Mike's ext'n & renovation (solar panels)

[Mike G]

I've not said much about this, because we were awaiting planning permission. Well, against the officer's recommendation, and by the skin of our teeth, (6 votes to 5, with 1 abstention), we received permission at a council meeting this evening. This is a really major project, with an extension nearly the size of the existing house, then a strip-to-the-frame of the existing before rebuilding.

This is why I was in a hurry to get the workshop finished, (and maybe a bit stroppier than I might have been normally earlier).

I'll post some drawings here shortly, but this evening I am a very relieved chap.

 

[RogerS]

Many many congratulations, Mike.

I'll be looking forward to the 'build' WIP !

 

[stephen.wood125]

Congratulations must have been a lot of burnt sage to get by planners!

Can't wait for the thread- knowing the speed you work at it will be done by October! :lol:

No seriously though, will be watching this with great interest!

Thanks

 

[Mike G]

.......Can't wait for the thread- knowing the speed you work at it will be done by October! :lol:........

Yep, it will....... but whether that's Oct 2015 or Oct 2016 it's hard to say at the moment .

 

[TrimTheKing]

Great news, congratulations Mike.

Looking forward to it already.

Cheers
Mark

 

[Wizard9999]

Congrats Mike, sounds like it was a close one!

Just to balance things out, I have spent the whole evening at a council meeting hearing why because my locall council had their local plan rejected by govt. inspectors there is free for all for local land owners and the guy who owns the field behind us now stands a very good chance of getting consent to build 100 houses.

Like others I very much look forward to hearing more about your plans - I'm expecting a lot of interesting stuff to come, but don't forget to finish the workshop first!

Terry.

 

[9fingers]

Can I add my congratulations too Mike. Must be quite a relief for you.

Triggered off by Terry's comment...
Our local plan (Test Valley) has only just gone to the inspectors. It contains huge housing expansion plans -1300 near me and 350 a couple of miles away and all to the financial benefit of a single landowner for both! It has taken a long time and lots of public meetings before it was passed at local level. We are a small country town and just don't have the infrastructure to support the extra population. The plan for example contains no new schools or doctors!
Most residents want neither the density of housing or a free for all so i really don't know what I would like the outcome of the inspector to be.

Bob

 

[AndyP]

Yep, can't wait to see you attack those fancy scarf joints.

BTW Planning issues continue here too. Even in our wee village dozens of new houses going up yet school canteen can't cope already and the infants school is overcrowded - no plans of course to increase either

 

[9fingers]

Yep, can't wait to see you attack those fancy scarf joints.

BTW Planning issues continue here too. Even in our wee village dozens of new houses going up yet school canteen can't cope already and the infants school is overcrowded - no plans of course to increase either

Andy, We were surprised to see the amount of new build houses on our journey from Caen to Bayeux yesterday. Obviously some money about despite what we hear of the austerity programme in France - gov't resigning over it etc

Bob

 

[Wizard9999]

Mike

Sorry if i have diverted this thread away from your good news. I have therefore started a new thread on planning and housing development in the retreat so this thread can return to its original purpose.

Terry.

 

[Mike G]

Thanks all.

Yep planning policy can be more than a little opaque. In my case, I negotiated with the Planning Officers prior to the application, and made all the alterations they asked for. I was therefore somewhat surprised, if not a little irked, to have them recommend refusal..........on the grounds that the extension was too deep, despite having written to me previously that their only concern was the height. One man, 2 opinions.

I will be finishing the workshop first, albeit without completing the overhangs, nor slating the roof, before I start work on the new extension. The principle is that we build the new extension whilst living in the old part of the house. Once the extension is finished, we move into that, and strip the old part to its frame. Once that is re-built we knock the two together and live in the whole building.

 

[Mike G]

Here are the Planning drawings, stripped of addresses etc.......

