Bit of emergency plumbing...

[Robert]

The central heating pump had been getting a bit noisy so time for a simple swap out. Screwfix had sent me a voucher so I already had the new pump ready - Grundfos UPS3. Early last week Mrs was out for half a day so good time to get it done. Strip the boiler cupboard out and attempt to turn off the pump valves. One moves a little and will probably turn off, the other one will not budge. Grr drain down needed. It can wait for another time.

Fast forward to thursday night... tidy kitchen before bed... water on top of the bins under the boiler. Strip the cupboard out again and sure enough the valve that moved a little is dripping. I thought maybe turn it a bit and it might settle and stop dripping. bad idea as the drip turned into a spray. rags..tin foil gutter... bucket..go turn off supply to header tank in the loft. drain the system no heating in the morning...sleep.

Friday its gas fire and fan heater and find out where I can get plumbing parts and it turns out no one local has everything. reading reviews on pump valves like you do I discover the ones like the old valves are rubbish. better quality are longer bodied.

looking at the old pipes it is all joiners and no pipe so can't fit longer valves easy

So not just replace re-plumb as well. Getting the old pump out was so awkward with the cabinet top at the same level and a foot from the ceiling.

After a good part of Friday and some cursing

The heating is working better now. It just stays on where it used to drop into low power because the temperature rise was too fast.

I tried to get 'Pegler' pump valves but out of stock for collection everywhere so ended up with 'Perfect Pump Valves' from Toolstation. Have to say they looked very well made. Felt like stainless but may have just been nickel plated brass.

 

[Lurker]

After an argument with a stop valve (when I was a young bloke), I made it a habit to go round the house one day every summer and turn every valve off and on again.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I replaced my pump with exactly the same model a little while ago. The various 'intelligent' modes are useful. Seems quieter and better controlled.

I assumed the pump valves would not work and drained down the CH, I was fitting a new DHW cylinder and a replacement rad anyway. But of course the other isolator for the cold feed to the cylinder failed. Ended up reaching down inside the header tank in the loft and shoving an old wine cork up the outlet pipe. Did the job. IME, the chances of an isolator working vs leaking all over the place if even looked at in a harsh way is about 50:50. General rule of plumbing - don't touch anything without a complete set of spares to hand !

It was a very long day. You have my sympathy.

 

[Woodbloke]

We've always had a BG Homecare agreement which covers all that sort of malarky. If there's anything broken or suspicious, it gets sorted out on the day when we have the annual inspection. To date, we've had (iIrc) a couple of ch pumps - Rob

 

[Harv-53]

General rule of plumbing - don't touch anything without a complete set of spares to hand !

I can totally relate to this rule, many years ago on a Christmas Eve we had a new washing machine delivered, having been without a working washing machine for 5 or 6 days, my wife was extremely double enthusiastic that I plumb it in,( this was about 6.30 pm) ohh what joy to discover the isolation valve immediately sprung a leak as I turned it off, full on jet of water from the tap thingy. Turn water off at stop cock.. that stoped the leak but left us with no running water. I had a old rad valve which I fitted to the supply pipe to the machine which enabled us to have running water again.
Moral of this is DONT LISTEN TO THE WIFE.
Real Moral is be very prepared, I have a good collection of plumbing bits to hand for stuff I’m capable of repairing or replacing.

 

[Mike G]

God, I hate plumbing. I mean, I do it.....but that sort of nightmare is why I hate it.

Just to add to the "Rules of Thumb".......Pro plumbers won't ever (in my experience) fill a system on a Friday. They know full well how often that would lead to them working on a Saturday.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

That is because the majority of pro plumbers seem fairly useless. One of my friends asked on WhatsApp if anyone could recommend a good plumber, and got a chorus of "No !".

 

[Robert]

The only time I've ever used a plumber was a gas safe one to install the boiler...and he was the one that left it with all those couplers and no pipe.

