Bread machine missing flour

[Chris152]

We've had the machine many years, no problems. But lately it's started missing some of the flour when mixing, leaving it in corners and spoiling loaves - the last straw was last night, mixing pizza dough, I had to pull clods of flour from the mixed dough and ended up with under-size pizzas! Terrible.
Everything is the same as it ever was, same flour, same temp water, same sequence, but it's now consistently going wrong. Any ideas what it could be? The machine must be 25 years old.
Alternatively, any recommendations for a new machine up to about £100? Searching the net, I see they now make jam, yogurt and other things, but I'm not really interested in that.
Thanks for any thoughts.
Chris

 

[Pete Maddex]

It can only be a problem with the mixing paddle the motor driving it or the controller.
You will have to watch it while it works to see if at some point it stops or doesn't change direction.

Personally replacement would be my recommendation.

Pete

 

[AndyT]

Feel how free the mixing paddle is to rotate. Ours sometimes feels stiff when I take a loaf out but some manual twiddling frees it up.
If it is stiff and won't free up, you might need to open up the "maintenance free" seal at the bottom of the pan and get some lubrication in there, or, indeed replace.

 

[9fingers]

Maybe the pan has lost some of it’s nonstick coating over time and allowing flour to build up in the corners?

Bob

 

[novocaine]

Sounds kike the paddle motors kaput. Isnt turning with the same speed and force it once was so isnt moving the dough ball around quick enough to reach the corners.

 

[Chris152]

Thanks chaps.
I can confirm most of the above are at issue - the paddle gets really stiff sometimes (tho it's done that for a long time) and some of the non-stick seems to be at least less functional - lately loaves have been refusing to leave the pan, and to release them I've had to slip a knife down the sides which has also scarred the non-stick material. And, when in mixing mode, it often makes an annoying squeaking noise throughout.

All fixable I guess, apart from the non-stick material, which bothers me now I've written it down. Time for a new machine. Can anyone recommend based on their experience? A straight forward, reliable one that makes decent size loaves (bread disappears pretty quickly in my house), and that browns ok?

eta - I've researched online but seem to get caught on the price escalator, thinking about machines costing toward £200 and which do things I don't really want at all. Just a solid, reliable bread maker.
This one's top of my maybe list at the moment: Panasonic SD-2501WXC Automated 25 Mode Breadmaker
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-Auto ... HJ1ZQ&th=1 (original version)

 

[9fingers]

The Panasonics certainly used to be the mutts nuts but after buying ours I’ve not really looked at reviews
Our paddle bearing got very tight but I turned the pan bottom up and put a few drops of veg oil on the end of the shaft and let it soak in and repeated a few time and it is nice a free again

You might be luck and still be able to get a replacement pan if the non stick is fubar.

Bob

 

[Pete Maddex]

I guess pans are consumable items so should be available.

Pete

 

[sunnybob]

Panasonic definitely sell new pans. I have bought one in the past.
Most main brand makes should also sell them.

Apart from the pan, you most likely need a new belt. the motor will either work or not, but if the belt slips, youll get the results you describe.

 

[Robert]

Saw a Panasonic posted on hotdeals this morning for £99

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08YNTMC49 (without the referral link). Tick voucher box to bring it down to 99.

We have a panasonic breadmaker that has hardly left the cupboard for the last couple of years. i still make all our bread but now just use a stand mixer with dough hook and hand shape into loaves or rolls. Result is just so much better and still takes little effort.

 

[Lons]

We've had 2 Panasonics over many years Chris without any issues, passed the first on to my daughter. The current model we have is SD255 and previous was almost identical but without the nut dispenser.
I can't comment on any other makes though.

 

[novocaine]

Our panasonic 2500 has done us well. MIL has the next model up and loves it. 95 quid on bezos emporium of tatt.

 

[Woodster]

We bought a new Panasonic SD 2550 direct from Panasonic a couple of months back when it was on discount. It’s a good machine and does a great job like the old one.

You can get spares like bread pans and kneading blades for the Panasonic’s.