Firstly, Plans, with Existing at the top, and Proposed below:



Then Existing Elevations:



The finally Proposed Elevations:



There is a lot of detail not in Planning drawings, particularly of the internals. The outside it pretty well covered by the drawings, but the inside is going to be all oak framing with infill panels of herringbone brickwork, plaster, and leaded lights. You can see that the extension is in principle a "double pile", where basically a copy of the existing cottage is built behind it, with parallel rooves. This has been complicated by the planners in this instance, because despite all the neighbouring properties being of this form with full length rear 2 storey elements, they wanted me to shorten the roofline of the extension. I achieved this by putting a single storey outshot over the lounge, which is a bit of a compromise and will certainly complicate the structure.

You may also notice that I will be removing the existing chimney. The house isn't listed (it was probably built around 1700 to 1750), and was really badly renovated in the 1970s. Someone rendered over the inglenook with a the hardest sand/ cement render I have ever come across, thus ruining all the brickwork permanently. They also took away the bressumer. So, I will take the chimney down, (its location was a damn nuisance anyway), and re-use the bricks (turning them over so that the wrecked face is hidden) in building a new fireplace in the new lounge.

 

[TrimTheKing]

Looks good Mike

You also landed a title with that Mansion…?

Cheers
Mark

 

[Mike G]

That 3.6 metre deep mansion, you mean?

 

[TrimTheKing]

That 3.6 metre deep mansion, you mean?

That's current size surely…?

 

[Wizard9999]

Mike

Irrespective of size, looks to me like it will be a very handsome house when you have finished.

Terry.

 

[Mike G]

I have been a little held up by work, and by a shed I am building , but finally, I started work on the house today. I had to, because the workshop boarding has got this far:



.... and I can't go up the gables until the undercloaking is in place, and the undercloaking is reclaimed slate from these rooves:



This single storey lean to arrangement is what requires demolition:



I made a little model to explain to the Planners what I was up to, and it might help understand the proposals. Here is the existing, front and back:





Here is the proposal, front, South East, and North East:







Me, holding the model:



Incidentally, the thing which probably swayed the vote in my favour at the Planning Meeting was the model of what I could build without Planning Permission, using my Permitted development rights. Nice, innit?







Anyway, back to the demolition. Here is the view from the other side, showing the side door which was broken into whilst the house stood empty last winter (we only bought it in July). They stole all the plumbing, leaving water pouring into the house for 3 or 4 days:



That's how the thieves got in:



The inside of the former kitchen which I will be removing shortly (the new kitchen I built in a week in the old dining room, and is visible through the open door.........soon to be blocked up permanently.).







The larder door lining isn't quite at its best at the moment:



Finally, I removed the woodstore in one piece, with a view to erecting it alongside one of the other sheds in the garden to increase our storage:


It put up a bit of a fight, but I won.

 

[Wizard9999]

Me, holding the model:



Incidentally, the thing which probably swayed the vote in my favour at the Planning Meeting was the model of what I could build without Planning Permission, using my Permitted development rights. Nice, innit?

:text-bravo:

Nice to put a face to the name!

And, love the trick of saying let me build the nice extension I want, because otherwise I might use permitted development to build this monstrosity! Cracking.

Looking forward to this thread.

Terry.

 

[the bear]

Mike
Looks like you'll get a cracking house, I like the design/layout. I'm no expert so how does it work that you can build that huge extension under PD but have to have permission for what you want?
I'm really interested as I move next week and want to do an extension where we are going. Any ideas on getting planning permission in an AONB/greenbelt (no PD regardless of previous development or not, mines had none, original 60s chalet bungalow only)
Mark

 

[Mike G]

Hi Mark.

We needed Planning Permission because PD (in our case) allows massive single storey extensions but only modest 2 storey ones. We wanted a 2 storey extension substantially bigger than allowed under PD. Furthermore, we are planning to change the roof material from slate to clay plain tiles, and for this, we need to raise the pitch of the roof. In any circumstances this would require a Planning Application.

In your circumstances, you should employ a local architect to advise on your extension. Generally, extensions in the countryside are more tightly controlled than within village envelopes or in urban areas, but each Local Authority will have its own local policies. If the house is unaltered from when it was built, you will almost certainly be allowed to build a well-designed extension, but you will need a professional to advise you and design it.

