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Does anyone know anything about septic tanks?

RogerS

RogerS

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Don't read the rest of this if you are eating .... :o






Due to an oversight by yours truly, the septic tank hasn't been emptied for years. Well, at £140 a pop are you surprised? But I have discovered that the digestor (is that the right term...it's the first tank that the sewage goes into) is full to the brim. So full that solids have gone through into the next tank...the one full of stones..which is also full and now overflowing (see, told you not to read this if you were eating :evil: ).

Which suggests to me that the stones are blocked and the water not flowing away.

Which means that after I have had the tanks sucked out I may have to dig out all those stones and replace with fresh? Or might I be lucky and be able to leave it to sort itself out?

Anyone any experience of this?

I've had to do this once before and a guy I know came up with his mini-digger, dug a bloody great hole and then very skilfully emptied out the old clagged up stones and deposited them in the hole. The last remaining stones were shovelled out by yours truly. I've got some potholes down the drive and so I reckon this stone could be usefully be recycled. It will pong a bit until the microbes do their business but will keep the illegal walkers away! Trouble will be transporting the stones down the drive and we all know how long that is :cry:
 
Stones? In a septic tank! What's that all about? Is this an old brick (or concrete) tank, or a modern fibreglass thing?

Traditional tanks have a settlement side, which should always be full, and on which the crud floats as a solid mat on the surface, and a something-or-other side, in which the little bugs get to work clearing up the liquid prior to discharge via leech drains, or an overflow to a ditch, or the like. Stones aren't a normal part of the picture.
 
It's pretty old, concrete/stone (definitely not plastic!) and you're right...I have no idea why they have stones in the bottom. There are two tanks. The first one where the anaerobic digestion takes place and then the excess water flows through to the second tank in which are these stones. I'm not sure where the outlet pipe is from this...Googling shows the pipe fairly high up but at the moment the whole thing is under stuff.

Maybe they put the outlet pipe at the bottom and though that the stoned would act as a filter? Certainly that doesn't make sense to me now...in hindsight.

EDIT: Doesn't the main digestion part take place at the bottom of the first tank?
 
Sounds like a failed soak away, exactly as we had last year. I presume that is what the 'tank' filled with stones is, a soak away. I am told it is hard to give a good estimate of the life of a soak away as it depends so much on a variety of factors but that in the round 10 years is an avergae estimate. If that is the case then answer is that you need a new one dug in a new location. Guess you could take the stones out, but then the surrounding earth I that location will still be somewhat saturated with fat and other things so the life would be a lot less than a newly dug soak away. If you previously dug a new hole to put the stones in surely easier just to dig a new hole, put the stones in and then divert the outflow from the tank to this.

But, then speaking to a number of other people it does sound like this is an area where unique and somewhat bespoke designs seem to exist in great number, so maybe you have something different to what we have.

Terry.

Edit: Posts crossed, yup yours sounds jolly 'bespoke'. Are you sure the second 'tank' has a pipe out, sounds more like a soak away than anything else to me. As I understand it modern systems will have two tanks, but not all old ones do. In our system the outlet pipe is at the top of the tank, but it is what the guy who worked on it called a 'dipper valve'. I think this was nothing more than the outlet pipe having a vertical section of pipe so the outflow is drawn from below the surface, given that sh1t floats and all that.
 
The second tank sounds more like a seepage bed, problem with very old septic tanks is they were often built ad hoc.
 
I've never heard of one with stones in the second tank. Normally, as people have said, the first tank stores the solid fats etc which float and make a 'crust', solid poop sinks (or floats, depending on the fat level in your diet...) and is eaten away by the microbes, then the water flows into the second tank and then usually lead to a soak away which may or may not be full of stones.

Get it hoovered out then climb in and do some mapping out. [emoji6]

Cheers
Mark
 
I didn't think you had to have septic tanks emptied, cesspools need emptying as they just store the waste but septic tanks are supposed to digest the waste.
 
