Connector Systems

[PAC1]

I have to make some large wardrobes in the summer which need to be built in situ and possible to take apart for moving house. Has anyone got any views about whether the Festool (500) connector system is any good or whether the Lamello system is better?

 

[RogerS]

Here you go. Chapter and verse on using the Festool stuff. Would use it again in a flash.

Using Festool KD fittings - landing cupboard

Folk may recall back in July I posed the question in this thread about the best way of providing storage space here yet allowing access to all the plumbing. After much deliberation, I came to the conclusion that :- (A) I needed quick and easy access to Mission Control and/or all the...

thewoodhaven2.co.uk

 

[PAC1]

Thanks Roger, I will have a read at this tonight.

 

[RogerS]

I don't know much about the Lamello system but presumably they have their own machine? I already had my Festool and so the choice, more or less, was made for me. No regrets AFAICR

 

[PAC1]

That is probably where I am, as I have a DF500. Although I have considered getting a Lamello, usually I look at the price and realise they make Festool look reasonably cheap.

 

[AJB Temple]

The guy Peter something who does lots of YT reviews, did extensive comparisons of the various systems out there inc. Festool and Lamello.

I've use the Festool one .....because I already have a Domino. It works very well. The components are quite expensive but work very well.

 

[PAC1]

Thanks Adrian.

 

[PAC1]

Having looked a bit further, I think in an ideal world (if I did not own a Festool DF500) the Lamello P2 Zeta system is probably better, faster and provides solutions to a variety of joining situations and angles. However as I do own a DF500 and all I want to do is create strong 90 degree joints that can be taken apart and reassembled the Domino system is well regarded and strong. Further at an investment cost of a few hundred (including a number of fittings) rather than £1500 (just for the Lamello machine) the decision is easy to make.
If however making furniture that could be taken apart was a major part of a business the speed and options of the Lamello might result in a different decision.
A common theme is that the Lamello P2 Zeta was designed for a purpose. The Festool connection system was an after thought.
For my needs the Festool system will do a good job.
It is interesting that several sources all said if you own the DF500 then the decision is simple.
Thanks for all the advice.

 

[AJB Temple]

Having looked a bit further, I think in an ideal world (if I did not own a Festool DF500) the Lamello P2 Zeta system is probably better, faster and provides solutions to a variety of joining situations and angles. However as I do own a DF500 and all I want to do is create strong 90 degree joints that can be taken apart and reassembled the Domino system is well regarded and strong. Further at an investment cost of a few hundred (including a number of fittings) rather than £1500 (just for the Lamello machine) the decision is easy to make.
If however making furniture that could be taken apart was a major part of a business the speed and options of the Lamello might result in a different decision.
A common theme is that the Lamello P2 Zeta was designed for a purpose. The Festool connection system was an after thought.
For my needs the Festool system will do a good job.
It is interesting that several sources all said if you own the DF500 then the decision is simple.
Thanks for all the advice.

Spot on analysis I think. The Lamello seemed superior to me too, but not viable for a single project.

 

[RogerS]

Having looked a bit further, I think in an ideal world (if I did not own a Festool DF500) the Lamello P2 Zeta system is probably better, faster and provides solutions to a variety of joining situations and angles. However as I do own a DF500 and all I want to do is create strong 90 degree joints that can be taken apart and reassembled the Domino system is well regarded and strong. Further at an investment cost of a few hundred (including a number of fittings) rather than £1500 (just for the Lamello machine) the decision is easy to make.
If however making furniture that could be taken apart was a major part of a business the speed and options of the Lamello might result in a different decision.
A common theme is that the Lamello P2 Zeta was designed for a purpose. The Festool connection system was an after thought.
For my needs the Festool system will do a good job.
It is interesting that several sources all said if you own the DF500 then the decision is simple.
Thanks for all the advice.

You've just jogged a braincell and reminded me of a project I made yonks ago using Lamello Invis. I still have the scars.

 

[meccarroll]

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...ecf51!12000033997643038!ct!UK!2394725950!!1!0

 

[PAC1]

£268 gets you a knock off biscuit jointer. The P2 Zeta is different it is a unique jointing system. The £1500 price tag is for a reason. It produces T shaped slots for what they call Clamex system. It also cuts ordinary biscuit joints. https://www.axminstertools.com/lame...8552?queryID=7c4b53df25f30e9f01ab827a47991b0e

 

[RogerS]

This is the Invis thread if anyone's interested.

