Hydraulic Brakes, bicycles

[AndyP]

Do any of the cyclists around here have hydraulic brakes on their bikes?
Are they as efficient and easy to service as the advertised blurb suggests?

I’m looking it a very lightweight, low step through bike for my daughter. The most suitable yet found is this…
https://www.islabikes.co.uk/products/li ... adult-bike
Weighs in at just 11.5kgs. The step through design is critical.
It comes with Tektro hydraulic brakes as standard. I believe Tektro and Shimano are the industry leaders but I have no experience of them and it looks unlikely that we can try before we buy as the company that makes the bike is located in Shropshire.
I can service normal mechanical brakes, replace cables, blocks, adjust etc. Is it just as easy with an hydraulic system.?

 

[Malc2098]

That's interesting. I can't see a reservoir or cylinder on the images, not can I find any spares in their catalogue. They certainly are disc brakes. The only ones I've come across are cable operated on a quick thread inside the calliper.

They've miniaturised them!

[youtubessl]UUWwOwSKr20[/youtubessl]

https://youtu.be/UUWwOwSKr20

 

[Woodbloke]

Dunno how easy it is to service them, but for the last few months SWIMBO has been riding a Cube step-through fitted with hydraulic brakes and has been delighted with them. No.1 son has also just bought a titanium framed gravel bike and has likewise mentioned that hydraullical brakes are great.

I intend to change my velocipede shortly and intend to get hold of one of these (or similar) with an internal 11 speed hub and Gates belt drive, so no messy, oily chain and very little maintenance. I'm constantly fed up with standard derailleur gears that don't engage correctly after a few months :evil: - Rob

 

[Raymedullary]

I've been a keen cyclist for most of my life (TT/road race/ track/touring) and lived through just about every type of equipment.
Disc brakes.... mmm. Well most people have teenage memories of how bad brakes were, this is usually because they had cheap B.S.O's with steel rims that had terrible braking. Higher quality road bikes have alloy rims and therefore better braking.
Then... in around the 90's dual pivot rim brakes made their appearance and were a huge improvement.
Good short reach rim brakes with good blocks are as good or better than discs, they often offer better modulation than discs, they can be lighter too.
Hail the MTB. Rim brakes are a bad idea here because they get clogged with mud and wear your rims out at a rate of knots. Therefore we saw the development of disc brakes. (I do have good hydraulic discs on mine).
These have now filtered through to road bikes but in the words of Mr Boardman (who is now known for having his name painted on not always high end bikes :lol: ) "discs on road bikes are trying to solve a problem that does not exist"

Here endeth!

Go for it... those disc brakes will be absolutely all good! yes Tectro are good and actually hydraulic is less maintenance than a cable and easy enough to service.

 

[Woodster]

I’ve got a mountain bike with Avid cable disc brakes and they work very well. As an ex mechanic I’d rather not fiddle about with Hydraulic brakes on a push bike but I don’t suppose you have much of a choice with some models. I partly agree about disc brakes on road bikes. MTB’s might need the stopping power of disc brakes but probably not so much on road bikes. For most folks I suppose even the least effective modern brakes will still put you over the handlebars if you’re not careful. My bike has disc specific Mavic rims but I’m happy with the brakes I’ve got.

 

[Malc2098]

I can recall riding motor bikes with single leading shoe front drum brakes. Then came the twin leading shoe drum brakes, infinitely better and more controllable than the SLSs.

Then they introduced the single hydraulic disc brake and on the Norton I had, my right forearm muscles doubled in size!! :eusa-liar:

In my opinion, the TLS drum brake was much more controllable than the disc brake. It's only problem was rainwater getting into the drum and reducing its effect until the water dried out.

The disc brake's advantage was water was wiped off during the first revolution of the disc in the pressurised calliper, but it was still difficult to control by a single hand grip. So the hydraulic double disc brake was introduced.

Over about fifty years of biking, most of them professionally, I still think the TLS drum brake was the best in controllable performance, especially if you practice cigar shaped braking (some of you will know what that means). Mind you, the power of modern bikes exceeds the last powerful bike I ever rode, so maybe they need that sort of stopping power.

What I think I'm trying to say is that, I don't think a female's urban cycle actually needs the technology of hydraulic disc brakes and if applied in an emergency situation could quite easily lock up and cause the rider to lose control and come off.