TrimTheKing":2u0eghpw said:
I've never heard of one with stones in the second tank. Normally, as people have said, the first tank stores the solid fats etc which float and make a 'crust', solid poop sinks (or floats, depending on the fat level in your diet...) and is eaten away by the microbes, then the water flows into the second tank and then usually lead to a soak away which may or may not be full of stones.

Get it hoovered out then climb in and do some mapping out. [emoji6]

Cheers
Mark
Click to expand...

That's what I've found out and is what ours is supposed to do. The second tank definitely has a pipe leading away from it. I think it's a question of getting both tanks sucked out as much as possible and then I'll pass the shovel to SWMBO. Well, someone has to drive the Disco.

Septic tanks need to be emptied ...frequency depends on size and volume of effluent although Environment Agency say each year. And we're supposed to have them registered...or so I believe.. and some need a permit.
 
I have mine de-sludged (that's the term) every 12 months. I have no license/permit that I am aware of…but then again that might just be for installation, at which point that was done by someone else and I have the paperwork that shows they got permission to drain the grey water into a culvert in the field adjoining.

Cheers
Mark
 
TrimTheKing":2t5cicyo said:
I have mine de-sludged (that's the term) every 12 months. I have no license/permit that I am aware of…but then again that might just be for installation, at which point that was done by someone else and I have the paperwork that shows they got permission to drain the grey water into a culvert in the field adjoining.

Cheers
Mark
Click to expand...

I believe part of the problem is that often when the annual emptying happens it is far easier to just suck up a tanker load of water, rather than get the sludge up from the bottom of the tank, so this is what happens. Not really sure how you check it is being done properly though :? .

Terry.
 
Wizard9999":15b3e382 said:
.... Not really sure how you check it is being done properly though :? .

Terry.
Click to expand...

That's easy.

stock-photo-naked-man-covered-in-mud-164035955.jpg


It's the 'Finding the Volunteer' that's hard :lol:
 
Wizard9999":3p904pxq said:
TrimTheKing":3p904pxq said:
I have mine de-sludged (that's the term) every 12 months. I have no license/permit that I am aware of…but then again that might just be for installation, at which point that was done by someone else and I have the paperwork that shows they got permission to drain the grey water into a culvert in the field adjoining.

Cheers
Mark
Click to expand...

I believe part of the problem is that often when the annual emptying happens it is far easier to just suck up a tanker load of water, rather than get the sludge up from the bottom of the tank, so this is what happens. Not really sure how you check it is being done properly though :? .

Terry.
Click to expand...

I've always been around when it's been done so made the bloke a brew and asked about how it's done, asked to be talked through it etc, plus you can see down into the tank.

They can't get everything, but he always holds the pipe at the top of the crust to suck that up first, then down to the bottom to get the sludge, while constantly moving the pipe to stir it up.

You need to leave a bit of something in there to start populating the bacteria in the tank again so it does its job.

Cheers
Mark
 
In the commune where I lived previously the rules are to empty once every 2 yrs - dont know if this is a national or local regulation. Most people agree this is a bit of an overkill, most were rarely if ever emptied in the past, but in principle there are always residues that are not soluble and build up in the tank over time and which need to be emptied eventually. If not, the filters gradually clog, or the residues find their way into the soakaway which then works less effectively and the system slowly backs up.

In mine the second tank had a filter filled with rocks that looked a bit like pumice stone or clinker and this is what you saw when you took the top off, however it was a small dustbin sized affair that could be lifted out and cleaned. The rest of the tank was empty (apart from the liquids of course).
 
So did the pumice container fit over the outlet pipe thus acting as a sort of filter to prevent the drainage field getting blocked?
 
I appreciate your concern, Dave. The only one I will go into is the second one which is totally open and easy enough to get out of. No chances of any noxious gases as it's full of **** to the brim.

We have a tanker coming out tomorrow from a company called Greensludge (which I think is a brilliant name!). I am tempted to remove the stones...we shall have to see what is lurking underneath all the ****
 
RogerS":295p5m25 said:
Deejay":295p5m25 said:
Don't forget the photo's Roger :D

Cheers

Dave
Click to expand...

