PC Probs... my favourite subject - cough couch.

[Pinch]

Our old desk top has been playing up in recent times and it's mainly internet related. Some sites, especially TWH2 takes an age to open, eg; just now, it took 8 attempts to open up a thread - so annoying.

We are now frequently getting reminders that Windows XP and Vista are not being supported by Google anymore. Our pc is Vista Business and I've had this old gal since new which must be 10+ years.

Also, if Mrs P or me are surfing and the phone rings, the internet freezes as soon as the phone is answered, and will remain so until the phone is back on the hook.

Any ideas or advice are much appreciated.

 

[AndyP]

Have your done the obvious Paul? ie clear the cache, history, cookies etc.

Are you connected to the router via wifi or cable? If wifi maybe you are getting interference from somewhere so changing the channel might help.
Sorry I do not now how to do those things on the version of Windoze you are running.

Tongue in cheek solution - get a Mac

 

[Pinch]

Haha yes, I was going to go Mac when I bought this back whenever it was.

Yep, all stuff cleared. Our router is connected via cable. We use the iPad quite a bit when downstairs (like now) which is wifi and this freezes up as well. I remember when we moved here the exchange was in plan for being moved into the village because a lot of people complained about a slow internet. I don't know if it has been moved - we've been here over 2 years now. Our internet was better to what it is now. :eusa-think:

 

[Rod]

It sounds like a broadband problem?
If you've got a smart phone you can download an App that will check the speeds of your broadband connection which might give a clue?

Rod

 

[RogerS]

Paul, you've probably got a duff micro-filter

http://btbusiness.custhelp.com/app/answ ... -telephone

and here

https://community.bt.com/t5/ADSL-Copper ... d-p/593550

 

[Robert]

Paul, you've probably got a duff micro-filter

Just what i was thinking

 

[old]

If we assume you have a number of telephone extensions remove the front of the line jack unit and plug the filter into the socket it uncovers how does it work then.

 

[Pinch]

Thanks for the input chaps and cheers for the links Rog - good info.

Strangely, this morning, the PC is behaving itself. But, this warning we keep getting about our system not being supported anymore. Is this something to feel concerned about? I know the firms have control and it's now a 'must' to upgrade for certain applications - I think this is more mobile phone related. A bit like building kitchen appliances to last just 5 years.

 

[RogerS]

Thanks for the input chaps and cheers for the links Rog - good info.

Strangely, this morning, the PC is behaving itself. But, this warning we keep getting about our system not being supported anymore. Is this something to feel concerned about? ....

Bottom line? Yes.

Any computer can potentially get malware (viruses, etc) due to hackers etc exploiting weaknesses in:

a) the underlying operating system (OS) ie XP, Vista

b) applications such as browsers, Word or Excel

c) relying on the bit of wetware between the ears suspending commonsense and installing (unknowingly) malware from an infected external source such as an application, BitTorrent stream or website.

Any decent anti-malware software should take care of (b) and (c) but you are reliant on the OS supplier (Microsoft in your case) for fixing (a). This is no longer the case for XP (dunno about Vista etc). So you have to take a view as to how many potential and unexploited weaknesses are there still to be found in XP and then exploited by malware. Simple answer - you don't know.

So what to do. You could upgrade (possibly - but depending on the spec of your PC) to a later version of Windows...then chase down all the drivers for your other programs and peripherals, then discover which ones are not available and so you end up having to buy another printer maybe. Who knows?

Or you could see the sense and throw away the PC and go and get a Mac!

or go down to Oak FL and give them a hard time

 

[Woodbloke]

or go down to Oak FL and give them a hard time

Best option by far :lol: - Rob

 

[RogerS]

I Googled Oak Furniture Land misleading and came across this dedicated Facebook site !!

 

[AndyP]

I Googled Oak Furniture Land misleading and came across this dedicated Facebook site !!

And not one complaint about the "no veneer in 'ere"

Somebody on trust pilot likes them
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.oa ... land.co.uk

 

[RogerS]

Trustpilot is hardly an endorsement since they route comments via the retailer. Bit like Rutlands customer comments...always good.

 

[AndyP]

Yeah I know. I would not go near them with a barge pole. The fact that so many people do is very sad but typical today. 3 or 4 generations ago people would save up and buy quality well made furniture and expect it to last a lifetime - I have some of it today bought by my grandparents. Today,too many people want something for a little more than nothing and do not have, nor want to to obtain IMO, the knowledge (via research) to know what is quality and how much you have to pay for it.

There is also an expectation within some households to replace furniture on a regular basis. So some are reluctant to buy stuff that they will inevitably got bored with.

