Narex or Sorby

[Cabinetman]

So now is the time to invest in better chisels here in the US, I have been reading the reviews of Narex Richter on here, but have always used boxwood handles of the Sorby style below, my old chisels have been wonderful the question is are Sorby still as well made as they were? Ian

 

[AJB Temple]

I think Dan had a set and was impressed. Maybe PM him.

 

[droogs]

I've been using a set of Narex ,115s for about a decade now. Bought them from Peter Sefton at the last Scottish woodworking show he was at. Love using them, got the ones with the hornbeam handles. Over time have replaced all my chisels to Narex bar my 3 pig stickers which are from circa 1880s

 

[Woodbloke]

For years I was using decent quality Japanese chisels from Workshop Heaven, which take an incredible edge but the hardened steel is very brittle, so they needed to be used with some due care. Jap chisels are also very uncomfortable to use for any extended period.

Having read loads of reviews on the Narex 'Richter' chisels I took the plunge and ordered a set from WH and I wasn't disappointed. They take just as good an edge as my old Japanese chisels and moreover, the backs were all flat or slightly concave, which is more than can be said for the oriental ones. 'Richter' handles are also very, very comfortable and it's a little known fact that you can obtain them as a left and right hand skew version...but you'll need to grind the bevels yourself :lol: - Rob

 

[Cabinetman]

Well that’s a plus for Narex thank you, anybody bought a Sorby recently? Ian

 

[Woodster]

What’s the story with the Aldi/Lidl ones, are they still reckoned to be pretty good for the money or best avoided?

 

[Doug]

If I were in the states I’d be looking at the Veritas PMV11 chisels, I imagine they’d be a lot cheaper over there than here & id still buy them again even at uk prices.

 

[Cabinetman]

Thanks Doug, very nice but sorry a bit more than I wanted to spend at $500,( £412 ) for 5. Ian

 

[Woodbloke]

If I were in the states I’d be looking at the Veritas PMV11 chisels, I imagine they’d be a lot cheaper over there than here & id still buy them again even at uk prices.

Peter Parfitt of 'New Brit Workshop' once tried to offload a set of those on me at full retail price as he hated the things; I was distinctly unimpressed! :evil: - Rob

Edit - meant to add that the side bevels on the 'Richter' chisels are very finely ground as well.

 

[Trevanion]

If it’s any help Ian, the Narex are by far the nicest and best new* chisels I have ever used, I do have a Sorby somewhere and it would be like comparing Lexus to Rolls Royce, the Narex is just that much nicer.

*Some of the historic chisels were very nice, I have a soft spot for old Anton Berg chisels.

Peter Parfitt of 'New Brit Workshop' once tried to offload a set of those on me at full retail price as he hated the things; I was distinctly unimpressed! :evil: - Rob

Yer, but they were super rare “Parf” chisels, graced by the hands of unquestionable skill and knowledge :lol:

 

[Mike Jordan]

Sheffield steel every time!

 

[Phil Pascoe]

What’s the story with the Aldi/Lidl ones, are they still reckoned to be pretty good for the money or best avoided?

They haven't sold them for five or six years.

 

[spb]

Well that’s a plus for Narex thank you, anybody bought a Sorby recently? Ian

I have a couple of new (bought new last summer) Sorby registered firmer chisels, in 25mm and 38mm. They're lovely to use, hold an edge well, and all of that, but obviously in that style and those sizes I'm not using them for delicate paring work. On that basis I'm sure the steel on their bench chisels will be just fine, but can't speak first hand for the handling.

My bench chisels are a mix of mostly Ashley Iles and some Narex Richter. You won't go wrong with them.

 

[Cabinetman]

Well that’s a plus for Narex thank you, anybody bought a Sorby recently? Ian

I have a couple of new (bought new last summer) Sorby registered firmer chisels, in 25mm and 38mm. They're lovely to use, hold an edge well, and all of that, but obviously in that style and those sizes I'm not using them for delicate paring work. On that basis I'm sure the steel on their bench chisels will be just fine, but can't speak first hand for the handling.

My bench chisels are a mix of mostly Ashley Iles and some Narex Richter. You won't go wrong with them.

Thanks for that, that’s a monster of a chisel! Instant decision, have just ordered a set of 5 Sorby boxwood bevel edge chisels, will report back in a few days. Thanks all, decided to support a uk manufacturer. Ian
These are the ones, with a traditional ferrule £175

 

[Doug]

If I were in the states I’d be looking at the Veritas PMV11 chisels, I imagine they’d be a lot cheaper over there than here & id still buy them again even at uk prices.

