Listed Building? Or wishful thinking?

[RogerS]

House we are interested in is stated as being Grade 2 Listed. But it doesn’t appear on the National List nor any local list such as HER. Looking it up on the local authority records has no indication either. So does that mean it’s just wishful thinking and so I can knock down an internal wall.

 

[Blackswanwood]

If the building is Grade II listed any material changes need listed building consent. Changing the layout of a property is usually classed as material.

There are Amenity Societies who (in the case of the Georgian Society for us) give helpful and free advice. The details of them will be on Historic England’s site.

Historic England maintain the list of listed buildings. Some people confuse being in a conservation zone with being listed. That happened when we bought our house - the listing wasn’t mentioned and the estate agent’s excuse was that he thought they were one and the same thing! In broad terms being in a conservation zone means tighter planning rules which apply only to external features of the property.

Exciting times for you - good luck with it!

 

[Mike G]

This website is exhaustive. If it isn't on there, it isn't listed. You can search by county and village. Be very careful, though, because building names change, and some listed buildings aren't named, but are given as "X metres from .....". You could also ask the estate agent to confirm the listing.

I don't think people think of being listed as a positive when it comes to selling a house, because they know that it is restrictive and will reduce the number of people who are interested in it. I have never come across false claims of listing, probably because I don't think there is a motive.

 

[Trevanion]

Have you tried Historic England’s map and looking for it on there? On the Welsh version often houses are listed as they are on ordnance survey maps so the name listed might not be exactly the same as what’s on the house itself which may make it more difficult for look for.

https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/map-search

 

[Tiresias]

This website is exhaustive. If it isn't on there, it isn't listed. You can search by county and village. Be very careful, though, because building names change, and some listed buildings aren't named, but are given as "X metres from .....". You could also ask the estate agent to confirm the listing.

I don't think people think of being listed as a positive when it comes to selling a house, because they know that it is restrictive and will reduce the number of people who are interested in it. I have never come across false claims of listing, probably because I don't think there is a motive.

I think there may be exceptions MikeG. The top categories/grades of listing do carry an element of cachet. ‘outstanding, special interest, &c.’. You know what people can be like. Still, you can’t lie about it effectively for any length of time as it is a matter of public record.

The Scottish version of the listing site – Historic Environment Scotland - (no use to RogerS, obviously) has a map option toggle, which takes out a bit of the guess work on addresses. Maybe your English sites have the same option? It’s a long time since I practiced in England.

It also occurs to me that in some areas (Edinburgh New Town for example) any period property will be at least category B listed. But some may have slipped through the net. So, someone could make an assumption. But, again, it would be found out in the conveyancing process.

I’ve found the Listing chaps to be reasonable. Whilst there are some cases where they seem to be obstructive, its generally because the applicant has acted like a whatsit.

 

[PAC1]

I think there may be exceptions MikeG. The top categories/grades of listing do carry an element of cachet. ‘outstanding, special interest, &c.’. You know what people can be like. Still, you can’t lie about it effectively for any length of time as it is a matter of public record.

The Scottish version of the listing site – Historic Environment Scotland - (no use to RogerS, obviously) has a map option toggle, which takes out a bit of the guess work on addresses. Maybe your English sites have the same option? It’s a long time since I practiced in England.

It also occurs to me that in some areas (Edinburgh New Town for example) any period property will be at least category B listed. But some may have slipped through the net. So, someone could make an assumption. But, again, it would be found out in the conveyancing process.

I’ve found the Listing chaps to be reasonable. Whilst there are some cases where they seem to be obstructive, its generally because the applicant has acted like a whatsit.

In 25 years of Grade II ownership, I have found the Listed Building/ Conservation officers to vary from incredibly helpful to downright obstructive. The real problem is the lack of consistency and the degree of freedom to interpret the rules how they feel.

 

[Cabinetman]

Celebration when our complete pita retired, shading on the front of our house where louvred shutters had been years ago was evidence for him that the windows had been twice as wide at some point, and he was looking at us! Totally without reason or knowledge.
Ian

 

[Lons]

I've worked on a number of listed buildings and have dealt with some very helpful officers who not only listened but actively tried to find solutions to problems also some very bad ones who did everything they could to obstruct and delay perfectly legitimate and reasonable plans. Almost as if they hoped the clients bothering them would give up.
On the last grade 2 listed stable one of them admitted he would rather see it fall down than be restored.

 

[Mike G]

A few points. Firstly, many if not most councils have abolished Listed Buildings Officers, and now use outside consultants (normally the same people, but now in the private sector).

Most listed buildings professionals are knowledgeable and helpful, in my experience. Many are overwhelmed with the the amount of work they have on their plate. The occasional one, though, can be a little Hitler. I was called in to help with a listed building in which some over-enthusiastic volunteers had begun some repairs they shouldn't have, and I was appointed less than 10 minutes before the listed building guy arrived on site. His first words to me were "you are aiding and abetting a criminal offence, and I will be gathering evidence on your part in it to give to the CPS". Unauthorised work on a listed building can indeed be a criminal offence, but my only role had been to say "stop work everyone....immediately".

 

[RogerS]

Many thanks all for the suggestions. It’s not Listed !

 

[Artiglio]

It’s worth remembering that a councils Listed Building Duties are discretionary and the fees they can charge in no way cover the costs. Which is why many push you towards pre application advice, which effectively is a full application that you pay whatever fee they feel fit ( as it falls outside the fee system set by gov), so when you actually submit your application its effectively already agreed, my council takes a dim view of those that don’t use the pre application route.
The CO of old was a very knowledgable and helpful chap and had no truck with such things, he got sidelined and replaced by a recent graduate whose first communication included “ you’ll be liable for any unauthorised works that have taken place prior to your ownership” at that point they’d not even been there and it later transpired they had no records other than that they’d given listed building consent 30 years before.
The whole process was a farce, they only want to say “no”, wouldn’t offer any guidance as to what should be submitted next and argued over the slightest error on drawings. ( at the same time the council turned a blind eye whilst a listed building had the guts ripped out of it by a private contractor that was preparing a facility the council was going to lease for 3 years, works went ahead for 4 months with no permissions in place and then a retrospective application sailed straight through).
I eventually got permission, and in the final analysis it had no really onerous conditions and i never saw them again.
I was later told that so long as they get no complaints and you make reasonable efforts to improve the condition of the building they’ll leave you alone.
The whole system needs an overview, vast numbers of listed buildings have no real future in a net zero expensive energy world, if the run of the mill Grade 2 listings are to still be here in 100 years a new system/ approach is needed.