• Hi all and welcome to TheWoodHaven2 brought into the 21st Century, kicking and screaming! We all have Alasdair to thank for the vast bulk of the heavy lifting to get us here, no more so than me because he's taken away a huge burden of responsibility from my shoulders and brought us to this new shiny home, with all your previous content (hopefully) still intact! Please peruse and feed back. There is still plenty to do, like changing the colour scheme, adding the banner graphic, tweaking the odd setting here and there so I have added a new thread in the 'Technical Issues, Bugs and Feature Requests' forum for you to add any issues you find, any missing settings or just anything you'd like to see added/removed from the feature set that Xenforo offers. We will get to everything over the coming weeks so please be patient, but add anything at all to the thread I mention above and we promise to get to them over the next few days/weeks/months. In the meantime, please enjoy!

Mike's ext'n & renovation (solar panels)

Make sure you order enough, because delivery is always expensive when I've tried to buy this stuff in the past, and having to order one additional roll later when you run short can cost a lot of money. There's a good reason why I know this.......
 
I though the brand Adrian linked to was the original? Anyway its the brand I have used and can confirm its a good example of the product. The fridge tip is a must as far as I'm concerned.

The glazing on the green oak framed bit of my house is much simpler than what Mike is doing. The frame is all square, no rebates at all therefore no complicated joints into sloped cills or anything like that. The glazing then sits on the outside of the frame and then air dried capping piece on the outside of that. DPC tucked in the back of the glazing at the bottom like a cavity tray, the oak capping is undercut at the bottom to provide a drip bead. All sat on a course of plinth stretchers so it doesn't stick out. It looks like the glazing is in a slot in the frame, no timber beads at all. Sounds more complicated than it is and way simpler than Mikes. But I get Mike does it for the pleasure.

Mark
 
Mike G":3ifa1hrt said:
A tip when using the tape is to put it in the fridge before you need it. It expands relatively quickly otherwise, and that can be a bit of a nuisance.

A top tip, thanks Mike. I've used it on several applications on the orangery, and I agree the expansion can be a royal pain in the proverbial during installation.

PS, eyesight continues to improve so progress on the orangery is on an upward trajectory, I may even get round to updating my thread on here...................
 
the bear":1o0e03cp said:
I though the brand Adrian linked to was the original?.....

It may be. I wonder perhaps if the parent company has changed names, or the brand has been sold.
 
Norty Raskel":27ctq86n said:
.......PS, eyesight continues to improve so progress on the orangery is on an upward trajectory, I may even get round to updating my thread on here...................

That's good to hear, Jon.
 
I've not bothered boring anyone with repetitive photos of frames, mortices, tenons, rebates, etc. But here is something a little different. I have put together one of the end frames and today's job was marking out and making the oak rafter that forms the top part of it.

Firstly, I went to the Builders Merchant and bought the cheapest sheet material they stocked, which turned out to be 3mm hardboard (although it seems more like MDF than hardboard). I ripped this into 150mm wide strips and glued 2 togethr to create a pattern piece for the rafter:

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There's a bit to think about when marking out the joints for this piece, because of the rebate, and where the pattern was taken in relation to it. Hence, so head scratching and some mistakes:

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Having finally convinced myself that I'd got it right, I started cutting the top shoulder. As it is 400 ish mm long, I chose to clamp a bit of scrapin place and saw against it:

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There's an obvious limit as to how deep one can go with a tenon saw, so it was soon time to revert to the chisels:

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The finished joint has staggered shoulders to account for the rebate in the plate it fits into, and those shoulders are parallel because I want a "stop" (not sure what it's called) to resist horizontal forces:

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At the other end is a simple bridle:

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And in the middle are a couple of mortices, complicated by being on an angle:

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My biggest handicap in woodworking terms is the inability to comfortably do big rebates. The rebate I am using for this framing is 20mm x 100mm, but the maximum depth of cut of my circular saw is 65mm. Hence this palaver:

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So, that's a day's work. Two mortices, a tenon, a bridle mortice, and a rebate. Eight hours, maybe. You can see why I'm not updating this thread very often.
 
Thanks Malc, but this is the easy bit. It's making the two parts of the joints fit properly which is where the skill lies. This one is a bit more complex because of the lack of reference faces/ edges, and the lack of right angles.
 
Mike G":2uejsl57 said:
Thanks Malc, but this is the easy bit. It's making the two parts of the joints fit properly which is where the skill lies. This one is a bit more complex because of the lack of reference faces/ edges, and the lack of right angles.

Not too far removed from me trying to mitre two curved parts of my current instrument; no reference face or edge.
 