 

[flying haggis]

check out gumtree and facebok marketplace as well. check e bay as well they usually have few on there and as others have said panasonic are the mutts nutts. if you frequent car boots keep a look out there as well. i picked up a virtually unused panasonic some time for £2 ( no not a typo!) which is in the garage for when our current panadonic dies. even if i only used the paddle as a spare i would still be quids in.

 

[Lurker]

I do the portable appliance testing for age U.K. in our town .
We are always getting bread makers in, some are as new.

 

[Chris152]

We have one crust left, so I decided to give it a final chance. I turned the paddle several times, seems fine; tried to get a little oil into the bit that drives the paddle, not sure how successful that was; and hoovered crumbs from around that part. Looking in the top, it's clearly leaving flour in a couple of corners, which i pushed back into the mix with a spoon, so hopefully it'll work ok this time. Not a very demanding solution but I'll keep forgetting to do that and there's still the dodgy non-stick finish, so I'm going to get a new one. Hunting for used doesn't appeal, mainly because we'll need it for the next loaf - I've not bought one from the shop since last Spring and want to carry on making. Tho I could be tempted by the odd baguette.
Sooo, based on your responses, I'm going Panasonic, the one I linked to.
I really appreciate your replies fellas, both suggestions for fixes and new machines.
Thank you!

 

[Steve Maskery]

FWIW:
I had a Breville, branded Antony Worral-Thompson (before he threw his career down the bog). It was great. When it eventually died I bought the current equivalent. The cycles were different and the recipe I had perfected didn't work any more, so I used it for making the dough and then baked in the oven.
When I went on a low-carb diet I got rid of it, but, whilst man cannot live by bread alone, neither can man live without bread at all. At least I can't, not for very long.
I bought a Panasonic. Excellent in lots of ways, but I still use it only for making the dough, the baking gets done in the oven. Why? Well apart from the obvious hole in its bum, the loaves are a funny shape, small footprint and very tall. I'd rather bake them in a conventional 2lb loaf tin.
I wish I didn't like bread so much.

 

[AJB Temple]

In my experience a heavy duty mixer with a dough hook does a much better job of mixing dough. Very quick and very thorough.

I would like an Ankarsrum dough mixer but I can't justify it for the amount I bake, especially as I already have a perfectly good mixer.

I run two bowls for each batch and one bowl will take 2 kg of dough.

 

[Woodster]

I’ve been using Saf Levure dried yeast from BakeryBits in my Panasonic. It needs to be pre-activated in warm water so I do that with some honey then tip it in the pan with the dry ingredients. As the machine sits doing nothing for quite a few minutes I give the mixture a quick stir to get the flavours started. This is not as directed in the manual but it works very well for me. Our machine gets used a lot.

 

[Chris152]

Just a quickie to say I'm really pleased with the Panasonic we bought. Crusty loaves are really crusty on the darkest setting, and the paddle leaves a tidy little hole compared to the old one, whose paddle was angled and so tore out a large hole in the bottom. And it's got us wanting to try some of the more adventurous recipes. Who knows, we may even try making jam in it at some point... I'd definitely recommend to anyone else thinking about a new machine.
Thanks again for all the advice.

 

[Woodster]

We’re on a second one now and provided you use good ingredients they work extremely well in our experience. Ours came with a second slotted paddle which I think is for sourdough? I’ll have to give it a try.

 

[novocaine]

we use basic ingredients, most of the time it's ASDA flour. quick yeast from a packet, butter from whatever we have in, salt from the giant bag.

still makes good bread. you do need to mess with the water content to figure out what will work where you are (hard vs soft water and altitude will have some effect).

when I make roles I've tweaked the recipe to 50/50 water/milk. I've also reduced the salt content to around 3/4 what it says in the recipe.

 

[Woodster]

when I make roles I've tweaked the recipe to 50/50 water/milk. I've also reduced the salt content to around 3/4 what it says in the recipe.

Is that a common tweek for Rolls? Not tried any so must give it a go.

 

[novocaine]

when I make roles I've tweaked the recipe to 50/50 water/milk. I've also reduced the salt content to around 3/4 what it says in the recipe.

