Tricky little boat repair.

[Pinch]

Hello Chaps,

This project is for an existing client who lives in the village near the shop. He has an old wooden sailing vessel which he's going to give to a friend once the repair work has been completed.

I was originally approached with this tricky little project last autumn and I spent 4 hours carefully removing most of the stern's clad, consisting of mahogany veneer and marine ply. I still have more to remove around the edges which is going to require even more care.

I took these two photos last autumn before the removal process began. The stern measures approximately 2.0M across where it meets the top edge of the deck, and 1.0M deep where it meets the hull.

The materials (2mm mahogany construction veneer and 6mm mahogany marine 5 ply) arrived yesterday and today, I popped down to site to refresh my memory. The following photos were taken today.

Firstly, here's the ply and veneer on the bench. The ply is 1220x2510 and very expensive.

Here's a picture of a piece of material I removed last autumn from the stern. You can see the match isn't bad (surprising - considering how many years of sun it's had) and you can also see the original ply is 3 ply with a 2mm veneer. The new ply is 5 ply.

And now on site. Here's the old lady under wraps...

And here's the old girl's stern... Remember, the top edge measures 2.0M across.

The top edge is concealed under the deck and I still need to carefully remove the old without disturbing the deck, which I'm going to have to do with a chisel and mallet. It's an absolute pig to get out.

Equally, the curved edges meeting the hull need to be carefully removed to avoid any damage to the hull's veneer work. It also looks like the stern's veneer was applied before the hull's veneer. This means I'm going to have to be extra extra careful so the stern's new ply butts against the hull's existing veneer. I can then run the stern's new veneer over the end grains of the hull's original veneer. A very tricky operation indeed.

I'll report back soon.

Cheers,

 

[Mike G]

Well, I love watching work on boats, and I've helped out occasionally with a mate's little collection (26 wooden boats at one count)....but I'm struggling to orientate myself in these photos. I guess things will become clearer when the work on the boat starts.

 

[AndyP]

You do get an amazing variety of projects. From carts to boats. Great stuff

 

[Newbie_Neil]

Paul, that's some job that you've taken on there. Neil

 

[Pinch]

Well, I love watching work on boats, and I've helped out occasionally with a mate's little collection (26 wooden boats at one count)....but I'm struggling to orientate myself in these photos. I guess things will become clearer when the work on the boat starts.

Cheers Mike. I can't get far enough away to take a decent photo. I'll prepare a sketch which should give you a better bearing.

 

[Pinch]

You do get an amazing variety of projects. From carts to boats. Great stuff

Cheers Andy - cor you're not kidding. I'd like to build a wooden car. bscene-drinkingcheers:

 

[Pinch]

Paul, that's some job that you've taken on there. Neil

Cheers Neil. Yes, it's going to require a bit of patience this one. I need to start it pretty soon too. :|

 

[Mike G]

.........I'd like to build a wooden car. bscene-drinkingcheers:

Me too! I've had it in mind for years. First, though, there's the wooden computer.

 

[AndyP]

Cheers Andy - cor you're not kidding. I'd like to build a wooden car. bscene-drinkingcheers:

What a bit like a Morgan? I do have a small piece of a Morgan around here somewhere.

 

[Pinch]

Not a Morgan, but something completely bazaar and trendy bscene-drinkingcheers:

 

[Pinch]

Here's that sketch Mike. Not great by anyone's standards, but it should give you a better idea of what's what and the basic shape of the boat.

 

[Mike G]

Erm............thanks Paul. I do know which end of a boat to find the stern, though. Nice sketch. :lol:

 

[Pinch]

:lol: :lol: Sorry Mike, I couldn't resist that one.

It was when I was up in the Crow's Nest at the shop yesterday preparing a drawing for a quote and whilst eating my sarnies Mrs P so kindly made for me, I thought ah yes.... a sketch for the boat thread. So, munching away, I got scribbling and carried away with a few little quirky bits. I especially like the 'Kate & Leo' scribble from the famous Titanic scene. It got me giggling

 

[Pinch]

I spent a few hours on this old vessel today and I also took some slightly further away pictures.

Here she is still under wraps.

The hull or part of it.

Standing on the deck at the stern.

Here are a couple of shots looking through from the open stern - port and starboard.

Okay, just to quickly recap. I removed most of the stern's veneer and clad last autumn, but I still needed to clean up the perimeter edges before starting the replacement work. Here, I'm using a groove cutting bit to clean up the top edge where the stern meets the deck. You can see the deck edging overhangs the stern slightly, so this cutting bit seemed a good alternative to a chisel and mallet. I used my eye and the cutter's stem as the guide, making sure it was always around 2mm from the deck's edge.

