Wadkin RT Lathe restoration

[wallace]

Its been ages since I did a machine and I was starting to get withdrawl. This is an oddball little lathe. It has an aluminium headstock which sits on top of the bed it houses the motor as well. It shares the same tail stock and tool rest as its big brother the RS. I stripped the head stock/motor down.

Inside the motor was in really good condition

 

[Robert]

Difficult to work out exactly what I'm looking at here but I don't doubt it is going to be fascinating again
Was the chuck mounted direct on the motor shaft?

 

[wallace]

Yes the motor shaft takes the faceplate/chuck and has a morse tapered whole for centres

 

[Rob]

what do you do with your beautiful restorations Wallace? Do you sell them on at the end?

 

[DaveL]

So does that switch give a number of speed options? Must be a nightmare with all those wires.

 

[wallace]

Rob I usually keep the restorations I do, but this one is just for fun and maybe make a little money for my machinery fund
Dave the lathe has a slow and fast speed, the electrickery bit is not my strongpoint so I just take lots of photos and lable stuff and hope the person who had it before me didn't tinker with the wiring.

A little bit more done today, I cleaned the bearings of the old grease and they look to be in good condition. The bearings were of coarse british made self aligning and still good after 70 years.

I found a stencilled No.4 underneath the green paint. I've seen that on a few wadkin machines now

I sanded the raised letters flat and tidied them up with a dremmel

When I've got the motor together I want to bench test it. It has 6 wires coming out of the windings A2,A3 B2,B3 C2,C3 do I connect three wires together and the remaining three for the power?

 

[TrimTheKing]

Excellent, I love these old rest projects. Makes me pine for the days I will have the time (and hopefully the luck) to find and do one.

Cheers
Mark

 

[9fingers]

When I've got the motor together I want to bench test it. It has 6 wires coming out of the windings A2,A3 B2,B3 C2,C3 do I connect three wires together and the remaining three for the power?

Oh Dear! How were they connected before you stared pulling it apart? I'm sure you paid attention to this!!

There are several options to try and work out.

Firstly can you measure any continuity between a2 and a3?

Secondly can you measure any continuity between a2 and b2 and c2?

Thirdly can you measure any continuity between a3 and b3 and c3?

Bob

 

[wallace]

Great Bob to the rescue, yes I labled everything and you can see on the three way switch that its all written in white and corresponds to the little brass tag on each wire. I will check the continuity

 

[9fingers]

Good to hear it is all documented - apologies for suggesting otherwise.

I've just been working with a very old (1930s we think) motor with 5 connections which I'd never seen before.
I emailed the chap saying to preserve all the wiring until I could go and see it to work out what was likely to be happening as it was blowing fuses. When I got there he had cut through all the wires (all of them the same colour) because he wanted to get on with the rest of the job (mechanical)
It was very frustrating but after quite a bit of unnecessary work, I have got him up and running again but I did curse him under my breath!!

The best way to test it will be to wire it back to the switch and in that way you can test both speeds.

Older 2 speed motors tend to have two independent sets of windings (usually star connected) like two motors in one really. Newer ones use a series parallel connection of all windings to create extra poles for the lower speed.

I have an 8 speed (2 gears) drill press from the early 50s which has a 4 speed motor with 4 sets of independent windings and a very complex switch to control it. So far it has worked perfectly - I'm not looking forward to having to delve inside as the insulation on the wiring will be bound to be fragile.

 

[wallace]

Hi Bob, I have just checked the continuity between wires. And they all have continuity to each other :?

 

[9fingers]

Hi Bob, I have just checked the continuity between wires. And they all have continuity to each other :?

Hmm! I'd have expected that all the *2 to be connected and all the *3 to be connected but not necessarily to each other. Seems that If I have the correct topology for the windings, the two star points are connected. No reason why they should not be but again no electrical reason to connect them either.

We could try and work out what is going on but quite hard work by remote control so....

Plan B wire them back to the switch as originally supplied, earth the motor body and the switch body and test run the motor that way.

Good luck

Bob

 

[wallace]

I put the motor back together/greased bearings and wired everything up on the bench and it ran, really smooth as well.

 

[9fingers]

I put the motor back together/greased bearings and wired everything up on the bench and it ran, really smooth as well.

Excellent news Mark,

Lets hope the rest of the renovations go well. Any nasties there or is it mainly wash & brush up and coats of paint?

Cheers

Bob

 

[furnman]

Mark, great to see your restorations as usual, I would be very interested in you covering your painting methods that you do on your restorations, you always seem to skip over this bit. I am doing the prep for painting on my rs at the moment, its a long boring job.

thanks mark.

 

[wallace]

For prep I either clean the part with a flapper disc to remove any imperfections or use car bodge. Its a lot of work if you go from bare cast iron
After degreasing everything I got ready for some primer. I use a zinc primer to inhibit rust and a few coats of machinery enamel. The colour I use is RAL 7011 and then I get the paint guy to retard the shine a bit so when it dries its not too glossy

And of coarse a decent mask, Does anyone know how long a charcoal filter can be kept for. I only use it for spraying and then keep it in a bag.

And then the enamel topcoat

I started to clean the bed

 

[AndyP]

I enjoy following these restoration threads too. Excellant stuff.