Peter Parfitt of 'New Brit Workshop' once tried to offload a set of those on me at full retail price as he hated the things; I was distinctly unimpressed! :evil: - Rob

Edit - meant to add that the side bevels on the 'Richter' chisels are very finely ground as well.

& I remember yourself singing the praises of PMV11 at one of Peter Seftons open days :shock:

 

[AndyP]

Out of curiosity Ian were Ashley Isles never in the reckoning? Another fine British tool maker.

 

[AJB Temple]

I've had a play with a lot of chisels. And I must have about 100. Lots inherited.

Lots of cobblers talked about them. Quick thoughts:

First I had Footprint with red plastic handles. I was 8. Still have the set of 4 and they are superb.
Bought various LN socket chisels. Superb for fine work. Expensive though.
Have large set of Japanese chisels in a hand made box. They look lovely. Razor sharp with ease. But I use LN see above.
Workshop Heaven sent me some early Narex to try. Hated the chunky handles and the finish was rough. I think they upped their game since.
Various pig stickers from eBay. Indestructible. Good for deep mortices in oak.
Couple of Sorby mortisers. Fine, nothing special.
Several WWII era Ward. Really good and excellent steel. I use these a lot and they cost about £2 each.
Some specialist Sorby green oak framing stuff in 3" and 4". Occasionally useful for framing joints.

Frankly a chisel is a very simple tool. You can see a difference between V11 or other top notch steel, but a chisel is a chisel is a chisel and if you have a cheap one you might need to sharpen it more. Handle comfort is a big deal for me. If I had to rescue a set from a fire it would be the old Footprints my dad bought me. They are as good as anything else.

Conclusion - operator is more important than the tool.

 

[Phil Pascoe]

Yes. I think my most expensive chisels are a few Wards I paid £4 each for. :lol:

 

[Cabinetman]

Out of curiosity Ian were Ashley Isles never in the reckoning? Another fine British tool maker.

I only found one supplier over here and he was out of stock but yes would have been up for consideration.
Must say though that I really wanted Boxwood handles, my uk set haven’t so much as been dinted in 40 years knocking.

 

[Woodster]

First I had Footprint with red plastic handles. I was 8. Still have the set of 4 and they are superb.

I’ve got one or two Footprint Chisels with the red plastic handles. No idea what type of steel they’re made from but they take and hold an edge really well. If I saw any old ones going cheap I wouldn’t hesitate to buy them.

 

[spb]

Frankly a chisel is a very simple tool. You can see a difference between V11 or other top notch steel, but a chisel is a chisel is a chisel and if you have a cheap one you might need to sharpen it more.

Up to a point, but the shape matters too. I started out with some black and yellow handled Stanley ones from the builders' merchant, which were labeled as bevel edge but had anything up to 3mm of square edge before the bevel started. Fine for mortising, but horrible for working into corners.

 

[Woodbloke]

& I remember yourself singing the praises of PMV11 at one of Peter Seftons open days :shock:

Yep, and I still use the PMV11 blades in my low angle planes; excellent they are too. I've never tried the chisels but resented the fact that PP tried to offload a set of second hand Veritas PMV11 chisels at full retail! When I spoke to him he'd changed his mind about them being 'superb' as some of the handles had split.

... the old Footprints my dad bought me. They are as good as anything else.

Conclusion - operator is more important than the tool.

The steel quality on the old Footprints was very good indeed, but you're completely wrong about your 'conclusion'. Some years ago, Mike Huntley (the then editor of F&C) asked me to do a road test on around 15 different types of chisel then available, some of which were cCc (cheap Chinese cr@p) of the very worst sort. The handles were sweaty plastic (even the Footprints suffered in that regard) and the steel quality was appalling; the edges mushroomed after a few taps into oak. The chisels with the best quality steel, which were pretty much indistructible were these things from Lee Valley - Rob

 

[Lurker]

It’s interesting how Narex have become a premier maker.
I have a narex chisel embossed “made in Czechoslovakia” that I imagine I bought new for pennies. I guess they were desperate for western currency back then. The plastic handle is horrible but the steel is really first class.

 

[AJB Temple]

To be fair to me Rob :lol: I have never had a ccc chisel. The Footprints are British I think and made in the 1960s. The LN ones are US. Practically everything else I have bought as WWII Wards etc, or from members on UKW (where most of the Japanese set came from I think) or here. Plus a couple of trial gifts from tool suppliers. I do think it is fair to say that someone who knows how to sharpen can get good work out of most chisels, but I do accept that if the steel is very soft or chippy then that may not apply.

The LN steel is really good and I get a very keen edge. But socket chisels can be a bit of a pain with the blade disengaging from the handle. As it happens I have a 3/8" mortice chisel from both Sorby (red handle) and Narex (octagonal wood handle of some sort - but not a premium wood) and of those two the Sorby sharpens better and holds it's edge better. I almost never use the Narex, as I dislike the feel of the far too chunky handle.