I hate doing difficult angles in joints. Very easy to get the measurements wrong. Nice work.

I think I would have used a router for that big rebate, with a template. Circular saw vs router? Probably would have taken the sides out with a circular saw and then routed the waste. Maybe it would not have saved much time.

8 hours to get that lot done seems perfectly reasonable to me. I would have spent a good chunk of that just marking out and checking the angles.
 
It's been a while. I've been plodding on, with an hour here and an hour there, and solid work at the weekends. I left you last time when I was templating for the main rafter, so here is a photo of that gable in process and complete:

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This was a big shoulder to cut:

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The difference in thickness between the rafter and the plate has since been reduced:

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That photo was taken lying on my back underneath the frame, looking up.

The "stop" on the end of the rafter is really important because it stops any tendency of the rafter to slide downhill under the weight of gravity. The same sort of feature occurs with the joint between the plate and the vertical post against the house. This time it is to accurately support the end of the plate, relieving the tenon of doing the job on its own:

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On to the next job. This is to make the plate above the front screen, and then fit the posts into that. I won't bore you with photos of a standard plate and some mortices, so here is the process of fitting the posts. Firstly, I made the end two posts to the measured lengths, stood them in the sole plate, and placed the wall plate on top:

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You have to remember these pieces of wood aren't straight. Therefore, I couldn't just cut all the posts to the same length. I put the outside two into place, and then used a batten to mark the distance to the shoulder for the intermediate two:

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That wins the prize for the most boring photo ever posted on the internet. :lol: It does make a point, though: every piece has to be individually made, and not just cut to a pre-determined standard length. Then it was time to do trial fit:

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Whilst everything was together I marked for all the peg holes in the tenons. Draw-bore pegging, as we know, involves off-setting the hole in the tenon from the hole into the mortice. Normally, to get the peg to go through the resulting smaller hole (with a lip), you put quite a point on the end of the peg so that it feeds itself through. However, these pegs are "blind". They don't penetrate through to the outside. This means that there isn't any spare room for a long point. To help ease the passage of the pegs, I therefore have to chamfer the corner of the holes in the tenons. A quick flick of the chisel does the trick:

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The final job for now was to make the corner braces. I worked out what I needed, and then cut a pattern, before cutting the braces out on the bandsaw. They're only 35mm thick:

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Then I cut the shoulders and the tenon cheeks, and cleaned up the curves with a spokeshave and scraper:

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Using the template, I then marked out for the mortice locations. This is more complicated than it might appear, because I had decided to let the shoulders of the brace into the plate and posts:

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This is so that when the everything shrinks there won't be a gap between the shoulder on the braces and the post or plate. Seeing light through a joint is never good, but here it will be backlit by a window, so even worse than normal.

I then chopped out the mortice in the normal way:

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That end of the brace has a reduced tenon to miss a brace coming in at right angles, but it will be months before you get to see that. Fitting the joint together enabled me to mark out for the housing:

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The only sensible way to produce an accurate new "shoulder" at a precise depth was to use a router. This surface, after all, is the one that will be doing the work if the wind tries to "rack" the completed building. There's not much meat to the side to be playing with. Anyway, it worked out neatly:

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The saw cut this side of the brace is for a rebate for the windows. The brace is mounted on the raised bit just inside the glass, hence the thin timber and nearness to the edge.

Finally, I put it all together (well, excepting the middle posts). Obviously this is upside down from where it will be in the building:

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It does look very satisfying work, and at a very fine pace.
But I think someone must have hacked Mike's account - there was a thread posted recently where "Mike G" was planning on taking it easy and reading a stack of books... :)
 
Yeah, it's fun Andy, but it's slow as hell. I am probably going to erect what I have built so far, because I won't be able to do very much for a while after my operation.
 
You've done a lovely neat job of those braces. I've made a note of your marking out method. Usually I get them right but you've seen the one in a big oak post at the back of one of my outbuildings where I cut the mortice about 4" too high. Embarrassing.

Assembly is usually a challenge for me too, especially if there are four braces in a post.

Your joint precision is superb. It's annoying though when shrinkage creates gaps after a while.
 
Thanks Adrian. And yes, you're right about shrinkage ruining precision.
 
With a very short time to go until I am out of action for 3 months, I spent this weekend putting up as much of the frame as I sensibly could. Here's the process.