Caveat emptor is also a phase that seems to have gone out of the window in the rush to buy something cheap. If the people who buy from the likes of OFL were a bit better educated they would struggle for business.

That's my two pennyworth anyway.

 

[Pinch]

Thanks for the info Peeps.

My PC showed the warning again this morning. Clicking on the link to 'learn more' - it reads like this:

Updates to Chrome platform support
Tuesday, November 10, 2015
Earlier this year, we announced that Google Chrome would continue support for Windows XP through the remainder of 2015. At that time, we strongly encouraged users on older, unsupported platforms such as Windows XP to update to a supported, secure operating system. Such older platforms are missing critical security updates and have a greater potential to be infected by viruses and malware.
Today, we’re announcing the end of Chrome’s support for Windows XP, as well as Windows Vista, and Mac OS X 10.6, 10.7, and 10.8, since these platforms are no longer actively supported by Microsoft and Apple. Starting April 2016, Chrome will continue to function on these platforms but will no longer receive updates and security fixes.
If you are still on one of these unsupported platforms, we encourage you to move to a newer operating system to ensure that you continue to receive the latest Chrome versions and features.
Posted by Marc Pawliger, Director of Engineering and Early Notifier

I think we are going to have to upgrade to a more recent operating system.

 

[Pinch]

PS: If you have a few minutes, read the blog entries below - although not for the faint hearted. :shock:

Reading between the lines, it seems Firefox might be a solution. There are many upset dudes in the blog who feel this whole campaign is just another way for the Government to create income. I've heard this before, especially with mobile phones. I don't have enough knowledge on this to cast judgement. Whichever, it's either an upgrade or give Firefox a go.

 

[RogerS]

PS: If you have a few minutes, read the blog entries below - although not for the faint hearted. :shock:

Reading between the lines, it seems Firefox might be a solution. There are many upset dudes in the blog who feel this whole campaign is just another way for the Government to create income. I've heard this before, especially with mobile phones. I don't have enough knowledge on this to cast judgement. Whichever, it's either an upgrade or give Firefox a go.

What blog?

Which XP Service Pack are you running? SP2 or SP3? (I have no idea how you can tell but maybe a PC guru can tell you). Firefox recommend SP3 as it allows you to run the latest version of Firefox - which implies the latest security patches etc.

 

[Rod]

Cannot see why the Government is involved but I've been using Firefox ever since it came out but now on Win 10

Rod

 

[Pinch]

Sorry Roger, I had to go to work.

Here's the link: https://chrome.googleblog.com/2015/11/u ... pport.html

I haven't a clue whether it's SP2 or 3. I downloaded and installed Firefox this morning and tonight, it's as slow as ever - painfully slow and frustrating, especially when I have work to get on with.

Rod, I don't know - taxes maybe. This is something I read on the Google blog - link above.

 

[Pinch]

PS: watch out for a Martina Vaslovik in the blog - she isn't messing around with her words!! :lol:

 

[RogerS]

I can't read anything other than the initial statement. Possibly because I've neutered a lot of what Google sneakily does behind the scenes and without as much as a by your leave.

But Paul you've given enough information....Government involvement? Such crass stupidity some people post on blogs.

 

[Deejay]

Morning Paul

I wouldn't like to connect to the internet with such an old OS. Ten years is a long time in computing terms.

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/tipstrick ... packxp.htm explains how to identify your SP.

You could try downloading a free Linux OS, some which I believe run Windows emulators. It might run succesfully on your existing hardware. It's a cheap option worth trying.

As far as the broadband problems go, have you tried a replacement filter as Roger suggested?

Plug it in to the back connection of your telphone master socket, as Old said, and that will ( or at least should) isolate all the internal wiring which might be causing problems.

What sort of speeds are you getting on your broadband? There is a tester here ...

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest ... nt=sidebar

Who is your ISP?

Cheers

Dave

 

[Pinch]

I can't read anything other than the initial statement. Possibly because I've neutered a lot of what Google sneakily does behind the scenes and without as much as a by your leave.

But Paul you've given enough information....Government involvement? Such crass stupidity some people post on blogs.

Cheers Roger and thanks for the input. We've been with Orange Broadband for a few years now. You would think they would send out new routers and filters every year - a way of looking after their customers, but they don't really care do they. This world is becoming more rediculous - receipts from retailers are getting more silly as well.

 

[Pinch]

Morning Paul

I wouldn't like to connect to the internet with such an old OS. Ten years is a long time in computing terms.

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/tipstrick ... packxp.htm explains how to identify your SP.

You could try downloading a free Linux OS, some which I believe run Windows emulators. It might run succesfully on your existing hardware. It's a cheap option worth trying.