Mike

 

[the bear]

Thanks Mike.
Now I understand, didn't realise PD differentiated like that, just thought it was based on footprint or volume.
I have already had round a couple of people prior to buying the house, who said something similar to you. I have found a couple of guys who have got the planning through on a development further up the road. They work a lot in my new area and are based in the next village so hopefully they have plenty of local knowledge and relationship with the planners.
Best of luck with yours build.

Mark

 

[Mike G]

I needed to block up the back door into the old kitchen, prior to demolishing it, but when I took the architrave off, this greeted me:



This is a view through the rotten door liner to the rotten oak frame behind. Completely and utterly rotten and gone. It isn't a huge surprise, given it's location.

I cleaned it up a bit, screwed a bit of timber onto the bricks, insulated, and boarded up the door. This insulation here in the door is more than in the rest of the house put together:





The roof of the larder was quickly removed, but the state of the slates was alarming. Remember I was hoping to re-use them.



I tried to take the slates off the old kitchen roof individually, but again, they were so soft and friable that I only got 4 or 5 off whole over the whole of the roof. They simply aren't re-usable. I really don't like slates, because of this deterioration.





Loads of rubbish:



I saw some droppings on the flat ceiling of the old kitchen. I wonder what could have done these?



This'll be the culprit:


A big fat rat.

Here's its partner:



Further up the roof was an old bees' nest:



And close by a wasps' nest:


Apparently wasps will often follow bees into a roof..........if you have bees one year the chances are you'll have wasps in the same place next year.

This roof was older than I thought, and had had a couple of interventions. Firstly, it must have had a ceiling under the rafters at some stage (hence the laths.........no sign of any plaster though, oddly). The main roof timbers are pine, but half-round, and not straight.The nails are cut nails. So, I'm thinking early 20th century or late 19th century. Clearly someone had re-roofed this outshot, using felt underlay. I'd guess this puts it (say) 1960 onwards. They had added some secondary timbers to the side of the rafters to try to straighten things up a bit. I assume the slates date from then. So about 50 years old, and not strong enough to support the weight of a sparrow........



You can see the original back wall of the house through the gap in the laths.

Plenty of active woodworm. No surprise, given that this is an unventilated roofspace, and an unheated house:



Standing on the modern ceiling joists, using a shovel to break the laths off.



Then off came the rafters, and I took the top 6 feet of chimney down too. The top couple of feet had been rebuilt using rock-hard sand cement mortar, wrecking all the bricks in the process. below that, the lime mortar meant that all the bricks will be re-usable:



I then got rather side-tracked into pruning a couple of greengage trees.

 

[Wizard9999]

So, what will you be using on the roof of the workshop Mike?

Terry.

 

[Mike G]

The slates on the main roof of the house are fine. I unfolded a couple of tingles and pulled the slates out, and they're thick, strong, and "crispy" rather than the soggy, soft things on the outshot rooves. So I'll be using those. However, that doesn't solve my immediate need, which is for some undercloaking, so I'll buy a few new slates for that. That will enable me to finish the boarding.

 

[Mike G]

I have done virtually nothing to the house or workshop over the last fortnight because of work commitments, but having finished that lot on Friday I am free to resume. Here is the current state of play with the house:





Frustratingly, the above elevation (with the window & door), and the adjoining wall around to the chimney, have been rebuilt using a rock hard mortar, so not only is it hard work to take apart, but none of the bricks are re-usable. Luckily, the chimney and everything past it, is in lime mortar, and so the bricks are fine. Really, there are some complete idiots in this world, and anyone who thinks 150 year old soft reds should be bedded in a 3:1 cement mortar is firmly in that category. And here is further evidence (presumably the same person).........."Look, no lintel!! That saved some money."



Luckily the window seems to have not suffered as a result, because this is the window that I want to transfer to my workshop.

The weather is set fair tomorrow, there is nothing in the calender, and so I should have a clear run at building work tomorrow and for the foreseeable future.

 

[Mike G]

Finally my back relented enough to enable me to do a few hours of demolition.



I have the window from this facade out in one piece, and ready to be fitted into my workshop. It isn't good enough for a long term solution, but will do for a stop-gap.

I liked this:



A slate damp proof course. It comprised about 10 layers of slate bonded in a strong mortar, totalling over 50mm in depth overall.