 

[spb]

My mountain bike has hydraulic discs from the factory, my nice road bike has cable rim brakes, and my getting-around-town hybrid shipped with cable disc brakes.

I replaced the cable disc brakes with hydraulic ones. Initially that was for performance reasons, but they're they're also so much easier to service, which is to say you barely need to. The cables stretch, fray, get dirty, need adjustment from time to time, and so on. The hydraulic lines get set up once and just keep going - they've been on that bike for around 8 years now, with daily use for around half that time, and have required no maintenance work at all in that time, unlike all the rest of the bike. They adjust themselves for pad wear, so the only thing you need to do is replace the pads when they wear out, and that doesn't require going anywhere near the hydraulic fluid. Even if you do need to, the Shimano ones use mineral oil so aren't remotely scary, unlike the DOT4 fluid that's in my mountain bike (Formula brakes).

Maintenance aside, they also just work far better than any cable brake I've ever used. Once set up, the amount of control and feedback you get through the brake lever is far beyond anything else.

 

[spb]

What I think I'm trying to say is that, I don't think a female's urban cycle actually needs the technology of hydraulic disc brakes and if applied in an emergency situation could quite easily lock up and cause the rider to lose control and come off.

Oh, it absolutely doesn't need it, but once you're used to it it's far more pleasant to use.

For the emergency braking thing, if you're used to spongy cable brakes and slam the levers on as hard as you physically can, then yes a hydraulic system will cause you problems. Once you get used to it, though, there's a lot more control in a hydraulic system than any cable system I've used. Just as an emergency stop in a modern car doesn't involve slamming your brake pedal to the floor, but modulating the pedal force to get the level of braking force you need for the situation.

 

[DaveL]

I have cable discs on a Boardman road bike and after 12000 miles had to swap out the calipers due to the adjustment becoming very difficult to do. This was due to the amount of times they needed adjusting.
On my 2 Orbea road bikes (1 carbon, 1 aluminium) I have hydraulic discs and have only ever had to change the pads. You do have to be careful not to grab a big handful of brake as you can lock up the wheel, but I think they are a more reliable brake. If the bike is ridden in all weather conditions then rims will wear and then the wheel needs replacing, new disc rotors are much cheaper when required.

 

[AndyP]

Thanks Chaps,
If I could find a VERY low step through bike ( the one shown is just 41cms ) that is also light weight, just 11.5 kgs, but without hydraulic brakes and derailleur gears I would buy it.

Out of interest Rob, which Cube bike does the missus have?

You have put my mind at rest about the brakes, nothing to worry about. She is unlikely to go mad on the brakes
nor ride around at breakneck speeds and if they are easy to service as mentioned that I can manage.

 

[Woodbloke]

Out of interest Rob, which Cube bike does the missus have?

If you have a gander at the Tredz site Andy, they sell 'nearly new' bikes so she bought a velocipede very similar to this one with hefty discount applied. Thus far, she's been very, very happy with it and all we had to do was to sort out some decent pedals (the one's supplied were rubbish) and some off roading type mudguards.
We quite like Cube as they're assembled Germany even although I assume that many of the components come from Taiwan, so the cCc element is kept to a minimum and we're pretty keen these days to avoid wherever possible anything emanating from the PRC - Rob

https://www.tredz.co.uk/nearly-new-hybr ... port+bikes

 

[AndyP]

Thanks Rob, that type of step is unsuitable. Daughter is not able to lift her leg that high. Looking at the other Cube models without the diagonal “crossbar” they all come in at greater step through height than the Islabikes.
And they are heavier by 5 or 6 Kgs.

 

[MattS]

I've had disc brakes from various manufacturers, they all have different fluids, adaptors and tweaks to the technique to bleed but not that tricky. Not something you need to do very often! Pads are super easy to change, and if you're getting any rub fairly easily fixed by loosening caliper bolts on frame, applying brake and retightening with brake on. You have to be careful when wheel is out not to apply brake as getting the pistons back in can be tricky but otherwise so easy and effective as brakes.

 

[AJB Temple]

Just a thought Andy, many (most) folding bikes are step through and typically have conventional calliper brakes and hub gears. Electric versions available too. Given your frequent travels a folder might be handy for her?