As far as the broadband problems go, have you tried a replacement filter as Roger suggested?

Plug it in to the back connection of your telphone master socket, as Old said, and that will ( or at least should) isolate all the internal wiring which might be causing problems.

What sort of speeds are you getting on your broadband? There is a tester here ...

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest ... nt=sidebar

Who is your ISP?

Cheers

Dave

Cheers Dave,

I'll look into Linux. We're using Firefox right now and although it's slow, it's intermittant and right now, it's not too bad. Yes, I've tried changing the filter with a previous filter, but no real change. I've just mentioned to Roger (above) the providers should send out new filters to their existing customers every year shouldn't they? One would think so at least.

I thought we were with Orange, but our ISP is EE. I've just run the broadband speed check and the results are in... Download speed: 2.5Mbps - Upload: 0.8Mbps. I'm no expert, but this is terrible isn't it?

 

[RogerS]

Paul

Filters are passive devices and so no reason why they need replacing. Very rare for them to go faulty. Have you done what was recommended in one of the links I sent you....ie removing the front cover of the phone socket and plugging in directly?

Your issues are all line related and nothing to do with Firefox (unless your PC is really geriatric and/or you are looking at web ages with a lot of content/audio-visual etc).

2.5Mbps is not great. I would complain to Orange - who are absorbed into EE..Or EE if that is who you are with as your ISP. Good luck with that....you'll get a call-centre in India most likely...don't get me wrong, I love India and the people...just that tech support from there is haphazard at best.

Upload is good.

Which is why our ISP is Zen Internet. Their techies are very very good, by and large. They are able to look at the stats for our line and can tell immediately if it is a line problem or not or a problem with the router. Also how stable is your connection. EE techies - probably level 2 - should also be able to do that.

How much do you pay a month for your Orange (aka EE) broadband? When does it end? Ditch it. Go with Zen.

 

[Deejay]

Morning Paul

Download speed: 2.5Mbps - Upload: 0.8Mbps.

Do tests plugged into the front of the master socket and in the back socket with the front plate removed. That way you should see if any wiring in your house is reducing the bit rate. Also, if Openreach come out and find a fault on your wiring, they can charge for the visit.

If there is no difference, start to look at the incoming signal. You might be getting a slow rate simply due to the losses between you and the exchange, which roughly translates to the distance.

EE have a line speed checker her ...

https://broadband.ee.co.uk/#linechecker

which tells you what you 'might' or 'should' get. If you use their software, they can't really dispute the results.

If there is a substantial difference, there is some self help from EE here ...

http://ee.co.uk/help/contact-us#interne ... connection

If nothing there works, have a word with them.

I had a similar problem when I was in rural Devon. My line started to suffer from an intermittent telephone noise problem with a known good phone plugged into the back of the master socket. Openreach came out and couldn't reproduce it, but they changed the master socket, the dropwire from the pole, the pair to the cabinet and even the crimps in the circuit as a matter of course. My download speed doubled, admittedly only to about 2 M/Bit/s, but that was about the best the line would support at the time.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Pinch]

Paul

Filters are passive devices and so no reason why they need replacing. Very rare for them to go faulty. Have you done what was recommended in one of the links I sent you....ie removing the front cover of the phone socket and plugging in directly?

Your issues are all line related and nothing to do with Firefox (unless your PC is really geriatric and/or you are looking at web ages with a lot of content/audio-visual etc).

2.5Mbps is not great. I would complain to Orange - who are absorbed into EE..Or EE if that is who you are with as your ISP. Good luck with that....you'll get a call-centre in India most likely...don't get me wrong, I love India and the people...just that tech support from there is haphazard at best.

Upload is good.

Which is why our ISP is Zen Internet. Their techies are very very good, by and large. They are able to look at the stats for our line and can tell immediately if it is a line problem or not or a problem with the router. Also how stable is your connection. EE techies - probably level 2 - should also be able to do that.

How much do you pay a month for your Orange (aka EE) broadband? When does it end? Ditch it. Go with Zen.

Cheers Rog. No I didn't matey, mainly because we had an engineer out a couple of months and I watched what he did. He tried the test socket behind the front cover and he wasn't happy, so he went outside and stripped back the wires and rewired the box. He then tested it again and this time, he was happy suggesting all was now in good working order. After he'd gone, the internet was great, but this only lasted a few days.

I'm not sure if I look at web pages which have a lot of content. Everything I do look at all seems pretty much similar to one another in terms of content quantity. I'm on eBay quite a lot looking at classic vehicles. I go into YouTube a little bit and then there's the other stuff like my website, TWH2, photobucket (which is giving me lots of issues at the moment - in fact so is TWH2), and general browsing for materials etc when pricing work. Mrs P uses Facebook quite a lot and then here general stuff. I also use Google Maps quite a lot. That's about it.