Lectern - no WIP

Here are a couple of photos of a pro-bono lectern I made up for our local hospice. Pippy oak. Sloping slightly towards the front. Joints made using Invis (never again).

thewoodhaven2.co.uk

 

[meccarroll]

£268 gets you a knock off biscuit jointer. The P2 Zeta is different it is a unique jointing system. The £1500 price tag is for a reason. It produces T shaped slots for what they call Clamex system. It also cuts ordinary biscuit joints. https://www.axminstertools.com/lame...8552?queryID=7c4b53df25f30e9f01ab827a47991b0e

If you look at the video is uses the same T jointing connector not biscuits.

I have purchased a lot of items from Alixpress one such item was a Dowel jig for £30 the exact same from a UK seller £100 (exactly the same just re-branded). Same with a Security camera UK £175 Alixpress £70...exact same camera.

I would imagine the P2 Zeta could be a much better buy if you are going to use one often but the one from alixpress could also be worth looking into.

 

[PAC1]

If you look at the video is uses the same T jointing connector not biscuits.

I have purchased a lot of items from Alixpress one such item was a Dowel jig for £30 the exact same from a UK seller £100 (exactly the same just re-branded). Same with a Security camera UK £175 Alixpress £70...exact same camera.

I would imagine the P2 Zeta could be a much better buy if you are going to use one often but the one from alixpress could also be worth looking into.

I have a biscuit jointer. It is 30 years old but it still works as well as it ever did (which was not brilliant).
What I was interested in this thread is demountable or knock down systems for something that will need to be taken apart in the future, not ordinary biscuits or dominos for permanent construction.

 

[meccarroll]

I have a biscuit jointer. It is 30 years old but it still works as well as it ever did (which was not brilliant).
What I was interested in this thread is demountable or knock down systems for something that will need to be taken apart in the future, not ordinary biscuits or dominos for permanent construction.

It's a machine on Alixpress made in China that is advertised as doing the same thing as the Lamello Zeta P2 but at much less cost if you not interested that's absolutly fine.

I have a Fern biscuit jointer that is 25 years old, not as well made as some other makes but also does the job LoL.

Let us know when you have decided.

 

[PAC1]

It's a machine on Alixpress made in China that is advertised as doing the same thing as the Lamello Zeta P2 but at much less cost if you not interested that's absolutly fine.

I have a Fern biscuit jointer that is 25 years old, not as well made as some other makes but also does the job LoL.

Let us know when you have decided.

I made the decision that I would use the Festool system because I do not have many joints to make probably a maximum of 20. The cheapest solution is to buy just what I need from Festool. If I did knock down stuff all the time would go with the Lamello or Lamino system. But my needs are very much a one off unusual project where I cannot get the wardrobes in assembled and I know they will need to come out in the future. I was probably always tilting at the Festool but wanted to see the choices. The other option is just to make the wardrobe as two boxes and screw them together and not buy anything new. That would put a central divider in the wardrobes which may or may not be acceptable.
Thanks for trying to convince me.

 

[Doug71]

If you have a normal biscuit jointer Lamello do the S-20 connectors which just fit in a standard 4mm biscuit slot, I haven't used them on a big wardrobe yet but have used them on quite a few kitchen sized cabinets and for fixing loads of face frames, I've found them to work well. You don't need any extra kit (a plastic drilling jig is included with the connectors) and they only leave a 6mm hole which is great if you have to have it on the side which is seen.

 

[PAC1]

Thanks Doug. I was not aware of the S20. I will look into them as soon as I finish the work I need to complete tonight!

 

[PAC1]

If I run the top over the uprights, that would take the weight of the top off the joint. So a serious possibility for £50.

 

[Jonathan]

I always run my top and bottoms full width and the uprights are between and then screw through the top and bottom so the screws are normally not seen.
Never understood why mass production has the sides full length and top and bottom in-between, unless its just designed to fail?

 

[Eric the Viking]

I can't believe Lamello launched Clamex with no IP protection - after all, none of the big manufacturers are copying it (although that might simply be because they consider it to be too niche). Clamex has been around for say 10 years, thus probably has eight or ten more years to run on its patents.