 

[Malc2098]

Andy,

I just googled 'dutch style step through bike' and a large number came up, many with two down tubes, but some with only the one, so you might find a low enough dimension among them.

 

[AndyP]

Just a thought Andy, many (most) folding bikes are step through and typically have conventional calliper brakes and hub gears. Electric versions available too. Given your frequent travels a folder might be handy for her?

I’ve had a Brompton folder for 20 years. The problem is wheel size and subsequent stability. Fashion or course also pays a small part

 

[AndyP]

Andy,

I just googled 'dutch style step through bike' and a large number came up, many with two down tubes, but some with only the one, so you might find a low enough dimension among them.

Thanks for taking the time to do that Malc. PreCovid we were regular visitors to the low countries, two of my daughter’s bikes, including the current one, were bought there. We also bought a step through electric bike but like most lecky bikes it is heavy with battery and motor position altering the centre of gravity considerably. When she falls she falls heavy, having a very lightweight bike reduces the chance of her losing control and when she does fall makes picking it up herself so much easier.
This is not for daily use BTW just the odd jaunt to the village and the occasional longer rides.

I’m happy that the Islabike Iinked to is about as good as it gets. Now satisfied that hydraulic bikes are nowt to be scared of we may well get her one.

 

[novocaine]

Servicing is change the pads. You are unlikely to have to touch the rest on that style of bike and if you do, it won't be for a very long time.
Pad change is simple. Push pistons back. Remove old pads, insert new. If you need to realign them it's sleek or 2 bolts, squish lever and retighten.

Tektro are acceptable. I wouldn't say industry leader, but certainly they hold a good market share, in the same way as asda does, but you wouldn't say it was the best.

Buy the bike.

 

[Woodster]

The hydraulic lines get set up once and just keep going - they've been on that bike for around 8 years now, with daily use for around half that time, and have required no maintenance work at all in that time.

It sounds like changing your brake fluid is well overdue.

“Professional mountain bike racers need to change their fluid every 6 months or less. Most recreational mountain bikers should do it annually.”

https://www.cxmagazine.com/disc-brake-b ... s-magazine

A mate of mine’s had Hydraulic discs on his road bikes over the past few years and he gets the brakes serviced, including a fluid change every year.

Another mate rides about 15 - 20K every morning in summer on his road bike (he’s over 70) and refuses to even have discs on any of his bikes. His last bike cost him over £10K.

 

[spb]

I notice you didn't quote the very next sentence in the article: "Many road riders can go several years without touching their brakes", and later on "For mineral oil brakes, dirt entering the system is the only thing dictating the service interval."

My town hybrid bike, used on roads, with mineral oil brakes, hasn't needed a fluid change in several years.

The mountain bike is another matter; that needs a thorough going-over before it goes out again because it's not been used in anger for several years, which is nothing to do with the brake system in particular.

 

[GarF]

My 2p.... I suspect the majority of leisure cyclists and especially youngsters will rarely subject their brakes to anything close to their full potential performance, compared with say an 80kg adult bombing down a steep twisty, possibly damp road or track. I think there's little to pick between discs and rims maintenance-wise unless you're doing big mileage. Having both in my stable I'd say rims need regular, very basic, attention and brake block wear is visibly easy to monitor, while discs need less frequent but more fiddly attention. I did about 3000 miles through 2 winters in all weathers towing 40kg of trailer and children around hilly Durham on a single set of pads in road BB7s- the biggest difference from (decent) rim brakes in practice is the noise, which from the discs in wet or even damp weather is appalling (like riding a cross between a tuning fork and a trombone) and so far resistant to every recommended fix.

If you like the look of the bike, just buy it. I don't think there's a slam dunk argument for one type of brake over the other unless you have a very specific use case. I have never met anybody who regretted buying an Islabike, and just recently sold our first two for virtually the same money as we bought them for (second hand).

 

[AndyP]

Very much leisure cyclists here. So extreme use is unlikely. Nice to here more positive news about Islabikes, very hard to find a bad word about them anywhere.

Another question I raised with their technical support yesterday was regarding the fitting of a derailleur guard which I have done on all the kids bikes in the past. Their response was swift and educated me why they do not fit them and why in fact they cannot be fitted retrospectively. Derailleur hangers are a new concept to me ( a leisure rider) but I now understand what they are and how they work. I will have to get a spare if/when I order the bike.