Kitchen Dilema!

[meccarroll]

Hi my daughter wants a new kitchen plesase see a sketch plan drawing of the dimensions of the room.

They are looking at putting the washing machine in the understair cupboard. This would meann a waste water pipe run to the Soil and Vent Pipe of slightly over 1800mm. The understair cupboard contains the meter board and distribution board on the back wall.

Does anyone have any suggestions on pipe sizes or other comments?

 

[duke]

Is the soil, vent pipe cast iron or ABS. Over here we use a 2" pipe for washing machines. Is the sink/dishwasher going in the 1854 mm space?

 

[meccarroll]

Is the soil, vent pipe cast iron or ABS. Over here we use a 2" pipe for washing machines. Is the sink/dishwasher going in the 1854 mm space?

SVP is plastic and boxed in.

The wall (1854) between the the SVP and cupboard is a party wall. It's a semi detached property.

Sink going under window in the 1650 wall.

I just checked online and from what I have come up with 40mm pipe is recommended at no more than 3000mm long run so I think it may be ok.

 

[meccarroll]

This is a view of the 1854 wall with cupboard on left and boxing on right (Just seen above the units) Sink to right under window.

It's sort of something to go by and not what they should end up with. They want a a large fridge freezer in there somewhere.


Similar to this below.

 

[meccarroll]

A couple more pictures of the rest of the kitchen. Was originally going to be handless but probably going to have handles now.

 

[duke]

Right, makes sense the sink is next to the boiler. Looks like a fun job.

 

[Alasdair]

Should be able to surface run a 40mm pipe to the SVP and cut in a strap on boss however they can be frought with problems and much better to cut the SVP and fit something like a 110mm single boss connector. Some will say you dont need it but i would consider fitting a running trap (I have seen machines fitted without but people then complain of drain smells) also fit a durgo (automatic air valve) and a run of about 18mm per metre on the pipe. The AAV may not be needed it really depends on the existing drain but it would prevent the water seal being pulled if there is a problem.

 

[meccarroll]

Right, makes sense the sink is next to the boiler. Looks like a fun job.

The decision making has been going on for about 9 weeks and I have not been able to pin them down so I can price the materials. But I might be getting there in the next couple of days.

They had an estimate for supply only no white goods similar to above in laquer £7500 area. They have just half that so it's going to be tight!

 

[meccarroll]

Should be able to surface run a 40mm pipe to the SVP and cut in a strap on boss however they can be frought with problems and much better to cut the SVP and fit something like . Some will say you dont need it but i would consider fitting a running trap (I have seen machines fitted without but people then complain of drain smells) also fit a durgo (automatic air valve) and a run of about 18mm per metre on the pipe. The AAV may not be needed it really depends on the existing drain but it would prevent the water seal being pulled if there is a problem.

That's very useful to know thank you. It's not 100% going in the cupboard but deciding the location of the washing machine is one of the hold ups.
A 110mm single boss connector sounds like a good idea will check that out, but how do you get one in place if the SVP is connected to bathroom fittings above?

 

[RogerS]

.....

I just checked online and from what I have come up with 40mm pipe is recommended at no more than 3000mm long run so I think it may be ok.

I was going to say 40mm but you got there first. Don't forget to put in a water trap to stop smells coming into the room.

 

[RogerS]

Looks like a Magnet kitchen !

 

[Mike G]

That's very useful to know thank you. It's not 100% going in the cupboard but deciding the location of the washing machine is one of the hold ups.
A 110mm single boss connector sounds like a good idea will check that out, but how do you get one in place if the SVP is connected to bathroom fittings above?

I think you'll struggle. You may end up using a saddle. They're OK so long as you are scrupulous about positioning, and about cleanliness.

