Out of square square

[Lurker]

How do I fix this?

 

[novocaine]

grind the blade.

 

[Lurker]

grind the blade.

I thought that there was a thing about centre punching the rivets.

 

[AndyT]

The centre punching trick works on steel roofing squares but I've never heard of it working on brass rivets.

I checked and corrected all of my old squares a while ago and it wasn't too difficult. I used a large smooth file, carefully, with plenty of checking. Most of the time I was draw filing, to leave a smooth surface on the edges.

 

[novocaine]

what him above who is more learned said.

but I'll add that it has most likely been dropped at some point and the blade has moved. once that's happen it's going to be a bit weaker in terms of moving again.

 

[Lurker]

Thanks chaps.
I can guarantee that I would cock it up and the square isn’t something I care about, other than it’s been my go to for a good twenty years, so it doesn’t owe me anything. Replacements are not too spendy.
I might treat myself to a nice Finn garlick one in the new year.

 

[9fingers]

Thanks chaps.
I can guarantee that I would cock it up and the square isn’t something I care about, other than it’s been my go to for a good twenty years, so it doesn’t owe me anything. Replacements are not too spendy.
I might treat myself to a nice Finn garlick one in the new year.

Why not try a new skill. It's feckall good as it is, so you might just as well have a go.

Bob

 

[novocaine]

can't fuck it anymore than it already is. :lol:

 

[Doug]

More years ago than I care to remember I was gifted this lovely square by the elderly son of an old wheelwright who was the original owner.




At the time I placed it on the square edge of a bit of board drew a line & then flipped it over & commented it wasn’t exactly square the elderly chap gave the stock a firm rap on his bench & said try that, as the pencil line shows in the photo it’s still bang on square all these years later.

Just an aside the wooden stock is very worn but the writing on it starts C.F._ _ _ _ _ _ _ Then underneath what looks like Sheffield & under that Gramo_ _ _ _ _ does anyone recognise the make from that?

 

[Alf]

C F Johnson, "Gramophone" brand. Linky.

 

[AndyT]

Just an aside the wooden stock is very worn but the writing on it starts C.F._ _ _ _ _ _ _ Then underneath what looks like Sheffield & under that Gramo_ _ _ _ _ does anyone recognise the make from that?

There was a Sheffield company called D.F. Hogan and Son Ltd who used a Gramophone as their trademark. Tweedale's Directory gives dates as 1880 through until 1974. An old advert in the same book describes them as makers of Saws, sugar cane knives, joiner's square and bevel blades and scrapers.

 

[Doug]

C F Johnson, "Gramophone" brand. Linky.

There was a Sheffield company called D.F. Hogan and Son Ltd who used a Gramophone as their trademark. Tweedale's Directory gives dates as 1880 through until 1974. An old advert in the same book describes them as makers of Saws, sugar cane knives, joiner's square and bevel blades and scrapers.

Thanks for that both, the chap who gave it me is in his 70’s so I’m guessing his dad would be knocking 100+if he were still with us, I’ve a few of his tools all well worn from his days making wheels at the pit just a shame all his moulding planes where so riddled with worm.

 

[AndyT]

But which up to the minute Sheffield marketing team was it, with their new-fangled hand cranked audio entertainment system, giving that unforgettable impression of everything modern, forgotten now by so many except maybe those who look at the Daily Telegraph or the Radio Times and wonder what's going on - possibly the most widely known example of the same approach to naming your product.

 

[Peri]

A bit better than the two 'precision' clamping squares I bought from Rutlands a year or so back.

 

[Steve Maskery]

I have successfully adjusted try-squares in the past, a sharp tap in the right place, either at the back end of the blade or the bottom of the stock. I've never really understood why it works, but it does. Whether or not it stays true is, of course, another matter.
I guess it all depends on how attached to it you are. But nothing lasts for ever, sadly.
S

 

[TomTrees]

There must be a real good fix for a wooden square gone loose.
Yet to see anyone bother, I'll bet many have more than one in a box somewhere.

Edit...unless that is where the Crown adjustable square idea came from.

Tom

 

[Pete Maddex]

If the blade is loose you can tighten it by hammering the rivets.

It’s easy to file the blade back to square, but first check the brass strip is seated and flat.
I have sorted some by unscrewing the brass cleaning out the trapped crud and reattaching it.

Pete

 

[Lurker]

I have tapped the stock on the bench and it is true again, blade seems quite solid.
I will treat myself to a posh one in the new year.

 

[Pete Maddex]

I have a couple of 150mm engineers squares much better for marking out.

Pete

 

[johnward]

For marking out I use 150mm and 300mm Starratt adjustables which are very good. Like a lot of people I started out with the standard wooden stock squares but found that in time they mostly wandered off square, but with the helpful tips on rectification above, which I've come across before but ignored, I shall try my skills at repairing one.