And here's the under edge cleaned up - pretty good going.

I then changed replaced the groove bit for a straight cutter for the edges around the hull.

I thought it would be best to form a rebate instead of just levelling the hull's veneer and ply with the stern's framework, so this meant forming a rebate. It doesn't need to be too fussy as the stern's veneer will override the new ply and over the hull's veneer - neat job I would say.

Here's my first pass getting reasonablly close to the edge and at half cutting depth. Again, the only guide was my eye.

And rebate formed all round the hull's edge.

After having a clean up, I went back to the shop for my lunch and then cut the 6mm ply into 150mm laths. Half way through, my little table saw packed up

Back on site and my first piece to cut in was at the top. I roughly gauged out where these were going in prep of the cut-outs for some hardware later.

I forgot to bring a clamp with me, so I temporarily screw fixed a lath at centre, measured the the highest point and set up the compass for the scribe.

Cut and fixed, plus another couple.

Incidentally, I'm only dry fixing these at the moment - I still have the outlets to cut, plus a wee little shelf bracket to make. I will be removing all the laths tomorrow and then gluing them down with epoxy west. I shall also fit a few timbers to the undersides to flush the joints more. All the perimeter joints will have a thicker solution of epoxy fill as well. Ready for a sand down and mahogany veneer.

Here are all the laths cut in.

Report back tomorrow.

Cheers,

 

[Mike G]

Those pieces you fitted dry are bent into a slight curve, right? So, as you bend them, the bottom edge deflects, meaning the next straight board needs adjusting at its top edge to make a reasonable fit, right? I presume this is just a question of offer up, mark, adjust, offer up again, adjust again, until it fits? Then rinse and repeat with all the other boards.

Free-hand unguided router..........anyone who thinks woodwork isn't without its moments of high tension clearly hasn't tried it!

Forgetting tools: isn't that frustrating? You have to think the job through entirely before you leave the workshop, but it's so difficult to remember every last little thing.

Anyway, Paul, it's looking good. I like a nice wooden boat, but the secret of them is the epoxy, which seals every little nook and cranny, and must have been an absolute boon to boat builders and owners when it was invented.

 

[AndyP]

With all those clamps holding the plastic sheeting up I am surprised that there was not one spare.

I am always slightly surprised at how thin the wood needs to be on on the hull of a boat.

By father built a dingy in the dining room many many years OK. One of the Mirror kits made from marine ply, copper staples and as Mike says a lot of epoxy and resin.

 

[Rod]

Nice work Paul

Rod

 

[Pinch]

Those pieces you fitted dry are bent into a slight curve, right? So, as you bend them, the bottom edge deflects, meaning the next straight board needs adjusting at its top edge to make a reasonable fit, right? I presume this is just a question of offer up, mark, adjust, offer up again, adjust again, until it fits? Then rinse and repeat with all the other boards.

Free-hand unguided router..........anyone who thinks woodwork isn't without its moments of high tension clearly hasn't tried it!

Forgetting tools: isn't that frustrating? You have to think the job through entirely before you leave the workshop, but it's so difficult to remember every last little thing.

Anyway, Paul, it's looking good. I like a nice wooden boat, but the secret of them is the epoxy, which seals every little nook and cranny, and must have been an absolute boon to boat builders and owners when it was invented.

Cheers Mike. Yep, that's it, and the wider the laths, the more you have to work it. I was quite fortunate with these and the whole clad only took me 2.5 hours. Some of the joints are slightly proud but the good old epoxy will sort these out. The veneers will be cut at 38mm strips so these should require little shooting-in work, although as this will be the finish, I'll be much more fussy on the joints.

Oh man, I'm always forgetting things these days. The clamps were on the bench in the shop ready to go, I just forgot them.

It's been a while since I last worked with epoxy resin and it certainly is an awesome material.

 

[Pinch]

With all those clamps holding the plastic sheeting up I am surprised that there was not one spare.

I am always slightly surprised at how thin the wood needs to be on on the hull of a boat.

By father built a dingy in the dining room many many years OK. One of the Mirror kits made from marine ply, copper staples and as Mike says a lot of epoxy and resin.

Cheers Andy. :eusa-doh: :eusa-doh: Why didn't I think of that. There were definitely 2 spare because I released these to fold back the tarp. I am a dohnut. :lol:

Yes, the old wooden boat construction is a craft within itself - fabulous stuff. ER is very forgiving.

