view, I decided to mortise them into the posts.

I used the dado head in the table saw to form rectangular tenons onto the ends of the triangular arris rail pieces.

Firstly a jig to hold the rail. simply an offcut of 4 x2 with a 90 degree vee cut in on the table saw and waxed to slide nicely on the table.



The full dado set is in the back ground at about 24mm width. Tenons will be 60mm long so three passes will munch out the waste.

With the jig on the table the back of the arris is trimmed away.



Flip the jig through 90 degrees and run it against the mitre gauge for the next cut.



Finally the third cut with the broad flat face of the arris against the mitre gauge - not photographed, complete the rectangular tenon.



A little geometry and some schoolboy calculus showed that for a rail of width W, the maximum cross sectional area of the tenon is formed by cutting off 1/4W off each dimension to leave a tenon of 1/2W x 1/4W

This is left for the reader as an exercise to refresh their mathematics! :text-lol:

Traditionally, the tenon shoulders are cut away in a curve. I expect in days of yore, the apprentice was given the job of whittling these but I used the bandsaw.

The same jig came in handy again to hold the ends square whilst concentrating on a estimated curve to end about 2" back from the parallel portion of the tenon.





end result



Here are the completed arris rails having had a dose of tanalising jollop on the cut surfaces.




To Be Continued

Bob
 
Very neat Bob. I like the attention to detail. You say the two short sides will be feather boarded to match fence, is the back so close to the fence that you are ot going to board it?

Terry.
 
I doubt so much can and attention has ever been lavished on a simple garden store before. I am sure it will stand the test of time.
 
@Terry yes spot on, the roof will over hang the posts slightly and drain into a gutter will run along the centre line of the fence. There is a possibility that a little rain could blow in the gap between the underside of the gutter and the top of the fence but considering everything is currently exposed to the elements, I think this is acceptable.

@Mark. The two ends are simple post and rail panels only about 700 mm wide to the arris rails will be notionally top middle and bottom on the end nearest the camera but at the far end abuts the brick compost bins, the rails only need to be top and middle. Fortunate really as I only had enough left over from the main fence for 5 rails and saved buying another 3.9m length.

@ Andy. I'm looking at my projects outlasting me now. The last thing I want is for it to be failing at the same time as I will be and not being able to fix it due to infirmity. It is very rare that I GALMI now and I don't plan to start any time soon. I'm also extremely fortunate to have a good pension and so can afford to feed my over-engineered approach!

The roof will be an experiment for me in using EPDM rubber in readiness to possible specify it on our 5 flat house roof areas when the time comes for that to be replaced.

Today I'll make a start on the mortising in between two hospital outpatient visits for SWMBO. Should fit in with the weather as we are due for a band of rain but dry for assembly tomorrow finger crossed ( all 10 that is!)

Bob
 
I must admit I am struggling to visualise how it is going to look but will enjoy the journey!

I'm also extremely fortunate to have a good pension and so can afford to feed my over-engineered approach!
Click to expand...

Lucky man. I thought I was lucky enough to be in a good pension scheme too but they just announced today that it is no longer going to be final salary but contribution only. :cry:

H.
 
I started drawing my pension 6 years ago (come next month) but even then I'd had about 5 years out of 33 paying into a money purchase scheme rather than final salary.
About 95% of what I get derives from the final salary component so you can see how poor value the money purchase element is by comparison. Mr Brown really killed pensions by withdrawing the tax relief on the scheme investments.
Each half- generation is worse off under pension changes. Some of my older colleagues in their 80s are doing very nicely under SERPS scheme which by the time I got to it was not worth going into.
My son working in IT and other agency work on zero hours basis would have no pension if I had not taken one out for him. I really despair for the retirement prospects of our young people today let alone their prospects of leaving home and owning property.

oops I'll get off my hobby horse and get down to the workshop and markup for mortices!

Bob
 
Well I have another 30 years of paying for other folks nice pensions (I have 4 uncles and aunts who are in the same scheme as me and enjoying nice index linked final salary pensions that I am paying for :eusa-violin: )

Enjoy chopping!
 
A good afternoon chopping. After careful marking out double checking for front to back and left to right handedness it was time to fire up the mortiser.

Here is the result, the longer slots are for gravel boards and the other for the arris rails.




Just a very quick offer up of some parts as it is still raining here so you can start to see how it goes together.
The gravel board is not meant to be at a jaunty angle - it will be straight eventually - honest!



Now time for a cuppa!

Bob
 
A much better day today. Nice to work in the sun but spoilt this photo a bit



The two end panels assembled with gravel boards and arris rails and inserted into the met post sockets.