John

 

[Woodbloke]

The very best wooden stocked squares were the one's made by Marples (iIrc) where the stock was riveted onto a dead true 'L' shaped lump of metal and so was virtually impossible to go out of square.
I expect Andy T could give us some more info? - Rob

 

[Raymedullary]

The 6 inch Marples here, spot on.

 

[AndyT]

The very best wooden stocked squares were the one's made by Marples (iIrc) where the stock was riveted onto a dead true 'L' shaped lump of metal and so was virtually impossible to go out of square.
I expect Andy T could give us some more info? - Rob

Sorry Rob, but that's a new one for me - any idea when they were made? Late 20th century? William Marples or Joseph?

 

[Raymedullary]

See the picture above? The 6inch Marples is that type. This one is from about 1980

 

[AndyT]

Well, thanks both, I've learned something this evening. The Marples Ever-true range. I should have spotted the third rivet in the middle of the stock - on an ordinary one, it wouldn't do anything.

https://archive.org/embed/marples-tools-cat-no-16-1971/Marples Tools Cat No 16 1971

So often, the more recent catalogues show you how many tools have disappeared since the previous issue, so it's nice to spot a new item getting introduced.

 

[Woodbloke]

The very best wooden stocked squares were the one's made by Marples (iIrc) where the stock was riveted onto a dead true 'L' shaped lump of metal and so was virtually impossible to go out of square.
I expect Andy T could give us some more info? - Rob

Sorry Rob, but that's a new one for me - any idea when they were made? Late 20th century? William Marples or Joseph?

The one in RayM's pic is the bad boy; I had a set of three round about that time and they were brilliant - Rob

 

[Lurker]

I have two old 12” ones that are spot on, will have a look for a name tomorrow.


It’s my birthday in January, I thought I might drop hints about one of these


https://www.flinn-garlick-saws.co.uk/ac ... ml#SID=452

 

[Woodster]

As said, knock it back to square then hammer the rivets. I had to do this recently with a modern Bahco square.
I definitely wouldn’t put a file anywhere near it, you’ll struggle to get it flat again.

 

[Sheffield Tony]

I bought an old 12" square, and filed it. It is probably not square and straight to engineering standards, but it is plenty good enough for regular woodwork. When I got it, it was already worn so that the edges of the blade were kind of dished a bit, so beyond knocking back to shape, and not much to lose.

Actually, it is amazing what can be done by proficient filing. Not that I am claiming to be proficient myself, you understand.

 

[Woodbloke]

Actually, it is amazing what can be done by proficient filing.

Just to go slightly off topic for a moment, but relevant to filing and metal bashing in general, I heard that once upon a time, Rolls Royce apprentices were given a chunk of mild steel, a set of new files and other kit, then simply told to ''make it into a cube''

No idea whether or not it's true, but it's one of those anecdotes associated with RR - Rob

 

[novocaine]

Actually, it is amazing what can be done by proficient filing.

Just to go slightly off topic for a moment, but relevant to filing and metal bashing in general, I heard that once upon a time, Rolls Royce apprentices were given a chunk of mild steel, a set of new files and other kit, then simply told to ''make it into a cube''

No idea whether or not it's true, but it's one of those anecdotes associated with RR - Rob

completely true, they were given dimensions and a tolerance and sent on their way.
those who were given turning qualifications were given a similar exercise.
british atomic energy gave comparable tests to it's group of engineers too.

 

[Raymedullary]

I thought it was a sphere!

 

[AndyT]

I remember seeing a filing test-piece in Penny Farthing Tools. It was two bits of steel, one looking a bit like a mitre template, ie a rectangle with a square bite out of it tilted at 45 degrees. The ends of the gap were at right angles. Another piece of steel had to fit into it, which it did, perfectly. If any of the surfaces had had one stroke of the file too many, the fit would have been loose, but it wasn't. This was the skill which kept the Navy afloat.

 

[Woodster]

During training we were given a 4” length of round bar and told to chisel it square and then file one side flat. Marking blue and blood produces an interesting combination.
I suppose carpenters squares don’t require it but some of my engineers squares have hardened steel blades so “adjusting” it with a file could prove problematic. Even some stainless steels aren’t very nice to file.

 

[Pete Maddex]

Carpenters squares are as hard to file as a saw blade.

Pete

 

[Woodster]

Looking through an old Dictum catalogue I noticed maybe half of them in there say they have Hardened steel blades. Obviously not designed to be “corrected” by filing? The Bahco I had to adjust was a bit tricky as the rivets were behind a glued in plastic cover. Once off though it was easy to punch the rivets to fix it.

 

[Pete Maddex]

It depends the type of tool steel and tempering, you can have a super hard chisel/engineering square or a carpenters square that you can file.

Pete