 

[Pinch]

Nice work Paul

Rod

Cheers Rod

 

[Pinch]

I've now glued the laths onto the stern's framework. I then mixed up a thicker pot of epoxy and filled the perimeter joints and started to build up some of the indiscrepancies which should be enough. I'm back on this project Wednesday morning which will include prepping the stern's surface before I start the venner work. Meanwhile, I'm looking for a small second hand table saw. Hopefully, before I rip down all the veneer leaves, otherwise, I shall have to do it the old fashion way. :eusa-think:

Anyway, here a few pictures of the laths glued and setting. I've cut the outlets much larger to what they were - as instructed by the client. He told me to gauge it to slightly less than the size of a beer can. :lol:

The lower part here looks very bumpy, but I'm sure it isn't in reality. I'll have to check this on Wednesday.

Report back soon.

Cheers,

 

[AndyP]

What's wrong with the TS Paul? any chance of repair?

 

[Pinch]

What's wrong with the TS Paul? any chance of repair?

I don't know. It sounds like bearings. It's making a horrible screechy rumbling noise and losing its power. The saw was given to me a couple of years ago by an elderly gent and he bought it from B&Q. So it hasn't done too bad considering I've given it some heavy duty ripping.

I've just replied to an ad on Gumtree - an SIP 3.3hp 315mm blade £150 in excellent condition.

 

[AndyP]

I had a problem that sounded like bearings on my Kity 419. I was horrified. On closer inspection I found that the cooling fan on the end of the motor shaft had slipped and was rubbing on the cowling. Very easy to fix IIRC.

Here is the the fan on the end of the motor, you can see the blade tips are damaged where they were running against the cowling.



Have you had a look at yours?

 

[Pinch]

Cheers Andy and thanks for posting that. I'll have a look at mine - fingers crossed.

I did get under it last Friday with a torch and I couldn't see anything obvious. With the saw unplugged, I rotated the blade and it felt very sort of grumbly, or gritty, but big grits if you know what I mean.

 

[9fingers]

If it is a brush motor powered saw it will have a reduction gear enclosed on the end of the motor. These tiny gears go through a real pounding as the motor possibly runs at 10kRPM or faster.
Often a tooth get shed and mashed in the works.
Motor replacements are normally so dear that they normally end up in the bin.

The SIP should be a much better proposition being induction motor powered.

3.3hp will need a 16amp supply with a type C Breaker (unless it is 3 phase) but so much better and worth the work.

Bob

 

[Pinch]

Cheers Bob, I'm going to see the SIP tomorrow afternoon.

 

[Pinch]

I popped into the shop to double check my little TS and it's definitely had it, so I drove to see the SIP last night and bought it for £120. The chap is a GP and he's owned the saw from new and in the last 4 years, it's had very little use. He's also selling a large SIP chop saw (01470) which I have also bought for £50 - picking this up next week. In addition to that, there's a bench, but I don't need this. If there's anyone local who wants this, let me know.

Here's the table saw and bits.

And the large chop saw.

I must say, I'm rather chuffed with this purchase - £170

:text-bravo:

 

[AndyP]

Nice one Paul, well done.

 

[Rod]

Chop saw and stand for £50 - what a steal!
Well done

Rod

 

[Mike G]

I'm curious, Paul, as a non-tablesaw owner. Is that really man enough for you, a professional furniture maker? That looks a bit of a tiddler.......dare I say it, even a bit DIY. I see that you buy PAR timber, so you don't need it much for ripping, so is it just for slicing up sheet material and veneer, and for doing the odd rebate?

 

[Pinch]

Nice one Paul, well done.

Cheers Andy. I started to instal the saw yesterday - quite a job. I'll finish it today and post up th pictures.

 

[Pinch]

Chop saw and stand for £50 - what a steal!
Well done

Rod

Cheers Rod, although sadly not the stand. The £50 was for the saw only. I don't suppose he'll want much for the stand and I would like it, I just don't have the room for it in the shop. It would be handy for the roof job I'm going to start soon. :eusa-think:

 

[Pinch]

I'm curious, Paul, as a non-tablesaw owner. Is that really man enough for you, a professional furniture maker? That looks a bit of a tiddler.......dare I say it, even a bit DIY. I see that you buy PAR timber, so you don't need it much for ripping, so is it just for slicing up sheet material and veneer, and for doing the odd rebate?

Cheers Mike. I think this SIP machine is either heavy duty DIY or light work for the trade, although it is classified for the professional. I don't need anything too heavy duty and this TS is 3.3hp with a 310mm dia blade, which should be more than adequate for me. It all feels good, solid and very heavy.

My last TS (which was 100% DIY) was given to me and the heaviest use I gave it was carefully ripping down some 80mm sq seasoned oak. Although it wasn't totally in its comfort zone, it did the job successfully. The old TS isn't a patch on the SIP. I guess time will tell, but the old one gave me over two years service before going into retirement, so hopefully, all going well, the SIP should last me quite a few years.