I've spoken to Orange/EE tech dept a couple of times with this problem and they've done something their end which has improved out internet performance, but it only lasts for a short time - few days maybe. I pay around £30 for the broadband which obviously includes the phone use as well. Contract expires in February. I didn't go elsewhere last time round (recently) because the engineer told me the exchange was being moved into the village very soon and this will make a big difference. I've since learnt it was moved over a year ago. To be honest, Mrs P uses the internet more than me and my reactions in looking for answers has mainly come from her gentle and consistent hints of...... nagging!! Bless :lol: I'm a bit of a laid back in my own world most of the time sort of chap. But, when it internet isn't doing what you want it to do, it is pretty annoying.

 

[Pinch]

Morning Paul

Download speed: 2.5Mbps - Upload: 0.8Mbps.

Do tests plugged into the front of the master socket and in the back socket with the front plate removed. That way you should see if any wiring in your house is reducing the bit rate. Also, if Openreach come out and find a fault on your wiring, they can charge for the visit.

If there is no difference, start to look at the incoming signal. You might be getting a slow rate simply due to the losses between you and the exchange, which roughly translates to the distance.

EE have a line speed checker her ...

https://broadband.ee.co.uk/#linechecker

which tells you what you 'might' or 'should' get. If you use their software, they can't really dispute the results.

If there is a substantial difference, there is some self help from EE here ...

http://ee.co.uk/help/contact-us#interne ... connection

If nothing there works, have a word with them.

I had a similar problem when I was in rural Devon. My line started to suffer from an intermittent telephone noise problem with a known good phone plugged into the back of the master socket. Openreach came out and couldn't reproduce it, but they changed the master socket, the dropwire from the pole, the pair to the cabinet and even the crimps in the circuit as a matter of course. My download speed doubled, admittedly only to about 2 M/Bit/s, but that was about the best the line would support at the time.

Cheers

Dave

Thanks again Dave.

It's just taken my pc over a minute to open this page from clicking the 'quote' button.

I just mentioned to Rog about an engineer who came out a couple of months ago. He rewired the external box and then reckoned all will be fine.

The exchange is apparently in the village now, but until then, it was a few miles down the road away from the village. There's definitely a new looking green box in the village, but I don't know what to believe. Another engineer said last year (can't remember when) the subcontract cable fitters made a hash with all the joints and this was allowing water in, creating all sorts of problems.

Here's a diagram of our set up. Can anyone see any potential problems with this? The engineer reckoned it might make a tiny difference in performance, but nothing to get too upset about.

 

[RogerS]

You need to connect into the master socket. At least try and take the PC down there, plug it in and do some speed checks.

But it also sounds as if you have issues with the line/exchange. You need to lean on Orange as they have the contract with Openreach to deliver a service to them that they then provide you.

 

[Rod]

You should be able to insert your telephone number into the BT line checker to find what speed they reckon you should be receiving.
Ours used to be really bad, similar to yours but most of our village was upgraded a few years ago. BT reckon I should get 70 but we usually get 40 download 30 upload. We have aluminium cables from the box to our house which looses some speed.
It makes using the Internet a much pleasanter experience.

Rod

 

[Pinch]

Okay chaps, thanks again. I'll set the PC up on the dining table tonight when I return home from work and plug her into the master socket.

It's amazing, this morning, the internet is almost instantaneous. Are there high and low spots with interent performance when the rest of the world is using and not using the internet?

 

[old]

The phone/data line at the exchange has a learning function and monitors the data if its impeded in any way it reduces the data speed to give a reliable service this speed can be raised by your service provider but the equipment will bring it down if its not happy.Bad cable and joints and interference will cause this .Because of the history of this line you need to ask for a new pair to the exchange .If superfast is available this could cure it as the data transmission is done in a different/better way .One other thing to check is noise on the line just dial a single number and listen until the equip. throws you off and repeat at different times if its noisy it adds to your request for a new pair this check should be done from the master jack front face removed then from the end of the extension lead.

 

[RogerS]

.....
It's amazing, this morning, the internet is almost instantaneous. Are there high and low spots with interent performance when the rest of the world is using and not using the internet?

It can happen. You can also get contention which means effectively that you and others around you are sharing the available bandwidth feeding the box from your exchange. So if you've got a load of kids in other houses downloading porn and playing online games then that will hammer the bandwidth.

