This is why I would starve if I worked for myself.

[Peri]

So, my wifes Boss - a woman I've known for 35+ years - asked me to make her 3 window boxes. Simple tray things to hold some plastic troughs.

She's happy to pay for quality, she didn't want pine, she wanted 'proper' wood - and they had to be painted white to match the front of her house.

I priced up some cedar (£240), and off the top of my head, because she's an old friend, I said I'd do them for £50 a box. In my head, £400 for 3 planters is pretty steep. I wouldn't pay that, but she seemed very happy.

By the time I'd finished (I even forgot to add in the time it'd take to paint them when I thought of what I'd charge :eusa-doh, I worked out I'd charged about £4 p/h :lol: :lol: (It doesn't bother me, I didn't do it to make a killing).



Out of curiosity, I wondered what a 'proper firm' would charge. I found a place that sold roughly the same size, but they used pine framing and just cedar cladding. Fairly gobsmacked to find the going rate..... £485 per box!!

 

[Phil]

I have also had to do some 'paying' work over the years and it is very difficult to cost out labour and machine time and not over price yourself, especially if you are a hobbyist.

Doing contract audit work is a lot easier as there are going rates per hour.

 

[Malc2098]

Coincidentally, I set up a spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago of how much the materials and hardware cost for me to make a ukulele, including only modestly priced timbers, not expensive exotic types.

Then, based on the time it took to make the Tenor ukulele on the course recently, I added those hours at the national minimum wage of £9.50.


The total did not include consumables; abrasives, glue, lacquer etc, not power and of course it's my own 'shop so there's not rental overheads.

Well over £500. Well over.

The market thinks because they are a quarter of the size of a guitar, then they ought to be a quarter of the price.

I should coco!

 

[Woodbloke]

...I added those hours at the national minimum wage of £9.50.


The total did not include consumables; abrasives, glue, lacquer etc, not power and of course it's my own 'shop so there's not rental overheads.

Well over £500. Well over.

I should coco!

A commercial cabinet maker could be expected to charge 'garage' rates, in other words, the rate you'd pay for someone at a half respectable garage to service your jalopy, so £20-30ish per hour (but you haven't got the same overheads) Charge commensurate wonga and your ukes become ever more spendy! - Rob

 

[Doug]

Pricing is the worse part of a job in many ways certainly for me at least. I’m fortunate that I’ve done work for the majority of my customers for so long that most don’t ask for a price, I’m presently making a gate & a small cabinet that fall into that category though if I think something is going to cost an awful lot I will give them a ball park figure before I start.

The biggest problem with new customers is making them understand you are producing a one off & not a mass produced item.

 

[Woodbloke]

Pricing is the worse part of a job in many ways certainly for me at least. I’m fortunate that I’ve done work for the majority of my customers for so long that most don’t ask for a price, I’m presently making a gate & a small cabinet that fall into that category though if I think something is going to cost an awful lot I will give them a ball park figure before I start.

The biggest problem with new customers is making them understand you are producing a one off & not a mass produced item.

Agreed, Doug; it always has been and will continue to be so, in part as new customers expect a top quality job at OFL or IKEA prices

In the late and very great Alan Peters tome 'Cabinetmaking; the Professional Approach' he details a very useful method of making bespoke pieces and how to price them; recommended if you haven't seen it - Rob

 

[AJB Temple]

I've never understood why people go into cabinet making as a career choice unless your name is Linley and you know everyone in Chelsea The market was destroyed by Habitat, Heals and Ikea. Had this discussion recently when a friend asked if I could make her a large bespoke oak door. She knows I have the kit needed. It's a very odd size, split and arched. She had been quoted a price from a proper maker and nearly fell over. £8,200 plus VAT. 12 weeks lead time.

So I asked her how much she would expect to pay her plumber or electrician for a days work. She reckoned her plumber is about £500 a day (about right for her area in London) plus VAT. I said the skill level of a good cabinet maker is at least equal, but he needs a spacious workshop (plumber can work from a van) and at least 4 very expensive machines to make doors (table saw, p/t, spindle, sander). I told her what the price of good quality oak is now and how long it would take me as an amateur to make it and fit it. (several days is the answer).

Obviously I declined to do the job as I want to keep her as a friend. It is next to impossible to make good money doing hand crafted one off work, as people are unrealistically price conditioned.

 

[Peri]

I've been asked several times to make things for family and friends. I really dislike saying 'No', so generally I say 'Of course......but first find something similar in Ikea or XYZshop that you like. Now I'll let you price up the timber, then remember to add hardware, and 2 or 3 days wages for me, and get back to me if you still want me to do it"

Never had anybody come back

The planters were basically done for goodwill - she is my wife's boss after-all !

 

[thetyreman]

you need a whole set of entirely different skills to work for yourself, you wouldn't necessarily starve, you'd have to learn through making mistakes, undercharging is a common problem, people forget things like depreciation, obviously bills, travel costs, insurance all have to be added into the final cost, you really do have to sit down and analyse everything down to the penny.

I stopped making anything for family and especially friends, I only make the odd very occassional thing now for family and don't charge anything, I can't do anything for 'mates rates' it's like saying I'll take money from you, a form of theft and it can ruin friendships easily, that's why I stopped, very few people will want to pay full price for anything in todays world, even more so with what is happening right now and money being squeezed tighter than ever.

 

[thetyreman]

Pricing is the worse part of a job in many ways certainly for me at least. I’m fortunate that I’ve done work for the majority of my customers for so long that most don’t ask for a price, I’m presently making a gate & a small cabinet that fall into that category though if I think something is going to cost an awful lot I will give them a ball park figure before I start.

The biggest problem with new customers is making them understand you are producing a one off & not a mass produced item.

Agreed, Doug; it always has been and will continue to be so, in part as new customers expect a top quality job at OFL or IKEA prices

In the late and very great Alan Peters tome 'Cabinetmaking; the Professional Approach' he details a very useful method of making bespoke pieces and how to price them; recommended if you haven't seen it - Rob

absolutely, the peters book is the best thing I've read on the subject so far and worth the price of the book alone, even though it's a little out of date, he was a true pro in every way, would have loved to have met him before he passed away.

 

[thetyreman]

I once had somebody ask me to make a bed for his daughter for BELOW ikea prices I politely declined...

 

[Doug]

I once had somebody ask me to make a bed for his daughter for BELOW ikea prices I politely declined...

I bet you wouldn’t buy the materials for the price IKEA sell their beds, we are looking at chairs at the mo for our Garden room the ones the GLW likes are £70 at IKEA, it not worth even trying to copy them at that price.

 

[Phil]

My current project is making some of these and also refurbishing some older ones.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=7803

It is for a very old friend, I charge for all materials used counting right down to the #20 biscuits and screws.
My time is free and I get the pleasure of using the equipment.
I use an Excel sheet to record the purchases and consumptions.
I also compare the price against a commercially produced unit.

 

[Peri]

I once had somebody ask me to make a bed for his daughter for BELOW ikea prices I politely declined...

I bet you wouldn’t buy the materials for the price IKEA sell their beds, we are looking at chairs at the mo for our Garden room the ones the GLW likes are £70 at IKEA, it not worth even trying to copy them at that price.

My wife wanted fitted wardrobes all along one bedroom wall - I was happy to make them and would have enjoyed doing it.

The cost of materials alone was probably triple what it would cost to buy a perfectly adequate solution straight from Ikea.