It's interesting that the Chinese company uses a different name, "Lamino," for their system, the connectors for which look pretty much identical to the Clamex.

Conclusion: it's very blatant.

Impish thought: I wonder if it actually works, but I won't blow 280 quid on finding out.

 

[meccarroll]

I just checked what bits I used for the V.Carve on the below plaque and for the words The House I used a 60 deg V bit. I did a pocket around the Ferrari then used a 60 deg V bit to put a bevel on the edge.

I don't do a lot of this sort of thing but have found you have to experiment with fonts to see how the lettering will turn out.

My software tell me that I set the V.Carve to 3mm depth.






Opp,s wrong thread!

 

[Spectric]

I know this is an old thread but having been looking into different systems and reading way to many comments in many places there is a distinction between the Domino and a Lamello P2 . For most things the Domino is great, there KD fittings are 50/50 . Where this Lamello comes into it's own is with mitred and angled joints which can be awkward to clamp up during assembly but with the P2 fittings they are either just snapped together with the Tenso connectors and glue or a simple turn of an allen key with the Clamex connectors if you want a KD joint.

Look at the work this company is doing and I think they use the Lamello and Domino so it is not one or the other but both needed.

Wine Cellars & Racks

Bespoke Wine Storage Solutions Handcrafted wine cellars and racks tailored to your space, designed to preserve your collection and showcase it in style. Get You...

topbuildcarpentry.co.uk

 

[Accipiter]

Peter Millard of 10MinuteWorkshop (10 MW) has a number of videos on these various machines. Worth checking his YouTube channel

 

[RogerS]

Jeez Spectric….I’d totally forgotten about the pain of using the Lamello Invis system……

 

[TrimTheKing]

I just checked what bits I used for the V.Carve on the below plaque and for the words The House I used a 60 deg V bit. I did a pocket around the Ferrari then used a 60 deg V bit to put a bevel on the edge.

I don't do a lot of this sort of thing but have found you have to experiment with fonts to see how the lettering will turn out.

My software tell me that I set the V.Carve to 3mm depth.




View attachment 32417

Opp,s wrong thread!

Which thread do you want it moving to?

 

[Spectric]

totally forgotten about the pain of using the Lamello Invis system

I would think most people have, it has to be way down the list of jointing solutions to use but out of curiousity it is still available, why !! To me it must be like working in the dark as there is nothing to see when using it.

 

[Spectric]

usually I look at the price and realise they make Festool look reasonably cheap.

Forget the cost of the machine as that is a one off hit, what puts me off is the ongoing cost of the connectors, plus you have to buy at least eighty. To get going with a range of these connectors is a cost of around £300 so here the domino's oblong dowels work out much cheaper and you can make your own. Also is joining wood with plastic connectors still woodworking !!

@meccarroll did you buy that knock off lamello copy for £268 ?

 

[meccarroll]

Forget the cost of the machine as that is a one off hit, what puts me off is the ongoing cost of the connectors, plus you have to buy at least eighty. To get going with a range of these connectors is a cost of around £300 so here the domino's oblong dowels work out much cheaper and you can make your own. Also is joining wood with plastic connectors still woodworking !!

@meccarroll did you buy that knock off lamello copy for £268 ?

No I don't have a need for one at the moment but if I did I'd be tempted to take the risk and give one a go, Alixpress do accept returns and give refunds so it might not be that much of a risk.

I put a kitchen together with CAM DOWELS last year, I used cam dowels because I wanted an inexpensive way of being able to put cabinets together and take them apart for transporting to a job. I used a Cam dowel jig from Alixpress £30 which is also sold here in the UK for £100 (exact same).

Prior to the kitchen I made a bedroom wardrobe using Cam dowels. Again I knew the bedroom wardrobe would be too big to fit through the bedroom door hence the cam dowel approach. I don't think cam dowels are the perfect solution for free standing furniture as they can give way to some movement if the unit is not leveled but they are cheap and work well for a lot of situations such as built in cupboards that are later fixed in position like kitchen units.

The Domino sytem seems a good idea but like everything else it has it's limitations and is not really designed to be a Knock down system.