And the internet itself can throw a wobbler particularly if, as happens all the time, you've got cretins/idiots/hackers/other states trying out cyber attacks on the infrastructure, websites, you-name-it. One of the most common forms of attack is called DDoS (distributed denial of service) where you get an army of botnets (I'll explain what they are in a moment) all making calls on the same website or DNS servers etc at the same time with an intensity that the target is unable to cope and crashes. Botnets are created by lazy, ignorant people not bothering to keep their PCs fully-protected against malware, the hackers can then inject malware into these PCs and start running the malware to carry out the DDoS. Which is why I firmly believe that anyone getting a virus on their PC should have it physically taken away from them, cleaned up and given to a deserving cause. Thing is that they are now targetting mobile phones to run these botnets and is a bloody good reason to use an iPhone since Apple's walled garden is much, much harder to inject dodgy software into (although it does happen). As opposed to the Wild West called Android.

But let's proceed steadily with your problem and not introduce any unnecessary hares running until we have proved your line and indoor wiring. Your telephone line...how does it get to your house? Reason for asking is that my sister used to have a lot of bother living where she did and found the telephone line dangling between poles and dipping into water.

 

[Deejay]

Morning Paul

Are there high and low spots with interent performance when the rest of the world is using and not using the internet?

There is a process known as contention, whereby more than one circuit shares the available bandwidth. If your speed varies over the day, it might be the spotty oik round the corner playing war games or downloading stuff. In Devon, my bandwidth used to drop noticeably when the schools were on holiday. I think in your case it's more likely to be congestion in the network EE rent from BT or the losses in the line from your house back to the exchange. Try doing tests at different times during the day.

Stick with it and save the results. It would be nice if you didn't have to build a case to present to EE, but in reality, you do.

Cheers

Dave

 

[RogerS]

Morning Paul

Are there high and low spots with interent performance when the rest of the world is using and not using the internet?

There is a process known as contention, whereby more than one circuit shares the available bandwidth. If your speed varies over the day, it might be the spotty oik round the corner playing war games or downloading stuff. In Devon, my bandwidth used to drop noticeably when the schools were on holiday. I think in your case it's more likely to be congestion in the network EE rent from BT or the losses in the line from your house back to the exchange. Try doing tests at different times during the day.

Stick with it and save the results. It would be nice if you didn't have to build a case to present to EE, but in reality, you do.

Cheers

Dave

There's an echo in here.

 

[Deejay]

Morning Roger

There's an echo in here.

It happens when you get interrupted in the middle of posting

Cheers

Dave

 

[old]

Update :- BT quiet line test. dial 17070 then 2 to listen to your line for noise.

Go to http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/ click yes for BT speed test

both tests to be from Lju and end of extension to prove internal wiring.and provide solid info to your provider.

see my profile.

 

[Pinch]

Hello chaps. My PC is now downstairs and plugged into the master socket. I've browsed the internet with the router plugged into the front of the socket, then tested it. I then tried the same plugged into the socket behind the front cover.

Here are the results:

Front cover - Download 2.1, upload 0.8

Back socket - Download 2.0, upload 0.8

I then tried a few more tests with 1 minute intervals; D- 2.6 U- 0.7; D- 1.4 U-0.8; D-1.9 U-0.8

Not sure if this means anything, but there isn't much difference to when the PC is plugged in upstairs.

I've also tried contacting EE again and their office shuts at 8pm :x

But, the pages are opening faster, eg; I've been experiencing problems when opening pages on the forum, but down here, they are opening quicker than upstairs in the study.

 

[Pinch]

In fact, forget the last bit of my last post. I've just clicked on a page and it took ages to open.

 

[Deejay]

Morning Paul

The similarity between speeds upstairs and downstairs implies that your internal wiring isn't making much difference, which is good.

How far are you from the exchange (which is at DT10 0BB, according to Samknows)? In Devon I was about 4Km away and the best I ever got was about 2 MBit/S.

The fact that pages load at different speeds at different times suggests to me that there are problems within the network. EE will rent capacity from BT wholesale. To increase that capacity will cost money, so they will try and avoid doing that even if their customers suffer.

Fibre to the cabinet is available to some parts of your exchange area. There is a checker here ...

https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/ad ... dslchecker

If you can get FTTC it might make EE a bit keener to sort out your case.

Old made a good point about circuits resetting after a fault condition. If, say you unplugged your router, when you reconnected it, the system would start at a low bit rate and slowly build up to a speed where the circuit became unstable and then slow down a bit to give a reliable signal. This could take up to ten days. Ask EE if this applies to you. There will be an event log saved somewhere in your router with the relevant information for EE to look at.

Keep at it.

Cheers

Dave

PS I wonder if anyone else has replied whilst I've been typing?