I should have moved the ladder out of the way but this photo shows the roof timbers in place. The structure is starting to take shape and becoming more rigid. I might fit some corner braces - just depends if tightening up the metpost sockets proves to be enough or not.



I need to fit the gutter along the fence line next as it will be a lot easier before the roof deck goes on so tomorrow it is off to screwfix who sell single lengths of guttering but only offer fittings in 10s and Toolstation for all the fittings as the offer them as singles but only guttering in 18m packs :!:

Bob
 
9fingers":24xb0yaa said:
Toolstation for all the fittings as the offer them as singles but only guttering in 18m packs :!:

Bob
Click to expand...

Toolstation do sell single lengths of a lot of things listed as packs only online and in the catalogues. they have in store only lists of singles prices next to the plastic coated catalogues. no idea if guttering is on the list though.
 
Looks extremely solid Bob, you obviously have more luck and / or skill with metposts than I ever have. I think you mentioned the base will be slabs, so I wondered have you spaced the post so precise numbers of whole slabs will fit betwen them?

Terry.
 
The length of the store is set to match the edge of some existing paving as well as a future project, a fruit cage so an integral number of slabs won't fit into the space add to that the garden is very slightly tapered and I wanted the rear roof edge to follow the fence line so the gutter lined up with the fence.
The taper is about 25 mm per metre so the slabs will involve cutting and notching round the posts. Out with the angle grinder and diamond blade when the time comes. I've only bought cheap thin slabs so it will be a case of bedding very carefully on a continuous sand cement bed.

The metposts generally behaved themselves. I used an offcut of post as a dolly and attached a 3 foot pipe clamp to the dolly as a lever. Having marked out quite precisely where I wanted the centres, I gave a few gentle taps to start it off, check with a spirit level and when there was any tendency to twist, corrected it by having the end of the lever between my legs. This worked pretty well apart from on which was determined to twist so in the end I concentrated on getting it vertical and dealt with the twist by chamfering the post and cutting compensating fillets to ensure the metpost socket was still full. The twist was about 13 degrees.

I'll add a photo in a bit.

There won't be much progress today as I have materials to buy, some stuff to do for SWMBO and lunch out with ex work colleagues - one of the pressures of retirement! :lol:

Bob
 
9fingers":3nmv78vf said:
The metposts generally behaved themselves. I used an offcut of post as a dolly and attached a 3 foot pipe clamp to the dolly as a lever. Having marked out quite precisely where I wanted the centres, I gave a few gentle taps to start it off, check with a spirit level and when there was any tendency to twist, corrected it by having the end of the lever between my legs. This worked pretty well apart from on which was determined to twist so in the end I concentrated on getting it vertical and dealt with the twist by chamfering the post and cutting compensating fillets to ensure the metpost socket was still full. The twist was about 13 degrees.
Click to expand...

Yes, twisting was one of the big problems for me Bob, though I didn't have the foresight to do anything similar to your pipe clamp 'twist resistance' mechanism. Mine also seemed to move laterally a small amount, which meant when I cam to fit fence panels there was a bit of a gap on couple. Absolutely sure user incompetence was a big part of my problem, but I must admit I would not be rushing back to use them again as I have had a lot more success recently with spade and postcrete.

Terry.
 
Rather sporadic progress due to weather, domestic duties etc but now there is something to show.

The boarding is all complete now and features in most of the following photos

The gutter is fitted.



The drip edge has been chamfered on all four faces but this is secondary to a similar feature that will be on the battens that secure the EPDM roofing. I was easy to run the boards through the table saw whilst I was ripping to size.

At the right hand end, I needed to nibble a bit out of the fence to allow the offset bends to fit and the down pipe will just discharge onto the soil. The area is only 2.5 sqm so won't collect huge quantities of surface water.



The overall view shows the lack of floor slabs still to be cut and fitted. The sun is not helping in this photo



The next stage is the roof. The decking is all cut (11mm OSB) but I'm keeping it dry until I'm ready to complete the roof.



Now I have the final dimensions, I can order an EPDM shed roof kit and wait for a dead cert fine weather day to fit it.

I've got some other pressing jobs waiting. My woodwork shop is also my welding shop but for safeties sake, I need to clear up all the sawdust before starting to weld. Silly thing is the job will take no more than a few minutes after I've laid a couple of practice beads down but a couple of hours clearing up to prepare.
Then there is the washing machine to investigate and find out why it is not taking up the fabric conditioner.
I suspect a stuck or failed solenoid valve.

Bob
 
9fingers":3ma3clv5 said:
and wait for a dead cert fine weather day to fit it.
Click to expand...

