Chest of drawers and lock mitre joint

[Guineafowl21]

I’m looking to make a chest similar to the one one page 234 of Illustrated Cabinetmaking, by Hylton (not sure if I should post a pic of the design here - probably not).

It consists of ply sides with stopped housings to accept web frames for the drawers. Instead of ply, I’d like to make frame and panel sides. Any general comments on this style would be welcomed.

For the drawers, I’ve had quite enough of spending ages doing blind dovetails that no-one will see, but saw this tempting item:

https://www.scosarg.com/cmt-694-011-mit ... q0QAvD_BwE

It looks like you set it up, then cut both sides of the joint without changing settings. Also apparently good for glue joints and general boxes. Has anyone used these? Is there a good way of estimating how much length the joint takes up, or do you just run some test pieces through?

 

[MJ80]

I have one of those. it can be an absolute swine to set up. I haven't ever used it for drawer boxes, only for making wrap round elements eg kitchen corner posts. I think the router table version would be more suited to drawers rather than on the moulder.
For jointing flat panels there are much simpler ways to get the job done. I actually have it set up for this at the moment to make up panels from offcuts - I'm using primed MFC for some carcasses. They do glue up pretty well but getting them absolutley spot on is another matter, solid timber is more forgiving.
Its much easier to setup if you have a digital readout or measuring device, but I still find it a chore and it is a relativley rarely used.

 

[Trevanion]

I would concur with the "swine to set up" statement :lol:

I've never used them on endgrain cuts, I would expect it would work but I wouldn't imagine it would be a very strong joint.

It looks like you set it up, then cut both sides of the joint without changing settings. Also apparently good for glue joints and general boxes. Has anyone used these? Is there a good way of estimating how much length the joint takes up, or do you just run some test pieces through?

It's just the same as a regular mitre, the joint only takes up the material thickness.

 

[Guineafowl21]

Would it be as much of a swine as cutting 6 drawers’ worth of blind dovetails? :mrgreen:

 

[Steve Maskery]

Swine to set up, a pig to use, especially on endgrain.
I have a chest of drawers on my TUIT list and I shall use box joints and false fronts, NK style. Strong and easy to fit well.
S

 

[MJ80]

Would it be as much of a swine as cutting 6 drawers’ worth of blind dovetails? :mrgreen:

You will regret it, the money would be better in a dovetail jig or your pocket. There is a reason you don't actually see this joint being used in a drawer production setting.

 

[Woodbloke]

I was serverially tempted a while ago to purchase one of Ax’s router cutters (there are three sizes I believe); having read through this post I think I’ll pass - Rob

 

[sunnybob]

I have the router table version. havent used it a great deal but was not difficult to set (there are many utube tutorials) and it gave good strong results..
No experience whatsoever with a spindle moulder :eusa-naughty: :eusa-naughty:
If youre not actually after show quality dovetails, take a few minutes to watch this system. i've used it and it makes very strong drawers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQXHzvJNsoA&t=358s

 

[Sheffield Tony]

Are these sort of joints really strong, in proper wood I mean. It looks like the little bit of short grain would easily snap, and most of the glue joints have at least one end-grain surface. Can't see it being great in ply either. Just quick.

 

[Woodbloke]

I have the router table version. havent used it a great deal but was not difficult to set (there are many utube tutorials) and it gave good strong results..
No experience whatsoever with a spindle moulder :eusa-naughty: :eusa-naughty:
If youre not actually after show quality dovetails, take a few minutes to watch this system. i've used it and it makes very strong drawers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQXHzvJNsoA&t=358s

As soon as I saw that plonker’s fingers 30mm above the table saw blade I lost interest - Rob

 

[droogs]

I have the bit below from Wealdon and it is excellent

https://www.wealdentool.com/cgi-bin/sh0 ... tml#aT5546

here is a review of it on their site
https://www.wealdentool.com/kb/techniqu ... ck-cutter/

 

[sunnybob]

I have the router table version. havent used it a great deal but was not difficult to set (there are many utube tutorials) and it gave good strong results..
No experience whatsoever with a spindle moulder :eusa-naughty: :eusa-naughty:
If youre not actually after show quality dovetails, take a few minutes to watch this system. i've used it and it makes very strong drawers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQXHzvJNsoA&t=358s

As soon as I saw that plonker’s fingers 30mm above the table saw blade I lost interest - Rob

You mean you are not interested in a tried and tested technique, because one man made (in your eyes), a dangerous move?. There are many more videos extolling the 1/4 x1/4 x1/4 method.

 

[Woodbloke]

You mean you are not interested in a tried and tested technique, because one man made (in your eyes), a dangerous move?. There are many more videos extolling the 1/4 x1/4 x1/4 method.

I have absolutely no interest, full stop, in any technique, tried, tested or nae, where the operator’s fingers come within 30mm or so of a tablesaur blade. UToob is a great learning resource, particularly for those who don’t have a lot of experience or knowledge, bearing in mind that precious little of this sort of elf n’safety stuff is taught formally any more (private, paid tuition courses are another matter).

There is some great stuff, but there’s also content that’s truly appalling and this ‘murrican eejit is a prime example. The really sad thing is that folk learning about woodmangling think, wrongly, that if it’s on UToob it must be kosher and the right way of doing things, when clearly it’s not and is bloody (literally) dangerous.