 

[sammy.se]

Tangent: Does your daughter have kids and use lots of dishes?
Then, I recommend.... wait for it... TWO dishwashers. It's the best most efficient thing you can do in your kitchen. No more emptying clean dishes in a cupboard only to take them back out. No more dirty dishes piling up in the sink or worktop. You have a 'clean' dishwasher, and the other 'dirty' dishwasher. When the cycle is done, the dirty becomes the clean, and the clean is emptied (it will only have a couple of things left in it) and it becomes the 'dirty' dishwasher.

You will think about this for two weeks now, while trying to sleep, and realise how genius this is.

You're welcome (in advance).

But seriously, this is worth considering.

 

[Lons]

Definitley 40mm,
I certainly wouldn't fit it without a trap as it will smell at some stage otherwise,
You don't need an air admittance valve as long as you''re certain the stack is also a vent as you said.
You'll find it very problematic to cut in a junction boss with bathroom fixings above, I've been there and had to remove the WC to do it which was a real PITA.
Nothing wrong with a good quality strap on boss as long as you're careful to clean the soil pipe and fit it properly. The solvent adhesive type is best imo and the 40mm pipe goes through a tight rubber seal. I've never had on leak .

EDIT
I haven't fitted any for a few years but my mate swears by a McAlpine mechanical pipe boss. I've seen him fit one and it took minutes and was so simple and secure I was really impressed. He said they were much more expensive than a strap on and you need a specific size hole saw so I don't know how that stack up but worth investigating. I'll give him a ring later just to check.

 

[meccarroll]

I think you'll struggle. You may end up using a saddle. They're OK so long as you are scrupulous about positioning, and about cleanliness.

I thought I might too Mike! but mulling it over on he has got my brain working.

The existing washing machine is where the new 500 unit would stand next to the SVP. I originally thought I'd have to lower the connection into the SVP because of the distance and pipe drop but now think maybe not even have to do that.

As the water is pumped out of the washing machine I could use a p trap with extension and simply have it high enough so the pipe still uses the original connection. Should work or does anyone disagree?

 

[Lons]

Have a look at these 3 links. The second link is an instruction video

McAlpine Mechanical Pipe Boss Connector Black 40mm - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Connects to 110mm soil pipe and will accept waste water or condensate discharge via a 40mm waste pipe. Simply drill a 57mm hole in the soil pipe and attach the connector. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

Google Search

M3 Bi Metal Holesaw

This heavy-duty 57mm holesaw from Toolpak is tough enough to take on all kinds of cutting tasks. Featuring an M3 bi-metal cutting edge and 4/6tpi variable pitch teeth, you'll be sure of fast and easy cutting through a variety of materials - and long-lasting performance.A tried and trusted choice...

www.toolstation.com

 

[meccarroll]

Have a look at these 3 links. The second link is an instruction video

McAlpine Mechanical Pipe Boss Connector Black 40mm - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Connects to 110mm soil pipe and will accept waste water or condensate discharge via a 40mm waste pipe. Simply drill a 57mm hole in the soil pipe and attach the connector. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

Google Search

M3 Bi Metal Holesaw

This heavy-duty 57mm holesaw from Toolpak is tough enough to take on all kinds of cutting tasks. Featuring an M3 bi-metal cutting edge and 4/6tpi variable pitch teeth, you'll be sure of fast and easy cutting through a variety of materials - and long-lasting performance.A tried and trusted choice...

www.toolstation.com

Thank you for this but after all the input and giving it some thought I'm hoping I can use the existing connection. I think the original will work but if not I now have a lot of good ideas to help get over the connection.

 

[meccarroll]

Looks like a Magnet kitchen !View attachment 27647

I think my daughter would rather like that kitchen Roger. The original design was done by Homebase and to supply only in plastic laminate would be £4,500 but they said for Lacqure (paint finish) it would be around £7,500. After a discussion tonight It looks like the washing machine is going in the cupboard and I may now be able to draw up the final design in CAD and then use the Blum Cabinet Designer Software to work out the hardware obtain drilling positions for the hardware and actual cabinet component sizes.