 

[Dr.Al]

I haven't got much to add to this as I have limited experience, but I will contrast slightly with what Adrian has said: I love the chunky handles on the Narex 8116 chisels. I guess perhaps I have larger than average hands: I find most motorcycle handlebar grips uncomfortably small.

 

[Woodbloke]

To be fair to me Rob :lol: I have never had a ccc chisel. The Footprints are British I think and made in the 1960s. The LN ones are US. Practically everything else I have bought as WWII Wards etc, or from members on UKW (where most of the Japanese set came from I think) or here. Plus a couple of trial gifts from tool suppliers. I do think it is fair to say that someone who knows how to sharpen can get good work out of most chisels, but I do accept that if the steel is very soft or chippy then that may not apply.

The LN steel is really good and I get a very keen edge. But socket chisels can be a bit of a pain with the blade disengaging from the handle. As it happens I have a 3/8" mortice chisel from both Sorby (red handle) and Narex (octagonal wood handle of some sort - but not a premium wood) and of those two the Sorby sharpens better and holds it's edge better. I almost never use the Narex, as I dislike the feel of the far too chunky handle.

The one's that Mike sent to me were a general selection of those available at the budget end (so Chinese made and for disposable, knockabout trade use) as well as much better made German, Swedish and New World offerings. The original Footprints (red plastic handle I recollect?) were Sheffield made and on a par with the early black handled Stanley ones and the blue handled Marples, one of which I have in my DIY toolbox as a 'house' chisel.
If you ever have the misfortune to come across a real gem of a cCc chisel, there's very little you can do with it apart from spreading butter on your toast! - Rob

 

[AndyT]

Not much help in answering the original question but if we're onto Footprints I rather like these. Some of the yellow paint has come off the beech wood handles but the sizing and balance are good.



As it happens, I also have the box they were posted to the original owner in. It's postmarked October 1974. I think they were a promotional offer from the Woodworker.

You can see that they were drop forged then finished on a rotary grinder, which would have been more economical than older hand methods, but the Sheffield steel was being made in a predictable, reliable way then.

 

[johnward]

I manage with 2 sets of Sheffield Marples plus a few odds and ends. I don't think I'll be upgrading them.

John

 

[AJB Temple]

Nice old Footprints Andy. Mine are the bevelled variety with red handles. They have withstood a lot of abuse.

I was given my toolkit by my dad aged 8. (Me, not him :lol: ). Some toerag quite recently stole my very nice level with my name on in with an engraved brass plate. But I still have the tenon saw, fold out wooden rule, Stanley No 4 plane, hand drill, chisels, hammer, steel rule, nail pulling pliers and a little portable vice. All of them are still used. Oh, and an oil stone and box.

I also have his old Sandvik handsaw and it's still fine.

It is interesting that in those days it was fine for a kid to have proper, sharp, adult tools. These days I suspect many parents would throw up their hands in horror. I can't recall ever having an accident, and I made a lot of stuff as a kid.

 

[AJB Temple]

Actually, looking at yours Andy, mine are much better finished than this. However, my father was an engineer and had access to precision kit at the time (he was in the design shop for the Coventry Climax engines for the Lotus Climax racing team) and for all I know he might have refined them. do know he valued good quality tools and looked after them.

I went through a phase where I thought modern stuff must be better, which is probably why I bought the Lie Nielson chisels (which are excellent). However, these days I think we made some really good quality stuff back in the day in the UK and I would be very happy with old top quality Sheffield steel. My uncle gave me a set of 8 old Stanley made chisels for cabinet making, branded Everlasting. Long blade and short handles. These are boxed and he never used them except for one, which was used by his brother for opening paint tins (they were painters and decorators mainly).

If I were in the market now, in the absence of Blue Spruce money :shock: , I would be sourcing second hand.

 

[Woodbloke]

I also have his old Sandvik handsaw and it's still fine.

Thee and me! When my granddad died in the early 90's I asked if I could have his old Sandvik saw (dating from the 60's with a red plastic handle) which I still have and hangs in the 'shop - Rob

 

[AndyT]

Just continuing the digression into red handled Footprints, I spotted these while window shopping early this morning



They're out there!

 

[Cabinetman]

My new Sorby chisels have arrived, haven’t had chance to play with them yet look good, but the smallest one the quarter has a small split in the handle from the ferrule about an inch long with the grain, not sure if I can be fussed to return it or all of them. What do you think, will it get worse?
I think it may have happened as it was left in the post box by the drive in 90° heat for a day whilst I was away.