I do know I'm getting older doing this stuff now. Takes me longer and nuts seem a lot tighter than they used to when you try to undo them. Ended up using hand strength to pull spanner to mole wrench rather than arms above and below that cabinet top. Weak old man now

 

[Cabinetman]

I can do simple plumbing but it never seems guaranteed that something won’t leak, Soldered joints not really a problem, it’s the compression ones I have problems with, you can do the same joint 10 times and one will leak, They say don’t overtighten so that’s okay but when it leaks you have to tighten it up a bit more and it doesn’t always work. And when you have finished and tested and it’s all dry how do you know it won’t start dripping when you turn your back on it. Give me woodwork any day! My sympathies on your calamities gentleman.

 

[AndyP]

Over here thicker walled pipe is used and brazing joints is the norm. Rather gets me off the hook. I change the odd tap but thats all.
Oh and no central heating makes things easier too.

 

[Robert]

Back in the day compression fittings used to just work and not leak. Now I always wipe the joints and threads with stuff called 'True Blue'. It is a PTFE jointing compound that seals reliably and lubricates threads so the nuts do up without that creaking noise of threads binding. never had one leak since I started using it.

 

[Doug]

Next time you drain down it would be a good idea to remove that chrome ball-a-fix isolation valve on the 15mm pipe to the right in your photo, that no doubt will leak in time from the screwdriver slot spindle.

 

[Pete Maddex]

One xmas eve just after 12:00 I was walking up stairs and I noticed a damp patch on the wall below the airing cupboard I had a look inside, one of the valves was leaking so I grabbed the grips and tighten it which made the leak even worse. So while the wife held a bucket under it I raced around to drain the system. Once I got the valve out I found the washers where knackered, so there I am Xmas eve in the garage looking at the pump and valve thinking how much an emergency plumber would cost when my eye alighted on the wife's wellys, suddenly two washers appeared!
They lasted years untill the pump went and I treated it to a new pair of valves.

Pete

 

[Robert]

Next time you drain down it would be a good idea to remove that chrome ball-a-fix isolation valve on the 15mm pipe to the right in your photo, that no doubt will leak in time from the screwdriver slot spindle.

I only just fitted it!

Maybe I'm lucky but I use those things a lot when I do some plumbing. Makes it easy to isolate areas, taps etc. To date I've never had one fail on me. In this case it is the drain cock for the pipes above the boiler and the pipe under it is just for putting a hose on. There is another drain off point piped straight to an outside drain via a full bore isolator to drain the system fast.

 

[RogerS]

One xmas eve just after 12:00 I was walking up stairs and I noticed a damp patch on the wall below the airing cupboard I had a look inside, one of the valves was leaking so I grabbed the grips and tighten it which made the leak even worse. So while the wife held a bucket under it I raced around to drain the system. Once I got the valve out I found the washers where knackered, so there I am Xmas eve in the garage looking at the pump and valve thinking how much an emergency plumber would cost when my eye alighted on the wife's wellys, suddenly two washers appeared!
They lasted years untill the pump went and I treated it to a new pair of valves.

Pete

But was your wife impressed with leaky wellies ?

 

[chataigner]

I sympathise Robert. Hate plumbing !!!
My similar experience when replacing a knackered pump involved moving one of the valves as the new pump was shorter between flanges than the old one. Must have been a dinosaur to not be to current standard, but there you go. All in large bore steel pipe too, not my favourite weekend. :x :x

 

[Pete Maddex]

One xmas eve just after 12:00 I was walking up stairs and I noticed a damp patch on the wall below the airing cupboard I had a look inside, one of the valves was leaking so I grabbed the grips and tighten it which made the leak even worse. So while the wife held a bucket under it I raced around to drain the system. Once I got the valve out I found the washers where knackered, so there I am Xmas eve in the garage looking at the pump and valve thinking how much an emergency plumber would cost when my eye alighted on the wife's wellys, suddenly two washers appeared!
They lasted years untill the pump went and I treated it to a new pair of valves.

Pete

But was your wife impressed with leaky wellies ?

I said they where speed holes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whnms4CLJys

Pete

 

[Doug]

One xmas eve just after 12:00 I was walking up stairs and I noticed a damp patch on the wall below the airing cupboard I had a look inside, one of the valves was leaking so I grabbed the grips and tighten it which made the leak even worse. So while the wife held a bucket under it I raced around to drain the system. Once I got the valve out I found the washers where knackered, so there I am Xmas eve in the garage looking at the pump and valve thinking how much an emergency plumber would cost when my eye alighted on the wife's wellys, suddenly two washers appeared!
They lasted years untill the pump went and I treated it to a new pair of valves.