 

[furnman]

Mark thanks for that, I understand they do such a thing as "semi gloss" have you ever tried that ?. I also thought you used red oxide primer over everything first including the inside. I have just started looking into paint on my RS and its hard to make up my mind from the single pack machine enamel or the pu two pack systems which are harder but I wonder they will chip. How durable do you find the machine enamel in use ?
Thanks Mark

 

[wallace]

I haven't tried semi gloss I just get the paint guy to mix the paint with less shine. I have some colours in full gloss enamel and then full matt enamel then I can mix my own desired shininess. Wadkin used a lot of red oxide for internal stuff. The good thing about using enamel is that you can prime and give multiple topcoats in one day and then handle it the next day. One problem I've found is when it gets a ding it chips down to the primer. Maybe you should look into DTM direct to metal, I understand the curing time is along time but it is less likely to chip it knocked. That's what Jack uses and the finish is nice.

 

[kirkpoore1]

Looks nicely done so far, though I'm not a fan of gray (even as a reproduction of an original color).

I've heard that a charcoal cartridge will be good until you can smell the fumes through it. At least that will give you something to start with.

Kirk

 

[wallace]

Thanks Kirk
Heres the tailstock and banjo, they look rough but their in really nice condition

Started to prep ready for paint

Made some bits shiny

I cleaned up the handwheel, I don't know why but the wheel feels really light even for ali. Can you get different weights/types of ali?

 

[wallace]

Put the handwheel on the lathe to get rid of any dings and then polished



Then sprayed with black enamel



Then I sprayed the rest of the bitts

 

[Rod]

Looking good.

I suppose different aluminium alloys weigh differently?

Rod

 

[9fingers]

Looking good.

I suppose different aluminium alloys weigh differently?

Rod

Not much variation really. Pure aluminium density starts at about 2.7 and most things added into alloys are heavier which takes you up to about 2.85. so that's about 5-6% variation
Way-out alloys like aluminium bronze must be around 7-8 but that is only has about 5% aluminium.

Bob

 

[Robert]

Magnesium alloy for the handwheel?

Can't beat seeing red rusty bits become shiny

 

[wallace]

Well very nearly finished, I got it all wired up, I need to make some handles for the brake and the speed selector

 

[TrimTheKing]

Very nice, as good as new! :eusa-clap:

Cheers
Mark

 

[Rob]

It would seem appropriate to turn the handles??

 

[DaveL]

I love the fast or slow switch.

 

[AndyP]

Is that fast slow switch variable speed as well? Looks odd to be having the Off position half way between the two.

 

[wallace]

Andy I was hoping it was some kind of variable speed, wadkin did have an early variable speed lathe. The handle is a bit weird, it freely moves on the shaft without altering the setting. You have put a rod down the handle into a whole/detent and then move the handle to change the setting. Plus you cant go from slow to fast it just switches off, you have to restart from the on/off

 

[9fingers]

Andy I was hoping it was some kind of variable speed, wadkin did have an early variable speed lathe. The handle is a bit weird, it freely moves on the shaft without altering the setting. You have put a rod down the handle into a whole/detent and then move the handle to change the setting. Plus you cant go from slow to fast it just switches off, you have to restart from the on/off

I think this is all deliberate to makes sure the huge currents that would flow with an "instant" speed transition are minimised. Bear in mind that the un powered winding is acting as a generator at 1/2 or double the mains frequency depend on which winding is powered at the time.

For variable speed, an inverter will be needed.

Bob

 

[tracerman]

Wallace - proper job . I love these restorations . Anything else in the pipeline ?

Steve

 

[wallace]

Yes Steve I have just acquired a very early RS lathe.

 

[wallace]

Well its finished, not bad going 9 days. I think I put a good 35 hrs into it.

 

[furnman]

great job mark. :eusa-clap:

 

[tracerman]

Wallace , truly inspiring . Looking forward to the next one . Well done .

Steve

 

[Wozajazzer]

Hi Wallace,

real novice here, just joined, just (semi) retired and about to embark on a Wadkin RT Lathe restoration. Your’s looks fabulous. Mine’s an ex school workshop machine that last ran about 7 yrs ago, up til then routinely maintained so I’m hopeful I can handle this restore. Do you have any suggestions on where to find parts?

I’d really appreciate any advice.

Cheers

Tony

 

[Deejay]

Morning Wallace

I can't see your pictures at the moment.

Most are shown as 'Unavailable' by roomeo and some have a watermark from photobucket.

Any idea why this is happening?

Cheers

Dave

 

[wallace]

Hi Wallace,

real novice here, just joined, just (semi) retired and about to embark on a Wadkin RT Lathe restoration. Your’s looks fabulous. Mine’s an ex school workshop machine that last ran about 7 yrs ago, up til then routinely maintained so I’m hopeful I can handle this restore. Do you have any suggestions on where to find parts?

I’d really appreciate any advice.

Cheers

Tony

Parts will be pretty non existent apart from what shows up on ebay, The tail stock is the same as an RS just without the facilty to do off centre turning. The spindle thread is the same as the RS 1 3,8ths by 6tpi. The taper is the same also morse 2.
I've still got a RT that needs restoring some where.

The picks are gone or watermarked because they both wanted money to host them