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Rebate with spindle molder or benchsaw

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tony.w

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I am making a window which i have done before useing table saw for rebating however this was for the workshop but this time i am making them for the house and want them the best i can get so i was going to use the table saw to rebate then finish with rebating head on spindle molder, i need a grooving blade for the AQ21 draught excluder so i was thinking can and should i used the grooving blade to cut the rebate as well on the spindle molder, i have never tried it before but the both bores on table saw and molder are 30mm so assuming i have the spacers to lock it onto the molder shaft just use the table saw blade for rebating & grooving.
 
Tony, I’ve used saw blades on the spindle moulder to cut out rebate/glass bead. Just be careful on the final cut as like on the table saw the off cut can be prone to kickback.
 
Thanks for your reply, perhaps try it on a bit of waste i will leave final pass for the rebate block.
 
often the final pass has a capillary drip or a euro groove, so a must in my case.
 
A rebate block is what is normally used for rebates on a spindle moulder, it will leave a clean cut.

The AQ21 can be put in a groove but it is better if put in a double groove so the flipper can sit flush with the frame as below:

AQ21.JPG


Axminster tools sell the cutter for £80.

If you have a spindle moulder a rebate block is a very good investment. As an alternative you can use a staight cutter to cut the rebate but before you make the cut score the rebate line with a marking gauge so you do not get breakout.
 
Do you absolutely need to use AQ21? I would prefer to use AQ124, that way you can overcut the depth of the rebate by 7mm (so a 22mm or so cut for a 15mm rebate) using the saw blade, and then either rebate the rest out if you have a rebate block or rip it off with the saw blade. You can also use a 140mm blade (available from Whitehill) and a 125mm rebate block in unison to produce the cut in one pass if your moulder is powerful enough, this would save a significant amount of time if you have a lot of windows to produce.
 
If (when) I make more windows I intend to do as Trevanion states. I concluded a while ago that AQ124 solves a few problems. First it is a better seal. Second it gives you some wiggle room in fitting the casements as AQ124 allows more tolerance than AQ21 and as stated it speeds up the manufacture.
 
PAC1 said:
If (when) I make more windows I intend to do as Trevanion states. I concluded a while ago that AQ124 solves a few problems. First it is a better seal. Second it gives you some wiggle room in fitting the casements as AQ124 allows more tolerance than AQ21 and as stated it speeds up the manufacture.
Click to expand...
It looks like it does the same job to me except you do not need a second groove. It looks like you would need a slightly deeper rebate than AQ21 to accomodate the seal... Interesting the comment about less time needed and would fit in with what the OP has at hand.
 
meccarroll said:
A rebate block is what is normally used for rebates on a spindle moulder, it will leave a clean cut.

The AQ21 can be put in a groove but it is better if put in a double groove so the flipper can sit flush with the frame as below:

View attachment 32134


Axminster tools sell the cutter for £80.

If you have a spindle moulder a rebate block is a very good investment. As an alternative you can use a staight cutter to cut the rebate but before you make the cut score the rebate line with a marking gauge so you do not get breakout.
Click to expand...
I do have a Whitehill rebate block or Omas (can't remeber) with combined scribes i just really wanted to maybe use the cut rebate for other things rather than turn the waste into wood chips
 
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Trevanion said:
Do you absolutely need to use AQ21? I would prefer to use AQ124, that way you can overcut the depth of the rebate by 7mm (so a 22mm or so cut for a 15mm rebate) using the saw blade, and then either rebate the rest out if you have a rebate block or rip it off with the saw blade. You can also use a 140mm blade (available from Whitehill) and a 125mm rebate block in unison to produce the cut in one pass if your moulder is powerful enough, this would save a significant amount of time if you have a lot of windows to produce.
Click to expand...
No I do not need to go with AQ21 so thats easily rectified and what you say makes perfect sense, I am only making my own windows so no rush it took me a while to choose the material which in the end i went for oak so i'd rather take my time and of course enjoy what i'm doing.
Thanks for your valued info it pays to run your thoughts of methods on here
 
hi tony, It sounds like a solid plan to use the spindle molder for a cleaner finish after the table saw. If your grooving blade fits securely on the spindle molder with the right spacers and locking mechanism, it should work, but keep in mind that spindle molders operate at different speeds than table saws. Make sure the blade is rated for the spindle molder's RPM to avoid any safety issues or poor cuts. You might also get a cleaner result using a dedicated grooving cutter designed for spindle molders. Have you tested it on scrap wood first?
 
No not yet, i am trying to get beyond squaring up the lumber but issues with planer blades. I will get there
 
carterluke said:
..... If your grooving blade fits securely on the spindle molder with the right spacers and locking mechanism, it should work, but keep in mind that spindle molders operate at different speeds than table saws.
Click to expand...
That's rather a strange phrase ....fits securely...can you explain a little by what you mean by that ? Also, not sure what point you're trying to make re the fact that spindle moulders operate at different speeds. So what ?
carterluke said:
Make sure the blade is rated for the spindle molder's RPM to avoid any safety issues or poor cuts.
Click to expand...
Anyone professing to know all about spindle moulders would know that they have adjustable speeds.
carterluke said:
You might also get a cleaner result using a dedicated grooving cutter designed for spindle molders.
Click to expand...
You mention 'grooving blade' and also 'grooving cutter'. Can you enlighten us as to the differentiation? Thank you.
 
Am i missing somthing here? have folk got my back and i'm blindsided? AI ? some starnge stuff been televised at the mo from across the pond, Don't know .... watching with intrigue
 
Following a great suggestion which makes sense i was going to ditch AQ21 draught seal and use the AQ124 however setting out timbers i think i will struggle with the two mullions, reason being 64mm width of timber mullions then following rebates each being 15mm either side leaves 34mm then to add 7mm groove either side weakens outer edge to a mear 20mm to the outer edge of the mullion (if this makes sense) perhaps i will end up useing AQ21 where the grooving will not effect the timber strenght that much
 
Please ignore my last post, I was tired had a beer or two I don't think I was thinking straight 😕
 
tony.w said:
Following a great suggestion which makes sense i was going to ditch AQ21 draught seal and use the AQ124 however setting out timbers i think i will struggle with the two mullions, reason being 64mm width of timber mullions then following rebates each being 15mm either side leaves 34mm then to add 7mm groove either side weakens outer edge to a mear 20mm to the outer edge of the mullion (if this makes sense) perhaps i will end up useing AQ21 where the grooving will not effect the timber strenght that much
Click to expand...

That is one downside to the AQ124 is that it does weaken transomes and mullions because they do get a bit thin where the draught seal grooves are, though I've never had any issue with it in windows because they're not usually subject to extreme stress though I wouldn't want to do anything under 60mm or so in thickness, after that I would be using the AQ21 instead.

Whitehill's own window systems get to around 25mm left between the two grooves.
 
Been out in the sunshine all day so first chance i have had to get on here, ah right i was correct in my first thoughts thankyou Trevanion again for your class knowledge.
 
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