Table saw – worth a mild fettle or sell on?

[AJB Temple]

As some of you know, I bought a Draper CTS 200 table saw, the one with floor stand, cast iron table and cast iron sliding table, just to do my kitchen build at home. It was a temporary acquisition because my workshop, where I had a bigger table saw, is a bit too far away to be convenient. So I put this in a temporary shopb (ie the kitchen I was building).

I’ve now sold my bigger Multico table saw, which I always hated, as I have started clearing out my workshop of stuff I don’t want. This is so I can repurpose the building (possibly making it much larger). The saw sold for 5 times what I paid for it and the intention eventually is to fit out a new workshop.

New W/s will get a decent small t/s such as Wadkin and a spindle. Bandsaw will be bigger. There will be a log burner. P/T will also be moved on for a better one. Sanding thicknesser will be acquired. These are my current dreams.

Just getting views really on whether it’s worth fettling the Draper, or move that on now as well. In practice, virtually all of the work making endless kitchen units was done on a full-size sheet cobbled up bench with a Mafell tracksaw and new blades (100% of the sheet work), or cut by hand. The Draper t/s has been useful for ripping down oak boards, and is surprisingly accurate doing that.

It is still on the original blade, which I fear is not great. It can bog down somewhat in 30mm oak if the material is thick and feed rate too high. It will stall in very knotty wood. Feed rate would lose a snails’ race I suspect in my oak planks. Max claimed depth is 60 mm at 90 degrees. I consider this to be pure fantasy. Dust extraction is rigged up to a Numatic vac, sucking from above and below, and this certainly captures any dust that does not spray out of all the other gaps. The blade guard and riving knife are both terrible. Riving knife is not rigid enough and not super square to the blade, and the guard is plastic and bolted to it and sits a long way above the blade.

I think it will be at least two years, probably realistically three, before I have finished the new workshop or major extension of the old one.

So, to get the best out of the Draper without spending money I won’t get back, what would you guys recommend. I mainly cut seasoned oak.

• New 200mm blade obviously (any recommendations?).
  Worth replacing the riving knife and guard (if so with what?)
  Is it worth considering replacing the motor (I think it is an 1100watt induction as it is not noisy).
  Seal up all the gaps with foam?
  Make zero clearance insert.

Cast iron table and cast iron sliding table are both surprisingly good, but I am aware that pigs ear does not maketh silk purse.

Picture of similar:

 

[ScaredyCat]

It is still on the original blade

Max claimed depth is 60 mm at 90 degrees. I consider this to be pure fantasy

You're ripping 60mm oak with the original blade?

Yeah, I can point at exactly where the problem is...

:eusa-naughty:

I have one of these too, if I had a workshop I'd swap it for something bigger (dreams of a Laguna) but I don't and this saw works great even if the surface is small, and I've literally just finished ripping 44mm oak with no problems at all. I used a freud 16T rip blade. For cross cuts I use a Freud 40T cross cut blade. I also have a flat tooth blade with a 4mm kerf for tenons etc.

If you're planning on doing all those upgrades, just buy a different saw. Axminster have some hobby (https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-craft-ac254ts-254mm-table-saw-106803) or trade ( https://www.axminstertools.com/axminster-trade-series-aw10bsb2-saw-bench-230v-501196 ) saws that aren't far off the original Draper list price (yeah I know it only cost you a fraction of that) but you can still flog it for a profit - it's an induction saw so it'll improve someone's life if they've been using a site saw for any length of time.)

 

[9fingers]

I don't think it will be worth pouring a lot of cash into it as you won't get it back as it will always be a Draper. Best to make it work for you as best as possible for the 2-3 years.

I'd certainly get a decent blade with plenty of carbide in the tips so you can get it sharpened a few times.
If you are going to be doing a lot of ripping, then get a rip blade too.
Sorting out the extraction so you can get rid of the top extraction hose is worth doing. You've got half a turn of the blade to suck all the dust out of the gullets before it chucks it back onto the table. Draught excluder brushes round the blade height quadrant help seal the leaks
I've set my extraction like this and apart from dust cuts trimming an edge, I get little or no sawdust on the table surface.
Zero clearance inserts are well worth the effort and whilst you are at it make a half dozen blank ones to have on the shelf
I would not bother with changing the motor in trying to get more power. 1.5hp is possibly about right for a 200mm blade and I doubt that you will get a 2hp motor in there without a lot of fettling.

Bob

 

[Trevanion]

New 200mm blade obviously (any recommendations?).

If only there was a handy circular saw blade guide you could refer to... :eusa-think:

:lol:

I think a really nice (and therefore, expensive) blade such as an Atkinson Walker or Swedex would be wasted on the machine due to the small diameter size, if you upgrade you're going to be looking at either 250mm or 300mm machines where the 200mm blade won't be too much use really. Buy a good quality CMT blade and you won't go far wrong, if you're solely ripping timber with the saw definitely get a dedicated ripping blade, it will make a world of difference.

https://www.scosarg.com/cmt-290-rip-sawblade-d-200-b-2-8-d-30-z-24

Worth replacing the riving knife and guard (if so with what?)

Not particularly, the one on the machine seems adequate if the one pictured is the same.

Is it worth considering replacing the motor (I think it is an 1100watt induction as it is not noisy).

If you had a spare motor kicking about that would fit then it MAY be worth it but to buy a new motor you're probably not far off what you actually paid for the machine.

Seal up all the gaps with foam?

This can be more of a hindrance to extraction than an aid if you go over the top, by sealing off the machine completely you'll only be pulling air from the throat plate which means when there's a piece being passed over it the machine will be sealed completely and absolutely no airflow will happen, meaning no extraction.