Here is the exposed corner post. Can you see any sign of the sole plate? No, neither can I. I think it has turned to compost.



Further up the corner post. I love this big square-cut nail:



This is the M & T holding the 1st floor plate to the corner post. This is surprisingly good, which I'm pleased about. The peg looks sound. There's hope!!



I'm working down the chimney. To the left is the rebuilt brickwork, making the bricks non-salvageable, but everything else is in lime mortar and the bricks are stacking away nicely for re-use later.



I'll be alternating work on the workshop and the house for the next few days, before hopefully starting foundations on the house early next week.

 

[Mike G]

Here's a little tease. A sketch section with a wall elevation from the bedroom, showing a raised-tie roof with two crown posts and a ridge purlin, braced. I am considering using green sweet chestnut instead of oak. I'll make up my mind in the timber yard in due course. The traditional timberwork will be structural, and of course the ceiling will be vaulted. Note also the close-studding downstairs to the kitchen wall, with herringbone brick infill panelling.

 

[StevieB]

Tease indeed Mike - I can imagine that is going to look fantastic in due course - especially if you put the same attention to detail into the house as you have into the workshop (which I am sure you will!).

Can I just add my thanks to you for such impressive documenting of both builds - I am learning a lot and I consider myself to be a more than competent DIY-er. No matter how much we think we know, there is always more to learn if we are willing to let ourselves be educated!

Steve

 

[TrimTheKing]

Looks great Mike

Keep them coming.

Cheers
Mark

 

[9fingers]

Interesting to see your slate DPC so thick? Is that normal?

My house (was a bungalow), built in 1925, handmade brick & lime mortar exterior and 3" cinder block inner skin, has single pieces of slate 5-10mm thick on each skin but keeps dry.
Foundations are 6" thick and 6" below ground - built on gravel about 500mm over clay.
It was a nightmare when building extensions on each end and we ended up with huge amounts of concrete under the new parts tying into the tiny strip foundations of the existing.

Having recently had to rebuild one outer skin due to blown ties, we have a plastic DPC now so only one side of the four still has slate DPC and that is north facing and sheltered next door less than 3/4 metre away.

Following both your threads with great interest.

Bob

 

[Mike G]

Interesting to see your slate DPC so thick? Is that normal?.....Bob

I've never seen it that thick before Bob. I would normally expect 2 courses of slate, with the joints staggered. The only thing I can think of was that they might have used the slate course to get brick courses to match up with the existing. I won't really know that until I get into the ground and see where the foundations are for the extension I am demolishing. The house has no foundations, just a thickening of the brickwork at the bottom of the wall.

 

[RogerS]

.....The house has no foundations, just a thickening of the brickwork at the bottom of the wall.

Ditto. And our house is very very slowly drifting apart and sliding down the hill.

 

[Mike G]

But yours is timber framed, Roger, isn't it? If the frame is intact, it may drift down the hill, but the bulk of the house will stay intact.

 

[Mike G]

I plodded on today, taking bricks off one at a time, and bar a couple of dozen at shin height, I finished.



It's spot-the-sole-plate time again. The top of the brickwork should be completely covered by a big lump of oak. There is nothing at all there. I'm going to be cutting in long sections of new plate when I start work on the existing part of the house next spring.



Back to work on the workshop tomorrow.

 

[Mike G]

A digger turned up on site over the weekend, and on Monday I pushed over the last of the brickwork of the demolition with it, and piled up the hardcore in a neat heap.

This is the plan (I have no idea why the existing house doesn't show up):



I spent half a day setting things out using profiles:



There is an awful lot of thinking involved in getting all the edges of foundations (or centres, depending on your preference), and face of masonry set out correctly on site. The difficulties were exacerbated in my case by having a rear wall that curves all over the place, and is a very long way from 90 degrees with the end wall. You just have to make a decision as to what are your reference points, and get on with it.........There'll be some interesting carpentry later to get over the variations.