Obviously you start with the sole plates. The first job was to do the lead detail which keep the junction between the wood and the bricks dry. I cut a piece of 6" code 3 lead in half lengthways, and folded over the edge which will feed into the groove on the underside of the plate:

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I carried the smaller plate over to the sunroom, but the larger one required a wheelbarrow:

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The next job was to screw the tie-down straps into position on the underside of the plate. With oak and steel hating each other, I put a little plastic barrier between them so that they don't do each other damage:

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I screwed the straps on with some brass screws, using my Yankee, and Fairy liquid as the lubricant. It worked beautifully:

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Here you can see the DPC stapled to the underside of the oak, and also a butterfly tie which holds the mitred bridle joint together. This had been cut oversized and left in the airing cupboard for 2 months so that it wouldn't shrink in situ and loosen:

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I raised the plates off the plinth so that I could get that joint together (the butterfly is underneath), and so that I could get the mortar into place:

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With the plate lowered onto the mortar and tapped level I screwed and plugged the straps to the plinth, and roughly dressed the lead:

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Believe it or not, that was a full days work.

Today, I started with the posts. I had previously taken these to a friend with a wonderful table saw, and cut out the big rebates:

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This corner isn't peggable, so I used some biggish brass screws to hold it before the post went in, because there was a chance of all the bashing etc disturbing things. I bed the ends of the outside part of the joint in Hippo 3 (a CT1 equivalent), to keep water out of the joint:

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The first post went in nicely, permanently tying that corner together:

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The others went up in short order:

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The short upper plate parallel with the house I lifted into position alone. That was relatively easy with a clamped on bearer at one end. I then called a friend for some help, and we popped up the vertical against the wall, and the longer upper plate:

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It was dark before I finished encasing it in plastic sheeting, so there is no photo of that. It will stay untouched until about March, although I might do the pegs before then. I had one spare peg from a previous job and that was used for..............well..........let's see if you can guess. I believe it is the most important joint structurally. With that one safely pegged I don't think the frame can come apart.

Those paying attention will remember that I have made the rafter and a couple of short posts to complete the gable over the end frame. I chose not to erect them, though, because it would be really difficult to wrap that odd shape in polythene. Water leaves horrible stains on green oak, and I don't want to be splashing bucketfuls of oxalic acid around cleaning it up.

PS Adrian, loading the images to Imgur took me about 2 or 3 minutes. Camera to folder to PixResizer to Imgur. I just paste the URL from Imgur into my post and keep typing.
 
OK Mike. I am trying to get used to Imgur 8-)

Nice work there. The framing members are much chunkier than I expect from you. It looks great.

If doing no more through the worst of winter, I would probably have delayed the lot. I can se I am going to have to come and help you get the rafters on :lol:
 
AJB Temple":19jp6k20 said:
.....If doing no more through the worst of winter, I would probably have delayed the lot. I can se I am going to have to come and help you get the rafters on :lol:

Getting this part of the frame up killed two birds with one stone. Firstly, and most importantly, I was running out of space in the garage. I couldn't get to anything without moving stuff I'd already made. Secondly, it will allow me to resume work sooner because that's all the heavy bits of timber out of the way. I'm not allowed to lift any weights for 3 months, so if I get the right stuff laid out now ready for resumption I can probably get on with things a bit sooner. Plus, we want to get one of the cars away in the winter.

And yes, the rafters are the big deal. They're the heaviest pieces of wood, and they are lifted the furthest. That's going to need some real thought and preparation. Plus, of course, two of them can't be trial fitted. The final fitting will the be first fitting. Thanks for the offer....we'll make a plan.
 
Phil":upumt6hg said:
.....Not quite sure about the lengthy delay, where is your apprentice? :D

I'm having a hip operation on Wednesday. I'll be unable to touch this sort of work for 3 months. I've actually only got a couple of pieces to do on the other gable before that whole side is ready to go up. If my operation had been a week later I could have had the framing finished.
 
That really is most impressive Mike, obviously a lot of thought went into the design and execution, love the chamfered / shaped ends. Hope you can be successful in keeping the water out.
And best of luck with the op, how you will be able to sit still with your work ethic I can’t imagine. Ian
 
That’s great. Good luck with the op. A minority interest perhaps, but can I ask how you attached the plastic sheeting so that it’ll stand up to the winter winds and rain?
 
Windows":15o8k6mi said:
......A minority interest perhaps, but can I ask how you attached the plastic sheeting so that it’ll stand up to the winter winds and rain?

I'll post a photo later, but essentially I got a heavy enough duty plastic in the first place (it's 500 gauge = 125 microns), and I just stretched it as flat as I could and battened down all the edges. I was able to slip it in behind the post on the wall, so could wrap that separately from the rest.
 