Is that a common tweet for Rolls? Not tried any so must give it a go.

no idea, but it makes a nice bread. also, you're right, rolls. :lol:

Haven't tried it in a full loaf but think I'll give it a go.

 

[spb]

Milk makes for a softer end result, but also goes stale faster. It's a tradeoff that's done more often for rolls, buns and the like, since they don't need to last for days after being cut into.

 

[Chris152]

Just a quick one - we use a basic recipe (yeast: 1tsp; strong white flour: 500g; sugar: 1.5 tsp; olive oil: guess at about 25g, but definitely varies; salt 1.25 tsp (but often a bit more); water: 350ml (slightly above cold). Cooked in the Panasonic SD-2501WXC.

I've done a bit of searching online on how to make it lighter/ more air bubbles, but just seem to find new recipes. Is it possible to tweak the above recipe and make the bread less heavy?

Thanks, C

 

[Steve Maskery]

Just a quick one - we use a basic recipe (yeast: 1tsp; strong white flour: 500g; sugar: 1.5 tsp; olive oil: guess at about 25g, but definitely varies; salt 1.25 tsp (but often a bit more); water: 350ml (slightly above cold). Cooked in the Panasonic SD-2501WXC.

I've done a bit of searching online on how to make it lighter/ more air bubbles, but just seem to find new recipes. Is it possible to tweak the above recipe and make the bread less heavy?

Thanks, C

For 500g flour, I think that 1 tsp yeast is a bit on the skinny side, es[ecially if it is a level tsp. Try doubling it and see what happens.
I've stopped making bread because the flour here is not the same as in the UK. It's not as strong but I have found bags of gluten in the BioCoop.
I stopped using the canned programs years ago, I just use mine to make the dough and then bake in the conventional way.
HTH
S

 

[Chris152]

For 500g flour, I think that 1 tsp yeast is a bit on the skinny side, es[ecially if it is a level tsp. Try doubling it and see what happens.
I've stopped making bread because the flour here is not the same as in the UK. It's not as strong but I have found bags of gluten in the BioCoop.
I stopped using the canned programs years ago, I just use mine to make the dough and then bake in the conventional way.
HTH
S

Thanks Steve - I'll have a go in the morning and report back.

 

[AndyT]

Also make sure you have the right sort of dried yeast. Allinsons do two, widely available.
"Easy bake" is what we use and 1 tsp works fine on white or wholemeal flour, with 1.5tsp of sugar. We're using the pink plastic measuring spoon that came with the bread maker.

If you buy the "Dried active" version it needs to be mixed up with sugar and water before adding to the flour.

 

[CHJ]

The Boss always mixes the dough in the Kenwood with the dough hook.

For yeast we use Fermipan dried yeast. (We decant into smaller 50-100grm. batches in airtight containers and freeze to extent life)

Yeast Ratio:- aprox. 9Grm to 800Grm Flour. Dry mix Yeast with Dough.

We find this yeast is not too fussy about being at optimum temperature and rises well in warm kitchen temps.

 

[Malc2098]

I find I get a better loaf from the 1Kg recipe rather than from the 500gm ones I've used. I'm the only white bread eater in our house, so after baking and cooling I slice the loaves and separate them in to three slice groups and put them in to sandwich bags and put them in the freezer. I get one bag out each morning and they're almost as good as when they were baked.

This was the last recipe I used - Bake with Jack.

Here's where I buy my yeast and flour. Bakery Bits

 

[AJB Temple]

If you buy a lot of flour, it is quite a bit cheaper to buy direct from the mill rather than Bakery Bits (who have reduced their range of suppliers) and will get the best use by dates. Shipton Mill is currently charging us £24.95 for 25kg sack of stoneground organic strong and £15.80 for stoneground organic rye 16kg with free delivery and inc VAT.

 

[Malc2098]

If you buy a lot of flour, it is quite a bit cheaper to buy direct from the mill rather than Bakery Bits (who have reduced their range of suppliers) and will get the best use by dates. Shipton Mill is currently charging us £24.95 for 25kg sack of stoneground organic strong and £15.80 for stoneground organic rye 16kg with free delivery and inc VAT.