Are you serious? Do you guys really want photos ? :o
Click to expand...

Ummm....no.

You might call the company that is doing the pumping and see what they think about the rocks. I'm sure they've seen it all and know what to do.

Kirk
 
TrimTheKing":3aa321cb said:
RogerS":3aa321cb said:
Deejay":3aa321cb said:
Don't forget the photo's Roger :D

Cheers

Dave
Click to expand...

Are you serious? Do you guys really want photos ? :o
Click to expand...

Yeeeaaaaaaahhh! Otherwise it didn't happen! ;)

Mark
Click to expand...

But be sure to utilise the wrist strap on your camera before you take the photos Rog :?
 
Covers came off today and if anyone really wants to see what I saw then two links are here.

This first link is the digestor

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wlx29tghwp4eb ... 2.jpg?dl=0

(must find out why my phone never seems to always focus)

and the second link is the second filter tank. Which should be clear and empty ....just the stones :oops:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n15ytw10qg8uk ... 1.jpg?dl=0

Chappie arrived from Greenapple Sludge...very perky young lad, extremely helpful and I can't fault the company...topnotch. Sucked out a load of **** from both of them and washed down what we could.

The digestor emptied out quite well and it was interesting to see it split up by two walls to slow the passage of the **** to give the microbes more chance to do their stuff.



The bad news is that the inlet pipe from the house that comes in horizontally (not visible in the photo) looks to have had **** backed up inside it reducing the flow to a trickle. I've tried getting my drain rods in but the angle is too acute. Possibly going to have to lie on my side with the arm down inside the tank and either try the drain rods again or the jet wash. No inspection covers put in by the original builder other than one a long long way away. I think I'd need two more sets of drain rods. Jeez......if only. If only I'd got off my butt and had that tank drained sooner.

I'd forgotten that the filtering tank (clinker bed at the bottom is what those stones are called apparently) had sheets of corrugated asbestos covering the clinker bed and there is a slurry of **** all over the top of it. So I was in hope that these sheets had acted a bit like a garden membrane and that a;l the muck lay on top of them.



So I fetched them out and jet washed them down. 'Twas not to be. Underneath was yet another layer of slurry **** and the clinker bed didn't look too bad and I was in hope that I could dig out the top few inches revealing the rest to be clean. I did this as the day was drawing to a close and barrowed it up into our paddock. Sadly the overnight rain is just sitting on the top so I have three options :

1) pay someone to remove the stones ...ballpark figure quoted is £720

2) do it myself

3) just dig a small channel to clear access to the outlet pipe which hopefully is clear.

I think option 3.
 
Never ceases to amaze me, seems that every one of these old 'bespoke' installations is different from any other. Maybe mercifully I couldn't get the links to work :lol: .

Hope plan 'c' solves the issue.

Terry.
 
You'll need to enable cookies to get the dropbox links to work. Not sure if it is worth it. Who on earth asked for pictures.
 
Roger that first picture is just crap!!!

:lol: :eusa-whistle:

Seriously though, I'm embarrassed for you posting such a terrible photograph!

Cheers
Mark
 
Roger, you and the wife need to seriously look at your diet with all that green stuff in the ponds.

You killed all the fish and crabs.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Has anyone else braved the links and if so got them to work?

Tipped large buckets of water down the only available inspection cover near the house but hardly anything went into the digestor. Ended up lying on my side trying to poke the pipe with a drain rod. The pipe seemed almost as if it had a right angle or maybe a swept angle 6" in which didn't make sense unless there was an inspection cover somewhere.

So I got the Lumber Wizard out and Bingo....found another inspection cover - not quite where I was expecting it and it feeds into the digestor via a completely different pipe that is higher up the inside wall and out if sight totally. Said inspection cover was buried beneath about 12 " of plant humus and ivy.



Filled to the brim but Boy, what a feeling of satisfaction to get the drain rod in, a huge shloosh and all that **** went into the digestor. Both covers are certainly not airtight anymore being rusty as anything and maybe I will replace them later on in the year although how one does the one over the digestor I haven't a clue.