Yes, its main use will be ripping down small'ish profiles as and when (up to 60mm thick maybe), splayed cuts, rebates (sometimes use the router depending on size of rebate), man-made boards, veneers etc...

 

[Pinch]

I finished off installing the table saw today - bit quirky, but you know me - a quirky dude.

Here's the little old TS still in its place - she served me well.

And here's Miss SIPPY waiting to get in there! Slightly on the larger size to her predecessor. Hmmm, that could go somewhere, but fear not, I am behaving myself.

And now all in and operational.

Yes, I know, I have removed the riving knife and top guard, but I need them gone so when not in use, the whole bench is usable with no obstacles.

Old dusty bin is behind the MDF board to the right of the saw and is easily accessable round the corner. I'm also going to add a double socket off the ring main to the MDF board.

Back on the sailing vessel tomorrow.

 

[Pinch]

Back on the job.

I don’t know where this morning went and I wanted to get all the veneer cut in before the end of the day. It was now almost lunchtime and so I started to prepare the veneer leaves for ripping down to 38mm strips.

Firstly, I taped an edge with masking tape so I could create a face edge on the opposite edge using the new Toby Slater. This was only to remove a few millimetres.

And here's a new face edge.

Now, I could set up the saw fence to 38mm which will give me my veneer strips. I used a piece of oak on the veneers while cutting to prevent any kick-backs or splintering - a bit precarious I know, but it works.

And here are a bunch of mahogany strips at 38mm.

A quick bite to eat with a cup of Yorkshire’s finest tea, and then off to site.

Here are a couple of shots of the stern after a final sand down.

To get going with the veneer work, I firstly marked a vertical centre line and then a perimeter guideline 50mm back from the stern’s edge.

I then cut my first veneer strip and temporarily tacked it into place. Here’s the top edge nicely tucked under the decking.

As I continued to cut and tack, I pre marked for the cut-outs in the stern’s ply and later transferred the lines onto the veneer. I shall cut these a couple of millimetres within the line when I remove the strips for gluing.

Earlier in this thread, Mike made an interesting point about bending laths in more than one direction at the same time. In this case, we’re looking at bending a veneer strip along the thickness which is approximately 2.4mm – no probs. But, we also need to bend it across the width which is 38mm, and at the same time – bit of an issue. What will happen, is the material will naturally form a kink due to the simultaneous forces working in opposite directions. Also, the wider the lath or strip, the harder it’s going to be to do with minimal kink or distortion. Which is why these strips are 38mm for these curves, and although the forces are going on, it’s just about doable without any major distortion.

This next series of pictures illustrates exactly that. But of course, I’m only tacking this dry today. Tomorrow, I shall remove all the pieces, cut everything as marked and then glue it all down, working and tacking all the minor distortions home so it’s all nice and comfy.

Here’s half done.

And now the other half.

In the first picture, you can just about see where I’ve marked the perimeter line onto the veneer which I did using the compass.

By 4pm, I'd had enough, and although I didn't get it all done, I was pleased with what I had done.

Report back tomorrow.

Cheers,

 

[Rod]

Looking good - weather forecast not too brilliant - will the temps effect the gluing time?

Rod

 

[Pinch]

Cheers Rod.

Oh is it - I was hoping to take Betty The Beemer out tomorrow. :|

No if anything, the damp weather will give me more working time with the glue, but, the veneer already started to curl slightly today, due to the damp weather.

Although it didn't stop raining today, I really enjoyed the veneer work on the boat. It was good old fashion woodwork - tenon saw & pin hammer and no machines.

 

[Pinch]

I worked on the boat project today and before removing all the veneer strips, I labelled them in numerical order and also labelled pieces nos 5 & 20 on the decking as these were my first pieces to glue for each side.

I then made all my cuts from previously marked when dry tacked and started to glue and tack these back onto the stern's new ply clad. Here's about 60% done and you can also see the perimeter's line is ready for the edging veneer.

And here's the stern now veneered. I cut in the edging veneers after the strips were fixed. The perimeter cuts were always going to be roughly accurate. I then marked up the edgings from the perimeter cuts using a compass and then cut the edgings (using a tenon and coping saw) close to the lines and used the edgings as a template to tidy up the perimeter cuts with a sharp chisel - if that makes sense.

Anyway, here are all 59 pieces of veneer now glued onto the stern.

Nice sweep...

I shall back on this job Thursday to finish off, including a tidy up of all the cut-outs & edging pieces and a good sand down..

Cheers,

 

[Mike G]

It's a hedgehog! Don't forget to take your pincers with you next time you go...