I had a similar ‘discussion’ with my pal Derek Jones on InstaG when he made a post showing the operator holding a piece of wood in one hand and the other was using a chisel cutting towards the work!
When youngsters (and others) are learning it’s up to us who know better to post online the best and safest working practices.

That said, I have no intention of getting into an online ‘spat’ with you SB and if you continue, I’ll take no further part in this discussion - Rob

 

[Guineafowl21]

I have the router table version. havent used it a great deal but was not difficult to set (there are many utube tutorials) and it gave good strong results..
No experience whatsoever with a spindle moulder :eusa-naughty: :eusa-naughty:
If youre not actually after show quality dovetails, take a few minutes to watch this system. i've used it and it makes very strong drawers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQXHzvJNsoA&t=358s

I quite like that, although I don’t have a dado stack. Might be able to fiddle something with my T&G cutters, or the wobble saw in the spindle moulder.

The technique would be safer and more controllable in the radial arm saw, I think.

 

[MJ80]

Here are some sections I have made up for a kitchen I'm working on. To give you an idea of the joint width the stock is 26mm.

 

[Guineafowl21]

Here are some sections I have made up for a kitchen I'm working on. To give you an idea of the joint width the stock is 26mm.

That doesn’t look too bad for strength, although what it would be like in thinner drawer stock I’m not sure.

For setup, is the height relatively unimportant? For example, my paired T&G cutters can be eyeballed for height, because whatever height of tongue you get, the groove will match, as long as you keep all the stock face down.

For depth, do you start shallow, cut two test pieces, then tap the fence back, repeat, until you get a good fit?

 

[MJ80]

Height on this is absolutely critical followed by fence depth. I use a digital height gauge on the moulder to get it dialled in and it takes ages. Then you need to set the fence to get the depth so the joint closes up (panel joint) without sniping the end off the piece on the outside fence. It really is a pain of a thing.
Then you are good to go for both joints. Do the setup with the powerfeed so you can keep everything constant. Any tiny deviation in thickness of material will also cause problems. I've also noticed it sometimes won't be 90 degrees on both faces, which can be made worse when clamping. Clamping can be a fun game too.
I really can't do any more to push you away from thinking about this cutter block.

 

[Trevanion]

For setup, is the height relatively unimportant? For example, my paired T&G cutters can be eyeballed for height, because whatever height of tongue you get, the groove will match, as long as you keep all the stock face down.

For depth, do you start shallow, cut two test pieces, then tap the fence back, repeat, until you get a good fit?

The height and depth being correct is absolutely critical to a matching joint, it's what makes it such a pain to set up as there is literally no tolerance, it has to be spot-on.

 

[woodstalker]

I’m looking to make a chest similar to the one one page 234 of Illustrated Cabinetmaking, by Hylton (not sure if I should post a pic of the design here - probably not).

It consists of ply sides with stopped housings to accept web frames for the drawers. Instead of ply, I’d like to make frame and panel sides. Any general comments on this style would be welcomed.

For the drawers, I’ve had quite enough of spending ages doing blind dovetails that no-one will see, but saw this tempting item:

https://www.scosarg.com/cmt-694-011-mit ... q0QAvD_BwE

It looks like you set it up, then cut both sides of the joint without changing settings. Also apparently good for glue joints and general boxes. Has anyone used these? Is there a good way of estimating how much length the joint takes up, or do you just run some test pieces through?

Would a half lock joint on the table saw any good?

https://www.woodmagazine.com/woodworkin ... wer-joints

 

[Guineafowl21]

Well, that’s fairly unequivocal. Good job I asked, otherwise I would have just bought it as it looks just the job.

Some sort of rebate/T&G type joint seems the order of the day. I now need to find some reasonably priced timber!

 

[Eric the Viking]

@Rob: a while back I bought both the smallest and biggest of the Axminster mitre lock cutters together. I still haven't needed the biggest one but I have had good results with the little one.

I set up the router table with some nervousness, having read how fiddly they are supposed to be, but actually got a good fit pretty quickly, with very little wasted stock.

Beginner's luck? Possibly. But I have a couple of things going for me - The router height is easily micro-adjusted (T11, presently in an Axy plate, althoughI have an Incra one waiting to be fitted), and I knocked-up a tall auxiliary fence, with a sliding carriage (crudely made), which stops the stock wobbling as it goes through. The fence is about 8" tall, which was easily sufficient for the systainer-sized boxes I was making out of 12mm ply, as the experiment.

"Wobbling" is a big issue, obviously, as the pass has to be clean and smooth across the cutter, and I found that it's a lottery with cheap plywood, because of the poor quality and glueing of the inside laminations. That said, places where the short-grain tongue broke away didn't seem to weaken the boxes much. They hold my belt and big orbital sanders, and get thumped around quite a lot (glue was Titebond 2).

One other good thing was that the glue-up was straightforward, as the joint is self-aligning. Fairly weak clamps were quite sufficient.

I have never needed the big cutter, I think mostly because joints that big would be easier and better made by other methods. The middle-sized one would probably be good, but theprice has gone up enormously since I bought mine and I haven't had a good enough excuse to justify one since.

So it may be beginner's luck, but I quite like the one I have used. Would I use it for posh work? Probably not, because of tearout, etc., but it's still useful nonetheless.

Mileage on these obviously varies a lot.

E.