Make zero clearance insert.

Not really necessary unless you're working with sheets with fragile veneers/coatings or you're doing a lot of crosscutting where it could be helpful to prevent breaking out.

 

[AJB Temple]

Great. I was hoping you would give me a blade steer. Thanks. It will be a rip saw.

As it happens I do have a spare induction motor that is a great deal more powerful than the Draper one. Probably much too powerful as it was originally fitted to a 12" saw.

The next saw will be a 12" blade. The multi (which I bought on a whim when I was collecting another machine) was 12" but the reason I hated it was the table was heavy steel plate (not cast iron) and it never seemed to be dead on true and did not work well with the parallel fence. If I were in the US I would buy a SawStop. Probably needs to be single phase if I enlarge the current workshop or possibly 3 phase if I relocate it closer to the supply pole in next door's field.

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Adrian, that Draper is a clone of the old Axi 250 somethingorother. It is underpowered, noisy, the fence is notoriously innaccurate and unpredictable. What you have is a biscuit tin, with a cast iron lid. The sliding table eats space and is renowned for moving out of register..
There is a gent on UKWS, Mikejhn I think, he has posted oodles of fettles and 'improvements' on there; nigh on a temple to 'making it work...despite...'.
I had an Axi one years ago when skint and desperate to achieve a LOT of homebuilding. I worked through, swore at, chucked potty fits over that saw. It got me through, but it was an exercise in frustration. It got sold on.
I now have a Wadkin.AGS 10", vintage 1963. Chalk and cheese. Stable, powerful, fence stays where it should, proper mitre slots, not these Mickey Mouse mock Tee slot abortions.
The Axi's and their rebadged, but genetically-identical clones are alright, but for sheer dependability, ease of use and reduction in adrenalin, a good, heavy, well-machined, second-hand Wadkin, Startrite, or similar is hard to beat - and about the same price as the biscuit tins on steroids!

Yes, I know that is totally biased. Sorry, no, just experience.

Sam.

 

[Woodbloke]

Adrian, that Draper is a clone of the old Axi 250 somethingorother. It is underpowered, noisy, the fence is notoriously innaccurate and unpredictable. What you have is a biscuit tin, with a cast iron lid. The sliding table eats space and is renowned for moving out of register..
There is a gent on UKWS, Mikejhn I think, he has posted oodles of fettles and 'improvements' on there; nigh on a temple to 'making it work...despite...'.
I had an Axi one years ago when skint and desperate to achieve a LOT of homebuilding. I worked through, swore at, chucked potty fits over that saw. It got me through, but it was an exercise in frustration. It got sold on.

Sam.

I had an original, French made Kity 419 which I bought from the old Ax shop in the High St and it was a quite acceptable little machine, albeit with lousy extraction. Ax and others (Draper, Charnwood etc) then based their own machines on the Kity but they were Chiwanese made and IMO, simply not 'up to snuff'
In a different life when I was teaching, my 'shop was equipped with both a Wadkin tablesaur (which did get seriously used and abused :eusa-whistle: ) together with a 10" Wadkin p/t, each with no extraction whatsoever. The build quality of each machine was superb having similarities to the familiar 'out house' - Rob

Edit - us CDT teachers in Dorset had no formal training on how to use both of these machines and it wasn't for quite some time until DCC eventually laid on a few courses on what to do and more importantly, what not to do :shock:

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks guys. I have decided to just follow Trevanions blade advice and swap that, and otherwise leave as is.

One reason why my proper Multico table saw git very little use was that my proper workshop is a stupid shape. It is an ex-pigeon loft (for the full on fancier type) and so is about 10 metres long but rather narrow. This doesn't work well with a table saw.

The Draper was bought as a single job tool - just to do my kitchen, but has actually only been used slightly to do a bit of ripping. It is quiet though. I still have the utility room to do (not even started yet) so I may keep it until that is done, and then sell it on.

I will buy a proper table saw when I retire I think. Aiming for 3 years. If I find a nice Wadkin or suchlike prior to that I will just buy it.

 

[ScaredyCat]

noisy

If yours was noisy then I'm going to say there was either something wrong with it, you have hyper sensitive hearing or you've never used a DW745.

 

[Peri]

On a kind of related note, anyone know how easy it is to adjust the belt tension on this? Is it something I can do by removing the insert plate or the side covers (mines bolted into a unit with no access from underneath).

 

[SamQ aka Ah! Q!]

Scaredycat. I HAVE experienced the DeWalt, and will.yield the point straightaway. Its brother, the 733 planer, could only be eclipsed by Concorde on take-off.

My menories of the Axi 250 were that the casing resonated once a cut was underway. The motor itself was quiet, but under load, and with that drumskin pressed steel extension table on the right, things got noisy.
All subjective, I know, no decibel readings for comparative cuts, but the greater mass of cast iron 'tubs'seems to deaden sound.
And, of course, at least the Axi had a proper induction motor, instead of being one the 'screamers' found in circular saws etc.

Sam

 

[Cabinetman]

As Perry just alluded to, it might be worth checking the belt tension, probably just a poor blade and a bit underpowered but you never know.
When you are looking for your proper 12” saw don’t forget to look at a Sedgwick T315, I’ve had one for years and it’s excellent. Ian

 

[Woodbloke]

, could only be eclipsed by Concorde on take-off.

Sam

I doubt it Sam :lol: I've stood a quarter of a mile directly behind Concorde on take off at Thiefrow with full re-heat. It was a bit loud :shock: and the noise was like a giant ripping 'ye olde skool' Yellow Pages in half with his bare hands. I detest the modern usage of the word 'awesome' but in this case it was fully justified - Rob

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks Ian. Noted re Sedgewick. A