Mower - help again please. Smoke!!

[AJB Temple]

Still having problems with the rider on mower.

It would not start, even with a booster connected. It would turn over once - make a sound almost as if it was going to backfire, but not start. Did this on each turn of the key.

Eventually a load of grey smelly smoke came out of the left side.

It is a Briggs & Stratton Intek 4 Stroke 185, 500cc fitted to a Stiga mower. Key operated electric start.

This is a picture of the engine from google. There is a black cylinder (not the oil filter) on the left side, and the smoke came out of the bottom of this. I imagine it is totally screwed. Does anyone know what this part is? Can take it off tomorrow unless it is time to call out the service people, which I would prefer not to do.

 

[Mike G]

Put it in gear, Adrian, take the spark plug out, and with the mower on a firm surface push it forward. Report back.

 

[AJB Temple]

OK, will do that tomorrow Mike.

But clouds of thin smoke from the bottom of that cylindrical bit suggest that part, whatever it is, needs replacing.

 

[AJB Temple]

Just to be clear - this is not exhaust smoke, it is thin grey whispy smoke as if an internal component was on fire.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I presume it is the starter motor ? So either the starter motor is duff, or the engine is seized up?

 

[Mike G]

.........or the engine is seized up?

Hence my little test. Hopefully, it's just a replacement starter required, but there's no point spending money on that if the engine is seized.

 

[AJB Temple]

Don't depress me!

The bit that was smoking is the starter motor I have discovered from on-line looking.

 

[Lons]

If you're lucky it was just a starter motor developed a wiring fault but you won't know until you carry out the test Mike suggested in case the engine caused the starter motor to burn out, hopefully not, fingers crossed.

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks. It\s freezing here.

I'm not sure what I can tell from this as I can push the mower backwards and forwards quite easily anyway (without the plug out) and have no idea if the engine is turning over.

Will wait for it to get above 4 degrees!

 

[Mike G]

It needs to be in gear, Adrian, so that pushing the mower is turning the engine over. If that's the case, and the engine is turning over freely with the spark plug out, then the engine isn't siezed. If it is turning over freely with the plug in, either you have a catastrophic decompression issue (failed valve, hole in the side of the cylinder, hole in the piston), or you've just not got it in gear. If it has a centrifugal clutch I'm not 100% sure how you'll do this test. Maybe you'll need to take the plug out and then rotate the blade by hand. You should be able to hear the piston going up and down by the blowing out and then sucking in of air from the spark plug socket.

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks Mike

I've been thinking about this. Years ago I used to be confident with small engines (outboards and motors in boats) and motorbikes, but somehow I've lost my confidence. It's bizarre as I used to strip down engines and gearboxes with my son and gradually over the last decade he has just done it all on his own when he comes over.

Anyway. The problem here is there are no gears. Engine engagement is hydrostatic. Various safety mechanisms come into play, including the necessity to have the engine cover down before the seat can go down (unless I strip it off). Mower is auto braked without the seat down. It's four wheel drive.

The mower is not old and has not been abused. So I have found a local highly recommended mower man and he is coming on Saturday at 8am, with a second hand starter mower, relay, new battery and so on ((I've had a refund on the one recently bought). If he's a good bloke he can also service my Billy Goat, smaller mower and the other stuff.

Adrian

 

[RogerS]

.....The problem here is there are no gears. Engine engagement is hydrostatic. Various safety mechanisms come into play, including the necessity to have the engine cover down before the seat can go down (unless I strip it off). Mower is auto braked without the seat down. It's four wheel drive.

....

When/why have manufacturers forgotten KISS ?

 

[NickM]

You should still be able to check the engine hasn’t seized by taking the plug(s) out and turning the pulley which drives the hydraulic pump.

 

[AJB Temple]

Tried that Nick. The pulley is very hard to get to. I have however turned it about half a turn with a long blade screwdriver before running out of room.

Agree re KISS. The systems are intended to improve safety, but they actually achieve the opposite as they pretty much force you to disable them else it becomes annoying to use. Hence earlier thread on seat switch that cuts the engine.

 

[NickM]

Fingers crossed it’s nothing too serious and that your mower man can fix it.

 

[AndyP]

.....The problem here is there are no gears. Engine engagement is hydrostatic. Various safety mechanisms come into play, including the necessity to have the engine cover down before the seat can go down (unless I strip it off). Mower is auto braked without the seat down. It's four wheel drive.

....

When/why have manufacturers forgotten KISS ?

When they realised they could make money servicing machines than selling them.

 

[clogs]

I believe B+Stratton are now Chinese.....and better engines than the last years of the parent company....
the last years of B+S was destroyed by the accountants taking over.... everything was the cheapest they could buy.....
and this c@rp fuel (euro 10) u have to buy now wont help at all...just wait n see......
early engines are really good...many are still in use.......
s/motors were just plain junk.....
High amperage insulated parts, the insu just melted away.....
I was offered a part share in a container of brand new ride on mowers from the States.....
they were being sold as nobody would buy them with a B+S engine.....they were so bad and warranty claims were useless.......
I'm told that to sell mowers there they need a Honda, Kawasaki etc.....even Kholer are v/good....

Out of interest I've been fixing mowers of all kinds for years.....
most of the starting probs were the saftey cut out systems....I just rewired mowers without them (with owners permission of course)....
I could do nothing with the starter motors but all the rest of the switch gear was changed..
the key switch depending on model got a new v/old stock unit or an ign switch from a Massey Fergy tractor...
the starter solenoid I used came from a Suzuki GXR1100 motorcycle....
never fitted those expensive standard batteries.....made a new batt carrier and fitted something from a Ford Fiesta or Polo sized car.....that way they lasted more than 2 years....
ALSO,
If u go to buy a new mower with a Honda engine MAKE SURE it says MADE IN JAPAN.....
the euro made engines are not so good....

 

[AJB Temple]

Thanks.

My generator is a Honda engine and appears to be indestructible. To be fair this mower with B&S engine is 5 or 6 years old (had it from new) and has been dead reliable up until now. I like the hydrostatic aspect because it is very controllable forward to reverse, and I like the electric deck lift. It has mowed about 1.5acres a week for that time, and occasionally tops and orchard of about 5 acres.

The auto shut off of the engine when I get off the seat has been disabled (after a servicing dealer that I won't use again) re-instated it. The only thing that has failed up to now is a mower deck bearing, and it has consumed a coupe of belts to the mower deck (one of which was caused by dealer supplying wrong belt).

I shall see on Saturday what the problem is - hopefully just the starter motor.

A