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SamQ aka Ah! Q!

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AndyT or Adidat might be able to answer this 'off the bat', but I utterly cannot find the answer anywhere:

I am tempted to make a marking gauge, a la Wearing, but am NOT minded to employ the brass insert and thumb screw so beloved of 99.99998% of all makers posting on W.W.W.. I'd like to use a wooden screw. Question: what size tap for the stock and die for the knob should I use? Where do you get them?

I am repelled by those awful 'yalla plaskit' knobs sold by various emporiums, but will use them if I have to. But the tap? Can't get around that?
 
Threads direct into wood are typically much more coarse than your usual metal threads, but if you've got a particularly hard wood like Boxwood you can use regular taps and dies, I have also seen some people use superglue to harden threads in softer woods but whether this actually works is another question.

Axminster sell wood tap and die sets with the coarser thread, but quite expensive for what I assume will be a one-off project at around £40 a set?
 
Sam, I know that Derek Jones, one of past editors of F&C, does a rather nice line in just the sort of marking gauge your after; steel pin, traditional wooden knob etc but I fancy you'd need deep pockets to purchase one. I've made a few gauges of various sorts but have used a sliding wedge to hold the stem to the stock. Agree though, that the yellow plastic knobs are pretty naff...I think Derek uses Bog Oak or similar - Rob
 
"Thank you" Dan and Rob.

The Axminster one sounds like what I was after, but you're right: "spendy!".
As for the gorgeous models Derek sells (I saw one in F&C) both price ("Mega spendy!") and sheer opulence are a step, nay, marathon, away from the utilitarian 'everyday' user I contemplated making.

I think it's time for a design decision. I will go with a brass insert and thumb screw. Mehhh.
 
I've got a few options.

Old battered marking gauges are cheap. You could probably find some with decent screws. Then you could even trim away the stock around the threaded hole, leaving a plug that you could glue into a hole in your new gauge.

I do have one of the ubiquitous Chinese sets, which is probably what Axi are selling. It's 3/4", which is too big anyway.

I can direct you to the instructions for making your own, if you don't mind a side project on the way.

Nice old ones are not very common and seem to get highish prices on eBay. I'd be reluctant to buy one for a one off.

But I do have a small one, 1/2" size I think, which would be about right.

Perhaps we could arrange a collaboration?

You could send me your bits to thread, or I could send you the tools to borrow for a while.

I'll check sizes etc later on and see if that would work for you.

By the way, there's a puzzle about the end of the wooden thumbscrew. They all used to have a notch at the top. Apparently nobody knows why!
 
Andy, those offers are extremely generous, "Thank you". As you know, I visit No3 in Bristol betimes, so let's see if we can collaborate indeed. I might go for the postal.option though, me paying both ways, as his builder is just about to demolish and rebuild his kitchen and bathroom, starting Monday week. 😳 Will be in touch.

As to making my own, direct away please. I volunteer in a heritage railway and the retired engineers there have quite a few toys to play with.

Sam
 
FWIW I have had some success in using taps and dies with lignum vitae for the die and yew or walnut for the tap. Nothing so small as what would be needed for a marking gauge . I would not be put off from trying though.
I have plenty of LV available (lawn green bowls) if you would like to try.
IMG_20191201_152656168.jpeg
 
Hi Sam

I've got a range of taps and dies in various sizes, there will almost definitely be something in there you could borrow that would do the job. I can also give you some well seasoned boxwood and possibly small bits of lig vi to experiment with
You'll even get a cuppa and a biscuit off my missus if you pick them up, or I can drop off next time near your gaff. Give me a shout.

Just another thought, I also have quite a number of old tools for manually theading on a lathe. They are paired up and I've never used them don't know if for metal or wood but interesting and maybe something to consider. I must post some pics for Andy's opinion.
 
Andy and Bob, you are absolute stars; this is the kind of support that makes this Forum just that ittle bit special.

Will be in touch; presently hustling to drive the 90 miles to No1's bombsite of a flat to "Daddy? D.I.Y.? Pretty please?":rolleyes:
 
Sam, I'd forgotten about your visits to Bristol - that could of course provide a more sociable sort of collaboration.

Here's what I have, alongside a random old gauge to get the size.

This is a nice one, with a good tap and even a little sample piece. Diameter is 15/16".

IMG_20240413_090730.jpg
This one is slightly bigger, 1/2". The tap is a home made one. Having tried, I think I could probably make a better one now.
IMG_20240413_090706.jpg

And Lons, are these thread chasers what you mean? I too have a few.