I've said how much bread I eat, so you can see I don't bake a lot. But as an occasional baker, I do get a better choice than in the supermarkets or farm shops locally. And it gives me an opportunity to pop over to the next town to collect it and have a coffee and use shops I don't have in my town.

 

[CHJ]

Shipton Mill is currently charging us £24.95 for 25kg sack of stoneground organic strong and £15.80 for stoneground organic rye 16kg with free delivery and inc VAT.

Have called in at Shipton Mill a couple of times to pick up samples of several of their flours to compare.

Unfortunately we don't use sufficient quantities to justify bulk buys these days but do find the 5 Seed Mix very good for adding interest to various Loaves and Rolls texture and dressing.

 

[Chris152]

Shipton Mill kept us going through the Covid lock downs, but then I got lazy again. I need to get back to using them. Our local supermarkets don't seem to sell good bread, and the farm shop sells great bread but close to £5 for a loaf.

And, having seen comments above on yeast, I checked the date on mine (Allisons Easy Bake in a sealed tin), which I opened recently - best before end of Jan 2023. [embarrassed face]

 

[AJB Temple]

Flour keeps very well if you have a dry spot that is vermin free. The 16kg bags are easy to handle and mine lasts for several months as I only use it to make sourdough ferment.

 

[Steve Maskery]

You may (or may not) be interested to know that there is much consternation here in France about the quality of bread.
Our local town, Chateauponsac, is as dead as a dod0. It used to have 30-odd cafes, now it has two-and-a-half, and one of them has only just opened. Six months ago we had only the half. This is due to depopulation, >3K inhabitants to <1800. It's been downgraded from a town to a vilage as a result.

But we do still have a boulangerie. She makes good, traditional bread. When she is sold out, she shuts the shop, so if I go into town in the afternoon, there is a good chance that she is closed.

There is also a small supermarket. Think local co-op, rather than Tesco. They also sell fresh bread, though I have seen no sign of an in-store bakery, so I don't know where it is made (unless it is just "out the back").

They sell two different "baguettes". One is light and airy, with a proper structure, but is stale within 24 hours, the other lasts 2-3 days but is soft and pappy inside, rather like a baguette-shaped Wonderloaf. Apart from the shape, they bear no resemblance to each other.
There is no reason to do this apart from the cost. The pappy one is 88c, IIRC., the proper one is closer to €2.

There are artisan bakers who sell at markets. Such bread is sold by the Kilo. But you have to be careful. We bought one that was quite large, looked beautifully rustic and cost a fiver. When we tried to eat it, it was like a brick, hard as a rock.

I miss my bread. I got my flour from Cauldwell Mill in Derbyshire. OK, I suppose they buy it in, but it was always good, and I had perfected my recipe over many years. Here, it's like starting again. All flour has a T-number. We are familiar in the UK with T00 for pasta, but it goes up. T45, T80, T160 and so on. The higher the number, the less refined it is.
There is a lot to learn.
S

 

[AJB Temple]

They say T55 or T65 for proper baguettes. It's still low protein though, often around 8-9% and they usually don't add salt so it goes stale quickly. I've baked with it quite a bit in the south of France, but it is very different to something like a strong Canadian bread flour that we get easily in the UK which can be 13-14%. Not sure but I think the higher the T number the more husk is left in.

Clearly you need to become an importer of proper flour to France Steve.

 

[Malc2098]

C&Pd from the Bakerybits website.

France is one of the, if not the best known country in the world for its bread and boulangeries. Not by accident then that it produces some of the best flour in the world, categorised by the T system, flours are classified according to the most appropriate use, from T45 for fine white flour suitable to cakes, biscuits and patisserie through to T150 which is wholemeal suited to wholemeal loaves with T55 and T65 between, excellent for most bread and baguettes in particular.

 

[Chris152]

Well, I nearly doubled the amount of yeast and added slightly less salt. It's supposed to be a medium-size loaf but it rose above the level of the tin and looks a much better texture than we had before. The proof of the pudding, of course, is to come - it's currently cooling down, but very happy. Thanks all.