 

[meccarroll]

Tangent: Does your daughter have kids and use lots of dishes?
Then, I recommend.... wait for it... TWO dishwashers. It's the best most efficient thing you can do in your kitchen. No more emptying clean dishes in a cupboard only to take them back out. No more dirty dishes piling up in the sink or worktop. You have a 'clean' dishwasher, and the other 'dirty' dishwasher. When the cycle is done, the dirty becomes the clean, and the clean is emptied (it will only have a couple of things left in it) and it becomes the 'dirty' dishwasher.

You will think about this for two weeks now, while trying to sleep, and realise how genius this is.

You're welcome (in advance).

But seriously, this is worth considering.

They are on a very tight budget and have to keep their original free standing washing machine. I think they would love to be able to afford even one dishwasher but they can't so as good as your suggestion may be it won't be able to take effect in their kitchen I'm afraid. Thank you though.

 

[StevieB]

I am sure your daughter has looked around, but when we did our kitchen (admittedly a few years ago now) Homebase were nowhere near competitive on price - we found Wickes and Ikea to be best, although that may have changed in the interim. Waiting until a sale can also save a lot (if the kitchen you want is in the sale) so after xmas, around Easter and August bank holiday if not an urgent need for one immediately?

 

[9fingers]

Make the trap from threaded compression fitting so they can be taken off to allow cleaning the pipe. If you do use solvent weld fittings then include a rodding eye in line with the main pipe.

 

[meccarroll]

Make the trap from threaded compression fitting so they can be taken off to allow cleaning the pipe. If you do use solvent weld fittings then include a rodding eye in line with the main pipe.

That makes sence, so nice to obtain these suggestions, should make life easier later on. Mark

 

[meccarroll]

I am sure your daughter has looked around, but when we did our kitchen (admittedly a few years ago now) Homebase were nowhere near competitive on price - we found Wickes and Ikea to be best, although that may have changed in the interim. Waiting until a sale can also save a lot (if the kitchen you want is in the sale) so after xmas, around Easter and August bank holiday if not an urgent need for one immediately?

To help save on cost I am the prime target to make the kitchen (I'm a carpenter/Joiner)! I have made a lot of windows, doors, cabinets but very very few kitchens and not recently so am on a learning curve using new technology on this one but am trying to help them achieve a new kitchen on their small budget. I have an edge bander (recently purchased) so will buy melamine faced board and edge it also hoping to make use of my CNC to profile the components. I don't have a heated workshop/spray boothe so It needs to be done in the warmer weather for spraying and drying (I have the spray equipment). Now I have a green light on design I just have to draw it in CAD and move on to obtian pricing mainly on the hardware which I'm hoping they can afford Blum (will make life so easy). Thank you for your input so far I appreciate it. Mark

 

[StevieB]

Ah, apologies, I clearly misunderstood!

 

[meccarroll]

Ah, apologies, I clearly misunderstood!

No please don't apologise I'm not always that clear when I describe a situation and ask for ideas and I really do appreciate any input, your experience is relevant and useful to know. I will be drawing the layout of the kitchen in CAD this week and then hopefully obtain some feedback on hardware prices to see if Blum is within budget.

 

[RogerS]

You definitely have a plan going there...just one question. What is this 'warmer' weather you're talking about ?

 

[meccarroll]

You definitely have a plan going there...just one question. What is this 'warmer' weather you're talking about ?

I have mainly sprayed Cellulose and Acid Catalised Paints Roger, I can find good spots in the weather from May/June on to the the end of October.

For futniture I have mainly sprayed Acid Catalised paints which are fast drying, Cellulose is a lot slower to dry.

Because Acid Catalised is fast drying any overspray landing on a newly sprayed item will stick to the surface making it like sandpaper so after I spray each item I take it outside away from the overspray to fully dry.

Your question has prompted me to think that on this occasion I should make a drying rack, and use better extraction with filter. Maybe a turntable too.

I should be using water based spray paint for the first time on this kitchen so another new experience.