IMG_20240413_091536.jpg
 
Jings, Andy, did you just bustle 'down below' on my account? In that short time? Appreciated!! I think I would not allow you to risk such nice kit to the vagaries of Royal Snail; let's do the social whatjamacallit? Pints on me.
 
Hi Andy, those thread chasers, I'd forgotten they were called that, are exactly what I have. There are probably at least couple of dozen including duplicates. I'd bundled them together yonks ago intending to stick some on ebay but never got around to it.

I know you said the reason for the thumbscrew notch is unknown but do you have any theories?
 
Lons said:
I know you said the reason for the thumbscrew notch is unknown but do you have any theories?
Click to expand...
Not in any detail, but I think it must have been something to do with how they were fixed on a lathe to turn down the cylinrical part, and possibly for holding them in a jig to saw down the "cheeks". I'll see if I can take some useful photos later.
 
I suspect it might have been because that would have been very thin and more fragile at that point? So take it away to save damage later? Only a guess. Can’t say I’d ever noticed the notch before- interesting.
Ian
 
Obviously it will be very nice to do it properly with cut threads etc, but if you just want the tool, maybe a one off extra large one? You could make the thread part from a captured nut in the stock and a ring bolt as the thumbscrew, a piece of Formica held in place to stop damage to the shaft, done this a few times on jigs, works a treat.
412983A9-E96F-46EA-B5DC-A2EFE8E70A49.png
 
Thanks Ian. I'm in no rush, but if I urgently need an extra one, that method sounds like a typical workshop fixup: no frills, but it does what it says on the tin!👍
 
I prefer the wedge type of marking gauge, I have made a few in the past, usualy for the secret santa on the other forum.

Marking gauges by Pete Maddex, on Flickr

They are easy to make its a block with a hole drilled in it and a wedge, o/k you need to make and harden the cutters, but thats not to difficult.

Pete
 
Cheers Pete, trés nice. I have an unreasonable bias against the wedge method (unreasonable, because I've never handled one) because I suspect they could slip when tightening? That said, I note some practitioners nedcto tighten brass knobs using plastic-lined pliers...😧 Swings'n'roundabouts innit?.
 
They are easy to adjust, set the gap a but to small then you push the wedge up to give a little friction, tap the end of the stem to adjust, then tap the wedge on the edge of the bench to lock it, they are really secure.

Pete
 
Hi Sam

Looking for something else today I've found an old knocked about guage with a wood thumbscrew. Needs cleaning up a bit bit it's perfecgtly useable and your's if you want it.
Still no reason not to make yourself a more fancy one but maybe takes the pressure off.
 
Pete, I've seen your gauges and they are, indeed beautiful. But, like Sam, I've always thought that they would be prone to moving when tightening, because the wedge is in line with the stock. Now, knowing your work, I assume it is not a problem for you, but have you ever made one with the wedge across the stock? That would wedge just as securely and not have the risk of moving along the stock.
 
Hi Steve

With a box or rosewood low angle wedge and maple end grain being very hard surfaces I have no slipping problems. Many thousand wooden planes don’t have slipping problems and the force on the blade is much higher.
I haven’t made a sideways wedge one I haven’t had any problems with mine that a sideways wedge would solve.

Pete
 
Steve Maskery said:
Pete, I've seen your gauges and they are, indeed beautiful. But, like Sam, I've always thought that they would be prone to moving when tightening, because the wedge is in line with the stock. Now, knowing your work, I assume it is not a problem for you, but have you ever made one with the wedge across the stock? That would wedge just as securely and not have the risk of moving along the stock.
Click to expand...
I'm inclined to agree about the wedge moving issue, but in truth I've never used one. Some years ago I did though, make a few gauges with the wedge going across the stem:

IMG_2686.jpeg

This is the pencil gauge version in Wenge using an ebony wedge, with an added 'saddle' to apply a lot more pressure on the stem. The stock looks like a bit of Chinese puzzle to assemble but it's actually made in three bits glued together, so relatively straight forward - Rob
 
Sam
This is the old guage I found in a drawer, you're welcome to it if of any use. I can't see any markings so it's of doubtful parentage. :D No thumbscrew notch either.
 

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Andy

These are the thread chasers I have, 42 of them. o_O
 

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Lons said:
Andy

These are the thread chasers I have, 42 of them. o_O
Click to expand...
That's an excellent collection!

I have done some experiments with these on my treadle powered screw cutting lathe. Although it's designed for metal, I've managed to make internal threads in hardwood with them. Because the lathe can be set to cut at the correct pitch, there's no need for clever timing to make a neat thread.
For the external threads, I got better results with a clamped on carving v-tool.
 
Just something else I never got around to trying Andy. I can't remember where I aquired them but it was a very long time ago.
 
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