Well good luck with that Bob! Forecast on BBC for my area this morning, wet this morning ut dry all afternoon, cool but above freezing tonight and total washout tomorrow. So got myself already, just could not hold off roof any longer.

What happened? I ended up doing the contact adhesive on the edges in a hail storm. A second very heavy hail storm covered the roof in ice only an hour after it was put on. Forecast now shows -1 tonight and tomorrow dry until mod afternoon. God knows what the combined impact on my roof will be.

I really hate weather forecasters and wish them ill. There is no other profession who can get it wrong so consistently and keep their jobs. The thing that really gets me is the reinventing of history, not once in my life have I ever heard one say "sorry, our forecast yesterday was completely wrong". Mind you, if they said that once they would have to say it every night. :evil:

Rant over (for now). Garden store looking good, but doesn't the neighbour mind the gutter hanging over the fence, which I presume it must if you had to cut the fence for the elbow to fit?

Terry.
 
The one I use is Raintoday.co.uk, just about covers northern France and is great for seeing what's coming.
 
Terry, My neighbour is very relaxed about such things. Anyway we have an almost reciprocal situation with his carport having a cut out for the gutter pipe in the same fence further along.

Can you tell me where you got your EPDM roofing stuff from please? I sent an enquiry to one online supplier and never heard back and another one has a normal looking website front page but the links lead to pages of adverts rather than the online shop.

TIA

Bob
 
I use Home & Dry which shows a Radar prediction of 2 hrs ahead plus what's gone on before.

The BBC weather app says it's going to rain here at 13:00hrs so will check later with that and the Radar?

Rod
 
Just started to rain at 12:45 so not too bad.
Radar showed rain clouds over at 12:30 with heavier rain 5mm at 13:45
 
9fingers":38o72z1v said:
Can you tell me where you got your EPDM roofing stuff from please? I sent an enquiry to one online supplier and never heard back and another one has a normal looking website front page but the links lead to pages of adverts rather than the online shop.
Click to expand...

Bob

I used diy-epdm.co.uk. Their prices were very keen, they cut to a close size so little waste and they delivered the following day. Can't ask for much more really.

Not sure if it was down to poor technique by me, or the manufacturers persuading me to buy a ginger size, but I found I used nowhere near as much adhesive as the quoted coverage would suggest (both for the water based and the contact adhesive). Not an issue with diy-epdm.co.uk as the quoted coverage is the same for everyone selling Firestone adhesives.

Terry.
 
I finally had everything ready to do the EPDM roof a week or so back but needed some good weather.

Thanks again to Terry who kindly let me have the left over adhesives from his workshop build.

Water based for the main flat surface and solvent based rubber solution for the vertical surfaces (edges).

The job is all complete now



and the edges clad with some spare feather edge boards to blend in with the adjacent timber.



I might make some doors eventually but at the moment the fruit cage needs to be completed first.

Bob
 
Very nice job Bob. Glad to see the surplus going to such good use, only thing is it looks like you have done a much better job of your roof than I did on mine :cry: :lol:

Looks very good overall.

Terry.

P.S. magnolia looks very nice, ours is almost pure white and flowers particularly really so is well past it's best now.
 
Nice job, Bob, as usual. I missed the initial posts on this. Do the metal sockets hold the feet entirely clear of the soil? I'd be concerned about wicking and then rotting at the bottom, especially with the amount of rain you guys get.

Oh, and on your dado blade:
Garden%20store%20003_zpseyzyycyq.jpg~original

I can't believe I'm the one saying it, but I'd suggest a zero clearance insert. I think it Would Be Bad if the workpiece got a little loose vertically and started tilting into the hole with that dado stack on it.

Getting the equipment under cover must have got you big points with Mrs 9Fingers. And, as always, proper storage is necessary because "Rusty Tools Make Baby Jesus Cry", as a few of my friends say.:)

Kirk
 
Kirk,

You are quite correct about the dado insert. I normally use one but in this case because of the jig needed to hold the arris rail at the right angle, the dado head needed to raised quite high out of the table which would have cut such a large hole in the insert, it would have been more or less useless for more normal jobs.
Also the workpiece was about 30" long, I could hold it very firmly with hands and my body well out of the way so I took the risk.

The "metpost" sockets stop level with some paving slabs laid as a floor for the store so all timber is above "high tide" I have the same scheme for the fruit cage frame to keep the posts away from the soil.

Mrs 9fingers is indeed pleased to have my "junk :o " tidied up. Lots of brownie points at the moment as I've also built her fruit cage in the same area. Overall the two projects will define and tidy the bottom 10 metres of the garden.

Cheers

Bob
 
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