Pete

But was your wife impressed with leaky wellies ?

I said they where speed holes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whnms4CLJys

You should have advertised them on EBay as croc wellies Pete

Pete

 

[TrimTheKing]

Next time you drain down it would be a good idea to remove that chrome ball-a-fix isolation valve on the 15mm pipe to the right in your photo, that no doubt will leak in time from the screwdriver slot spindle.

I only just fitted it!

Maybe I'm lucky but I use those things a lot when I do some plumbing. Makes it easy to isolate areas, taps etc. To date I've never had one fail on me. In this case it is the drain cock for the pipes above the boiler and the pipe under it is just for putting a hose on. There is another drain off point piped straight to an outside drain via a full bore isolator to drain the system fast.

You're lucky then. I've turned the screw on about 10 of those in this house over the past 12 years for various reasons and at least 4, maybe 5 have either leaked from the screw immediately, or in two cases the screw completely crumbled under the screwdriver!

The plumbing job I've just done under the downstairs WC sink has 2 for the taps, both sound at full flor but leak as soon as I turn them to isolate the taps! Next weekend's job, as well as finishing making good, is to turn off the water to replace them with better quality iso valves. :eusa-doh:

 

[RogerS]

Next time you drain down it would be a good idea to remove that chrome ball-a-fix isolation valve on the 15mm pipe to the right in your photo, that no doubt will leak in time from the screwdriver slot spindle.

I only just fitted it!

Maybe I'm lucky but I use those things a lot when I do some plumbing. Makes it easy to isolate areas, taps etc. To date I've never had one fail on me. In this case it is the drain cock for the pipes above the boiler and the pipe under it is just for putting a hose on. There is another drain off point piped straight to an outside drain via a full bore isolator to drain the system fast.

You're lucky then. I've turned the screw on about 10 of those in this house over the past 12 years for various reasons and at least 4, maybe 5 have either leaked from the screw immediately, or in two cases the screw completely crumbled under the screwdriver!

The plumbing job I've just done under the downstairs WC sink has 2 for the taps, both sound at full flor but leak as soon as I turn them to isolate the taps! Next weekend's job, as well as finishing making good, is to turn off the water to replace them with better quality iso valves. :eusa-doh:

Isn't it a question of simply cycling them once a year to keep them working OK ?

 

[novocaine]

The seals aren't washed so the dry out. Not helped by hard water scale on the edges of the ball that rip them as they pass.

Cant say i have an issue with them and use them fairly routinely on water systems. Rarely use them on central heating for anything other than temporary stops though as they restrict flow.
They are recommended for tap stops.

 

[Doug]

This is a typical example of a ballofix style isolation valve fitted to a central heating system, it’s pointless trying to turn it as it will leak up the spindle as sure as eggs is eggs



That is typical of what I find, I very much doubt they are designed for water with corrosion inhibitor in it. Pump valves of the same design are notorious for leaking, far better with the gate valve style which if the system has inhibitor in shouldn’t scale up & fail like they can on domestic hot water systems.

 

[TrimTheKing]

This is a typical example of a ballofix style isolation valve fitted to a central heating system, it’s pointless trying to turn it as it will leak up the spindle as sure as eggs is eggs



That is typical of what I find, I very much doubt they are designed for water with corrosion inhibitor in it. Pump valves of the same design are notorious for leaking, far better with the gate valve style which if the system has inhibitor in shouldn’t scale up & fail like they can on domestic hot water systems.

Which are the 'gate valve' style Doug? For future reference as I'm sure I will be replacing some sooner or later as our water is quite scaly...

 

[Doug]

Are you talking about pump valves, valves for central heating or domestic water Mark

 

[TrimTheKing]

Just isolation valves generally on either/both.

 

[clogs]

modern Gate valves are not so good anymore.....
I only use ball valves.....there are 2 sorts....stainless balls or plated.....
u have to ask.....