Cabinetman":1851xqnw said:
..... best of luck with the op, how you will be able to sit still with your work ethic I can’t imagine. Ian

Thanks Ian. They actually don't want you sitting still. I'll have a regular set of exercises to do, and will be walking more and more, plus time on an exercise bike after a week or two. However, bending and twisting are banned for a couple of months, and lifting weight is banned for 3 months. The big danger following hip surgery is dislocation, which means it is critical not to fall. It will probably be a month or two until I can tackle the slightly tricky path out my workshop on crutches, but once I can, there will be some tasks I can do out there even if I can't restart work on the sunroom until spring.
 
My office has been a very temporary arrangement for the last year or 2, and it's time to sort it out. I have had an enforced clear-out to let the Gigaclear chap install his fibre-optic kit, so this is the current state of play:

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It's a dump, but not as bad as normal. I don't want to bring the stuff back in that I've moved until I've got a bit more organised, so I am going to start work on a long-planned bit of built-in furniture:

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The computer will be hidden behind the fake-drawer-front on the right hand side of the knee-hole, and a big A3 printer will sit above the left hand filing drawers, hence the missing lower shelf of the book case. This will all be in oak, and very much resemble/ match the lounge furniture I made a year or two ago:

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A couple of years ago I bought a couple of boards of oak-faced MDF, 18mm thick, veneered both sides, for this job. The first task is to obviously to cut it to size and do some lipping. I cut it up with a fine toothed handsaw. The lipping went through the bandsaw, the planer thicknesser, and then the router table:

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There are two sizes (25 x 25, and 30 x 25) because the long span of the desk above the knee-hole will need supporting a bit, but also should benefit from looking a little beefier.

I cut the mitred corners with a tenon saw, and planed them on the shooting board:

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Then I glued everything up:

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I'm doing a sewing table in one of the upstairs bedrooms at the same time, so there will be another glue-up in a day or two when I'll have enough clamps again. I'm not planning to finish this unit all in one go, because I really want to be getting on with the oak framing of the sunroom. The plan is to just get the basic carcase in place with a finish on it, before I move stuff back into the room, and I'll do the face frames and drawers etc in due course.
 
Thanks Andy. I've been off crutches for a couple of months now, but I'm still restricted in what I can lift. I see the surgeon tomorrow, as it happens, and I hope he'll give me the go-ahead to do whatever I like......including riding my bike.

I've been messing about with the workshop, rather than doing anything productive, just because I've been a bit restricted. I'm not a big fan of working-on-the-workshop, but I've made a difference, and now I can start putting it into use.
 
Looking forward to following this Mike, as I’ve used a bit of that 18mm Ash mdf in the past.
Nice design with the differing levels on the front. Came across these at a really good brass Co here Baldwin Brass, with a melon design, I know from experience that their laquer finish lasts for years under hard wear if interested.
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Cabinetman":1eohcotv said:
......Nice design with the differing levels on the front.

That was pretty much forced on me by the room being 3.5m wide, and the boards being 2.5m long. Besides, working with a computer I want the mouse to be low, at about 625 above the floor, which is too low for 2 filing cabinet drawers to fit under.


Came across these at a really good brass Co here Baldwin Brass, with a melon design, I know from experience that their laquer finish lasts for years under hard wear if interested.

Those look nice. I bought mine a couple of years ago. Made in China with a fake patina.....but they look OK.
 
I de-clamped everything from yesterday, and did the job I've worried about most: planing the lipping down flush:

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It was actually easier than I had thought. The trick is to keep the mouth of the plane free of shavings so you can see precisely what you're taking off and from where. Anyway, flushed with a smoother and then scraped to a final finish....

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Then I dug out a scratch stock I'd made a year or two ago:

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.......and worked a bead onto both edges of the lipping:

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The other job I did today was to dismantle some tables I acquired FOC on Facebook Marketplace. These are all solid pieces of timber:

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.........and I've got 2 more which I am going to set up as a bench to do some leaded lights. Most of the timber will go into my new bench, whenever I get time to build that.
 
Nice acquisition, what wood are they? Good to re- purpose it.
That scratch stock worked well Mike, in the past I would have used the spindle moulder but probably spent more time setting it up than you took lol.
I remember saying before how relatively easy it is to plane down to the veneer on another thread a while ago, it almost feels like the veneer is harder than the trim and doesn’t want to be cut
 
It's some form of softwood, Ian, but I'm not sure what precisely. It's thick and heavy, which is what counts for a bench.
 
That scratch stock is excellent. I like beading but never do it. Shall have to re-evaluate.
 
I also like that scratched detail on the oak lipping - it's exactly the same as I did on a big bookcase some time ago :)
 
9fingers":tw6dvvv9 said:
Equally easy to use a router bit......

Possible true, and I have beading bits. However I'd be impressed if you could come up with a way of doing this with a router:

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