Luckily, it was a calm day on Monday, because string lines blowing around are a nightmare when setting out. With everything marked out on profiles (set a long way back from the building so as to allow diggers plenty of room to manoeuvre), the next stage is to transfer the lines to the ground. Using a spirit level held vertically against the line to locate it, I put a scaffold board on the ground and tap a shovel full of lime along its edge. Others may do something a bit more sophisticated, no doubt.



Unfortunately, this was today's job, and with the tail end of a hurricane, the lines were blowing all over the place. So, I set the profiles out to the nearest millimeter, but the lime lines were just a best guess.

I then hopped on the digger and started digging.

I knew there was clay, but I was utterly delighted to find that it was a dry chalky clay. In fact...very chalky. I haven't worked with this before, but let me assure you.....it's good news! :eusa-dance: The white bits are lumps of chalk:





I dug a metre down, and rang the Building Inspector. I didn't want to get too far before he confirmed I was OK with the depth. He was out shortly, and after inspecting the adjacent hedge, he confirmed that 1 metre below current ground level, with steps away from the corners (the ground slopes), was fine. I had to agree to remove 2 small hawthorn bushes from the hedge, otherwise one of the foundations would have to be an extra 500mm deeper.

The other good news is that a ground bearing slab is fine. This is really important, because the house has had its floors lowered, and to make this work, they lowered the ground level around the house, such that it is the lowest point for quite a way around, and particularly, is lower than the road. If I couldn't have a ground bearing slab, a suspended floor involves a void, and this would have been permanently full of water in the winter, I reckon.......and that is a really bad idea.

Here is the little section of foundation for the Utility Room, with 450 wide trenches (a different wall construction than the rest of the building).



I then did some more marking out, swapped to a 600 bucket, and got on with the main trenches. The weather was so damned awful that I abandoned the camera indoors, so I have got quite a bit further than shows in these photos.



Tomorrow we have a muck-away truck first thing, then finish the digging with the machine.........then down into the trench to clean up the bottoms, and square off the corners. Hopefully, all being well, concrete on Thursday. DON'T FORGET THE DUCT FOR THE WATER MAIN, MIKE!!!

 

[TrimTheKing]

Why lime mike? Is that in lieu of using a marking out spray?

Cheers
Mark

 

[Mike G]

Yes, exactly that Mark.

I had half a bag of old lime kicking around, and just did what builders have done for centuries.....long before marking sprays were invented.

 

[firedfromthecircus]

Can I just add my thanks to you for such impressive documenting of both builds - I am learning a lot and I consider myself to be a more than competent DIY-er. No matter how much we think we know, there is always more to learn if we are willing to let ourselves be educated!

Steve

:text-+1: :text-bravo:

 

[Mike G]

It was an excellent day today. Any day you finish digging foundations and order concrete is a great day. Getting concrete in the ground is even better!!

The digger driver came today, so it wasn't just me on my own with a small machine. He had a big machine, which cleared the site beautifully, and loaded 20 tonnes onto the muck-away truck that the smaller digger wouldn't even have reached.





I'm standing on a digger's roof for this one, so please excuse the wonky horizon. The marking out on the left is for the chimney (I'll explain further into the build......there isn't really a chimney), and for some oak-framed internal walls.



The concrete base of the old kitchen is really useful, so we're keeping it as long as we can, albeit nibbling away at the edges where necessary:



I spend a lot of the day down in the trenches "bottoming out"......cleaning up the corners, and the bottoms of the trench. A digger bucket leaves teeth marks, and they should be removed, but it also can't cut vertical end, so all ends-of-trenches need digging out by hand. The clay is so rock hard that a little trenching spade was the favourite weapon, and that only managed to nibble off a tiny bit every time. This is the result of a lot of sweat:



The hard work wasn't all mine: my old neighbour volunteered. Mabel over-saw activities, but frankly, was rather useless.



Three diggers and a workshop:



Finishing off:



Tomorrow the Building Inspector comes first thing, then the muck-away lorry, then the concrete (12 cubic metres = 2 lorry-loads). The only work I need to do in preparation is to mark levels around the trenches, which won't take long. I've a few friends lined up to help push the concrete around tomorrow.

Oh, and yes, I remembered the duct for the water supply.......but forgot to take any photos of it.

 

[RogerS]

Why do digger teeth marks need removing?