But, great sense of achievement as three covers were able to be put back in place. Leaving the filter bed.

Plan C is a non-runner. Those stones must be about 5ft deep. I can't shift enough out of the way to try and find the outlet pipe so they have to (or a large portion) have to come out. Currently toying with the idea of hiring a mini-digger. I mean to say...just how hard can it be ? :eusa-think: The one thing that I do know is that I need to move fast as I don't want that filter tank filling up with water.
 
Forgot to add that the after the first days' work I decided that, when the job is finished, the work clothes are either going down the launderette or in the fire. No way are they coming into the house nor my wellingtons until they are hosed down and disinfected. So first night, work clothes stayed in the workshop but nothing to change into so a quick streak back to the house :lol:
 
RogerS":3xrt497x said:
Has anyone else braved the links and if so got them to work?
Click to expand...
If you mean the Dropbox links then yes. Firefox initially did not display them but when I allowed cookies and refreshed the links they became visible.
Dropbox is a right pita for linking to and imho should be dropped into one of your tanks.
 
Resealing the covers could be helped by applying lots of grease to the frame sealing area which is easy to renew after maintenance.
 
That's a good idea, thanks Old but mine are too far gone and seriously rust encrusted with part of the covers rusted into the frame. These parts got left behind when the covers were lifted. Having said that maybe judicious use of the angle grinder might be enough to take advantage of your suggestion.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk
 
Don't think so. Been open to the air for ages.

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk
 
An aside : I see from your link to draindomain that grease in the soak away is a major cause of clogging, here in France it is usual to install a grease trap on the outlet from the kitchen before it joins the septic tank. A grease trap is simply a small chamber, say 50l, with a series of baffles and with the outlet at the bottom. The principle is that the grease floats to the top and can easily be removed.

I emptied ours about once per year and you'd be horrified at the amount of grease : typically a bucket full.
 
Digger arrives tomorrow...should test my motor-skills !!

Also bought a small trailer to stick the stones in. I foresee a slight problem and would welcome any advice. It's too small to see out of the wing mirrors, or out the back window and so how on earth do I reverse it without nadgering it up?

Really needs doing as the filter tank is filling up with liquid quite quickly. Some will be rain off the cover but a lot is from the digestor...that digestor tank isn't that large and so I'm guessing a few showers here and there, a few flushes and it will soon fill up with liquid which has to go somewhere.
 
RogerS":2oqgnw10 said:
Digger arrives tomorrow...should test my motor-skills !!

Also bought a small trailer to stick the stones in. I foresee a slight problem and would welcome any advice. It's too small to see out of the wing mirrors, or out the back window and so how on earth do I reverse it without nadgering it up?

Really needs doing as the filter tank is filling up with liquid quite quickly. Some will be rain off the cover but a lot is from the digestor...that digestor tank isn't that large and so I'm guessing a few showers here and there, a few flushes and it will soon fill up with liquid which has to go somewhere.
Click to expand...


You can get a Fresnel lens to stick in the rear window to give a view of the trailer or mount a short tube on one or both back corners of the trailer and slip in a stick with flag when reversing so you know where the corners are.
Bob
 
RogerS":2ffn4md5 said:
Digger arrives tomorrow...should test my motor-skills !!

Also bought a small trailer to stick the stones in. I foresee a slight problem and would welcome any advice. It's too small to see out of the wing mirrors, or out the back window and so how on earth do I reverse it without nadgering it up?

Really needs doing as the filter tank is filling up with liquid quite quickly. Some will be rain off the cover but a lot is from the digestor...that digestor tank isn't that large and so I'm guessing a few showers here and there, a few flushes and it will soon fill up with liquid which has to go somewhere.
Click to expand...

+1 for flags, I have the same problem with my trailer, by the time I can see it in the wing mirrors, it' way out of line and too late ! The construction of mine is square tube, so popping a bamboo cane in each of the uprights at the back of the trailer works a treat.
 
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